CHAIRPERSON: Mr Sibeko?
MR SIBEKO: Mr Chairman, the next applicant is Mr Fanekaya Herman Marhinqi. His application is on page 243.
CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, Sir. You must please excuse me, I wouldn't do any justice to your surname. My colleague has tried to give me a crash course in pronouncing it but I'm not going to try and do that. Do you hear me over the headphones?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, I can hear.
CHAIRPERSON: Won't you please stand and give your full names for the record please?
FANEKAYA HERMAN MARHINQI: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may sit down.
MR SIBEKO: May I proceed, Mr Chairman?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do.
EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO: Mr Marhinqi, you have also made an application for amnesty, is that correct?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Were you also a member of the Self Defence Unit, Lusaka-A?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: When did you join the unit, Sir?
MR MARHINQI: It was in 1993.
MR SIBEKO: Who was your commander?
MR MARHINQI: Mosa Msimango was my commander.
MR SIBEKO: Were you also involved in the incidents of violence that we have heard about throughout the applications?
MR MARHINQI: Yes.
MR SIBEKO: Do you mind telling us about those that you were involved in personally?
MR MARHINQI: Yes.
MR SIBEKO: Proceed.
MR MARHINQI: First of all I took part in trying to protect the community from the attacks that were launched by the IFP members.
MR SIBEKO: What did you do specifically in the defence of your community? What role, what did you do?
MR MARHINQI: What I did, I was requested to be among the other people who would organise firearms. The community would meet and collect some money and thereafter the money would be given to a certain gentleman, there was a name, maybe that person was a treasurer or something, and after that he would give me that money so that I can go and organise the firearms at Polla Park. That is one of the things that I did at first.
MR SIBEKO: Before you proceed, Sir, the meeting that you are referring to where contributions were made by the members of the public, is it the same meeting that we heard about from the members of the Committee of Seven?
MR MARHINQI: Will you please repeat the question, Sir?
MR SIBEKO: The meeting wherein contributions were made by the members of the community so that arms could be bought, is it the same meeting that we heard of from the members of the Committee of Seven, that is the Committee of Seven of Lusaka? Is it one and the same meeting or is it a different meeting?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: It's the same meeting?
MR MARHINQI: Yes.
MR SIBEKO: Now you accepted the responsibility of going out to buy arms, did you do that and if so, whom did you buy those arms from and where?
MR MARHINQI: I would buy them at Polla Park from one guy named John.
MR SIBEKO: How many arms did you personally buy from the said John and where did you take those arms to?
MR MARHINQI: I bought three firearms.
MR SIBEKO: Were they pistols, revolvers, AK47s?
MR MARHINQI: AK47 rifles.
MR SIBEKO: In fact from Polla Park where did you take those AK47s to?
MR MARHINQI: I brought them to the township and I gave them to one of them whose name was Carlson.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, would the interpreter just repeat that, there was a disturbance over the headphone.
MR MARHINQI: I brought them to the township and I handed them over to a gentleman called Carlson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may proceed.
MR SIBEKO: Now you say you gave those arms to Carlson, do you mean Carlson Dlamini who has just testified?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Now would you be in a position to remember exactly when you bought these arms, was in 1993, 1994, when exactly?
MR MARHINQI: If I'm not mistaken I think it was in 1993.
MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to remember whether it was early in the year, mid-year or later in the year 1993?
MR MARHINQI: I think it was mid-year. Although I cannot remember the exact month, but I think it was mid-year.
MR SIBEKO: Alright, you bought three AK47s which you gave over to Carlson, what else did you do as a member of the Self Defence Unit?
MR MARHINQI: One of the things I did was to be in possession of AK47 and I also took part in trying to protect the community during attacks that were launched by the members of IFP from Buthelezi and Mshayazafe.
MR SIBEKO: Will I be correct to say that in your involvement in the two incidents, you used the AK47 against the opposition, in that you fired shots?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is true.
MR SIBEKO: Will I be correct to assume - will I be correct to say that as a result of your shooting there could be a large number of people who might have died or got injured?
MR MARHINQI: That is an undeniable truth.
MR SIBEKO: Are you in a position to tell us whether you know those people that you might have injured or killed?
MR MARHINQI: I don't know their names.
MR SIBEKO: What happened to the AK47 that you used during your involvement in the Self Defence Unit?
MR MARHINQI: After the violence had subsided we handed over the arms to Carlson and then he further handed them over to Ephraim Mzondo. One evening the police came and they took the arms.
MR SIBEKO: Is there any other incident which you would want us to know about, wherein you were involved personally?
MR MARHINQI: There's nothing else except those that I've just mentioned.
MR SIBEKO: At the time you went to look or you went to buy these arms, you knew that they were unlawful, in fact your conduct was unlawful? Did you know that, Sir?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, I do.
MR SIBEKO: Did you also know that the said arms were dangerous in that they could, a person could be killed or injured when it is used against that person?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, I knew that.
MR SIBEKO: Will I be correct to say that that is the reason why you are applying for amnesty?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Will I also be correct to say that you are also applying for amnesty in relation to the activities that you were involved in in Mshayazafe and Buthelezi?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
MR SIBEKO: Thank you, Mr Chairman, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR SIBEKO
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Questions?
ADV STEENKAMP: No questions, thank you, Sir.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP
CHAIRPERSON: Panel?
You also knew that the firearms that you had bought were to be used in this fight that was taking place in the township, in Thokoza?
MR MARHINQI: Yes, that is correct.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Sibeko, re-examination?
MR SIBEKO: None, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SIBEKO
CHAIRPERSON: Sir, thank you very much, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED
CHAIRPERSON: We will adjourn for tea.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
