MR SIPHO: Mr Chairman, Xolani Tsotetsi, his application is on page 160 of the papers. His evidence was dealt with on page 241 of the trial record, of the judgement rather.
XOLANI BRAVEMAN TSOTETSI: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Sipho?
EXAMINATION BY MR SIPHO: Thank you. Mr Tsotetsi, how old are you?
MR TSOTETSI: 28.
MR SIPHO: During 1991, where did you live?
MR TSOTETSI: At Nhlalagahle township in Greytown.
MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know the deceased in this case?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I know her.
MR SIPHO: What was her name?
MR TSOTETSI: Mxquso Victoria Mthembu.
MR SIPHO: Okay, now you are aware that she was killed on the 28th of September 1991.
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I am aware.
MR SIPHO: Did you take part in the killing of the deceased?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.
MR SIPHO: Okay, now on that day, were you travelling along in a kombi in the vicinity of the HLH compound?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR SIPHO: Okay, at about what time was this on that day?
MR TSOTETSI: About quarter to three in the afternoon.
MR SIPHO: What did you see as you drove passed the HLH compound?
MR TSOTETSI: As we drove near there, we saw the deceased inside the compound.
MR SIPHO: Now, you have heard the evidence of the witness who gave evidence before you.
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.
MR SIPHO: Do you agree with the evidence that he gave?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I do.
MR SIPHO: And you would agree then that the HLH compound was inhabited by members of Inkatha Freedom Party?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I agree.
MR SIPHO: The members, the people of the township where you lived, were members of the ANC?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR SIPHO: Okay. Was it normal for people from the township to go and visit people at the compound?
MR TSOTETSI: No, it was not because of the situation in the township.
MR SIPHO: Okay, how did you feel about having seen the deceased at the compound?
MR TSOTETSI: I did not feel good about it because I knew her to be one of our members.
MR SIPHO: Okay. As far as you were concerned, her presence at that compound, what did it mean to you?
MR TSOTETSI: We were in one organisation. Her presence being there, did not feel good to me, I wondered what she was doing there, it actually gave me a different picture.
MR SIPHO: Okay. Did you then confront the deceased at some later point that day?
MR TSOTETSI: No, I did not approach her.
MR SIPHO: Okay, were you in the company of certain other people at the time when the deceased was assaulted?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I was.
MR SIPHO: Who were the other people?
MR TSOTETSI: The people who are here, as well as (indistinct) and Khanyile.
MR SIPHO: When you refer to people who are here, do you mean all the other applicants?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR SIPHO: Okay. What did you do to the deceased, if anything at all?
MR TSOTETSI: I also partook in assaulting her and we then took her to Mr Msolo's home.
MR SIPHO: Okay. Is it true that the deceased made a certain confession to you and to the other people that were present there?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, she did.
MR SIPHO: What was the gist of that confession?
MR TSOTETSI: She confessed that she was an informer. She would actually take whatever we were doing, and report it to the IFP and also was in contact with the police.
MR SIPHO: Okay. Were you also present at the home of Mr Msolo?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I was there.
MR SIPHO: Who is Mr Msolo?
MR TSOTETSI: He was the Chairperson of the ANC in the township.
MR SIPHO: Did you also take part in stabbing the deceased later that evening?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I did.
MR SIPHO: What exactly did you do?
MR TSOTETSI: I stabbed her.
MR SIPHO: Do you know how many times you stabbed her?
MR TSOTETSI: I do not remember.
MR SIPHO: Okay. Is it true that each and every one of the applicants here, took turns in stabbing her?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, that is the truth, we were all there.
MR SIPHO: Okay, why was it necessary for everyone to stab her?
MR TSOTETSI: We had started this all together, and we had to finish it together.
MR SIPHO: During that time, well, you have always been a member of the ANC, is that so?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know for how long you had been a member of the ANC at the time of the commission of this offence?
MR TSOTETSI: I wouldn't be able to remember quite well, but from the time that I was born and grew up in the township, I have always been an ANC member.
MR SIPHO: Now, when you gave your evidence in the trial court, did you readily concede that you were a member of the ANC?
MR TSOTETSI: No, I did not.
MR SIPHO: Is it true that the Judge found that you were very evasive when it came to giving information about the ANC?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIPHO: For the record, I refer to page 242 of the judgement.
Why were you evasive about it, why didn't you simply say that you were a member of the ANC?
MR TSOTETSI: At that time, I believed that white people were prejudiced against the ANC. That is why I did not admit it at court.
MR SIPHO: Okay, do you know how members of the IFP would have reacted had you made an admission that you in fact killed the deceased, whilst you were a member of the ANC?
MR TSOTETSI: No.
MR SIPHO: Okay, in all other respects, do you confirm the evidence that was given by Mr Mhlambo?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I do.
MR SIPHO: Mr Chairman and Committee members, I don't intend to get into repeating everything that was said by the other witnesses, I have just covered certain specific areas. I intend to leave his evidence at that.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIPHO
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Sipho. Ms Thabete, do you have any questions to ask the witness?
MS THABETE: No Mr Chair.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS THABETE
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax? Sorry, there is no re-examination obviously. Mr Lax?
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SIPHO
MR LAX: Chairperson, if you will just give me a moment, maybe Mr Sibanyoni can carry on. There is one thing I just want to check up with my notes.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibanyoni, do you have any questions?
MR SIBANYONI: Thank you Mr Chairperson, I do not have any questions for this applicant.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Tsotetsi, are you still serving your term of imprisonment or have you been released?
MR TSOTETSI: No, I have been released.
CHAIRPERSON: Was that also during August of this year?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Did you have a Self Defence Unit there in that township?
MR TSOTETSI: No. We were just the people responsible for protecting the community, but there was no unit.
CHAIRPERSON: Is Mr Msolo still alive?
MR TSOTETSI: No, he is deceased.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax?
MR LAX: Thank you Chairperson, you alluded to the one area that was worrying me, I just wanted to check the form. If you look at page 160, which is the translation of your application form, perhaps to be fair to you, one would also look at page 149, which is the Zulu version of your form, at the answer to paragraph 6(b), you say that then I was in the Self Defence Unit.
You have just told us there was no Self Defence Unit. Why did you write that in your form, or why did you give that answer in your form? What did you mean by that answer?
MR TSOTETSI: I meant that I was a member of the ANC who was acting under the guidelines of the ANC.
MR LAX: But you know what an SDU is, you have heard of the term before?
MR TSOTETSI: I am not very conversant about what they are.
MR LAX: Why is it written in your form then?
MR TSOTETSI: I thought that as people who were protecting the community, that was part of what the SDU was.
MR LAX: You see in September 1991, there would have been SDU's in Greytown, in Nhlalagahle and all sorts of places. The call to form the SDU's happened in the middle of 1990.
There would have been an organised SDU in that area, but you don't know anything about that?
MR TSOTETSI: I would not disagree with that. I was a member of the ANC.
MR LAX: What structures were you a member of before the ANC was unbanned?
MR TSOTETSI: I was a member of the ANC because in the township, it was an ANC area, but I did not have much knowledge about other organisations.
MR LAX: You see until February 1990, the ANC did not operate above ground in this country. There were other structures that were there in place of the ANC. You don't know what structures those were? You weren't a member of them?
MR TSOTETSI: It was the UDF.
MR LAX: Yes, so what structure of the UDF were you part of?
MR TSOTETSI: I was a member or follower of the organisation that existed in the township at the time.
MR LAX: Yes, I am asking you what was that structure?
MR TSOTETSI: At the time that I acquired political knowledge, it was the ANC that was prominent. So that is the organisation that I joined.
MR LAX: You see there would have been a Nhlalagahle Youth Congress that was formed. Youth Congresses were formed in the 1980's in all the townships, and I know for a fact that there was one in Nhlalagahle. You weren't part of that?
MR TSOTETSI: I will say that I was because whatever happened or took place in the township, I was in line with. I did not dispute whatever was happening, I always cooperated.
CHAIRPERSON: Did you attend meetings, gatherings of the Youth Congress?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR LAX: You see, lots of people will say they were members of this or that structure, but in reality they simply lived in a place where the predominant value was that of UDF or Inkatha or AZAPO or whatever.
Because that was the dominant culture, they simply subscribed to that. They didn't actually joined structures per se, do you understand what I am saying?
As opposed to that, there were people who definitely joined structures, who were part of youth movements, were part of civics, who were part of church organisations, that were all affiliated to the UDF.
From your evidence, it is clear to me you weren't part of any one of those structures? That doesn't mean you didn't support the UDF or the ANC for that matter. Do you see what I am saying to you?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR LAX: Now you are here to be frank with us.
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR LAX: So when we ask you questions about your political affiliation, you must be honest with us. If you weren't a member of a structure, it is better that you tell us that. Do you understand?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, I do.
MR LAX: No further questions Mr Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Sipho, any questions arising out of questions put by the panel?
FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR SIPHO: Yes, thank you. Although you may not have been part of any specific structure of the ANC, do you know what the attitude of members of the ANC would have been to members of the Inkatha Freedom Party?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes.
MR SIPHO: What was it, a close friendly relationship or was it a hostile one?
MR TSOTETSI: There was no friendship between the two.
MR SIPHO: And as such, would it have been acceptable for ANC members to be seen in the company of IFP members?
MR TSOTETSI: No.
MR SIPHO: And the deceased in this case, was an ANC member who had been seen in the IFP camp, is that not so?
MR TSOTETSI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIPHO: And it is this that motivated the events of that day? Is that right?
MR TSOTETSI: That is correct.
MR SIPHO: I've got no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIPHO
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Thabete, any questions arising?
MS THABETE: No questions Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS THABETE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Tsotetsi, that concludes your testimony, you may stand down. Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED: .
