CHAIRPERSON: Good morning. It's Monday the 26th of June 2000. We're about to start the hearing in the KwaZulu Natal Province, sitting at the Pinetown offices. The Panel consists of myself, Chris de Jager, Adv Sigodi and Mr Lax. The Evidence Leader is Ramula Patel. Could the representatives of the other parties please put themselves on record.
MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson. I'm Danny Berger, I'm instructed by Mr Eric van den Berg, of the firm Bell Dewar and Hall in Johannesburg and we represent the three applicants today, Mr Ismail, Mr Saloojee and Mr Rohan.
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel, could you kindly put on record what the position of the interested parties and the victims are.
MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson. The victims that we have managed to trace have all indicated that they will not be attending the hearing. An ad was in fact placed for the victims in two out of the four incidents that we are about to hear. The one incident there in fact no victims and the final incident, well it's not an incident, but it's an application for possession of firearms. So as it stands today, unfortunately no-one is going to be present out of the victims.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Right, we'll see during the hearing whether we could assist in anything there. Mr Berger.
MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson. As I indicated in chambers, we propose to lead the applicants in the following order: Mr Rohan, followed by Mr Saloojee, followed by Mr Ismail.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR BERGER: Before I call Mr Rohan, I beg leave to hand up a statement which Mr Rohan will be reading from. We've prepared copies for the Committee. My learned friend, does she have a copy?
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Berger, before we start could we get clarity on exactly what instances you'll be asking amnesty for? Am I correct in saying, if we look at page 40, you're applying for count 8?
MR BERGER: Chairperson, we're applying for a number of counts. We're applying for the counts - in relation to Mr Rohan, we're applying for the counts on which he was found guilty.
CHAIRPERSON: That's counts 8, 13, 18, 20 ...
MR BERGER: Chairperson, if you have a look at page 130 of the bundle, you will see in the judgment of the Court, at line 22 the Court said
"To sum up. On counts 8 and 13 the accused is convicted of sabotage in contravention of Section 54(3) of Act 74/82."
so that's 8 and 13. Then on count 20 the accused is convicted of wilfully causing an explosion. On count 25 the accused is convicted as charged of possession of handgrenades and arms.
CHAIRPERSON: That's correct.
MR BERGER: On count 27 the accused is convicted as charged of possession of machine guns or machine rifles. On count 28 the accused is convicted as charged of possession of firearms. On count 29 the accused is convicted as charged of possession of ammunition. On the remaining counts, they're all set out, the accused if found NOT GUILTY and discharged.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan is not applying for amnesty for any of the counts on which he was found NOT GUILTY.
CHAIRPERSON: And he's not applying for any further instances?
MR BERGER: No further instances either.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, then it's clear.
MR BERGER: Could we mark the statement of Mr Rohan, Exhibit A.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you.
MR BERGER: And if Mr Rohan could be sworn in.
CHAIRPERSON: Will he be giving evidence in English?
MR BERGER: In English, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Your full names please.
MOHAMMED RAFIQ ROHAN: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr Rohan, you have a bundle of documents in front of you, I'd like you please to turn to page 1 of the bundle. Now you'll see the bundle is paginated, do you confirm that the document from page 1 through to page 7 of the bundle, is your application for amnesty?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I do.
MR BERGER: Now the acts for which you seek amnesty are set out at page 2, paragraph 9(a)((1). There are four acts
(a) The placing of the limpet mine at the Ridge Road Radio Headquarters;
(b) The bomb explosion at Natal Command;
(c) The bomb blast at CR Swart and;
(d) The illegal possession of arms and ammunition.
Do you confirm that those are the only acts, and obviously all acts incidental to those acts, but those are the only acts for which you seek amnesty?
MR ROHAN: Yes, that's correct.
MR BERGER: And do you confirm also that those are the acts for which you were convicted?
MR ROHAN: That's correct, yes.
MR BERGER: Alright. Now is it also correct that you prepared a statement, Exhibit A?
MR ROHAN: Yes.
MR BERGER: I'd like you please to turn to Exhibit A and we'll take the Committee through it and we can stop at appropriate points and add where necessary.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry Mr Berger, I think (c)
"The South African Police Headquarters, CR Swart"
that would be count 18, if I'm not mistaken and he was found NOT GUILTY on count 18, so ... Isn't that count 18?
MR BERGER: Chairperson, if you have a look at count ...(intervention)
CHAIRPERSON: Oh I see it's as a separate ...
MR BERGER: Count 20.
CHAIRPERSON: Count 20 is a separate count to count 18?
MR BERGER: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: So count 20 is dealing with that one. Thank you.
MR BERGER: Chairperson, what happened was there were a lot of counts that constituted duplication of charges and it's the attempted murder charges of which he was found NOT GUILTY.
Mr Rohan, reverting back to your statement, if you could read it into the record.
MR ROHAN
"I am presently employed by the Sowetan newspaper as its Political Editor. During October 1988 and whilst I was a journalist with The Post newspaper in Durban, I accompanied a delegation that was to meet with representatives of the ANC in Lusaka. The delegation was made up of members of the Transvaal Indian Congress and the Natal Indian Congress.
Whilst I was in Lusaka covering the story of the meeting, I met Aboobaker Ismail who was known as MK Rashid, at the time the ANC's Chief of Ordinance. As a result of my meeting with Rashid, I agreed to work for the ANC. Although Rashid wanted me to assist in Ordinance, I wished to be deployed operationally. Rashid and I agreed that I would return to South Africa and that if I still wished to participate in the armed struggle, we would arrange a further meeting."
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, let me stop you there. Why was it that you wished to be deployed operationally rather than in the Ordinance section?
MR ROHAN: It was a personal decision that I took. It was just something that I wanted to - I was totally committed to the struggle against apartheid and this for me would be the ultimate example, or commitment of my contribution to the struggle. I wanted to rather go the route of the armed struggle, rather than working in Ordinance.
MR BERGER: Right.
MR ROHAN
"Although it was my chosen profession to be a journalist, I often felt that I was not doing enough in the struggle for liberation. My view was that the armed struggle was necessary because of the Military's role in maintaining apartheid. By striking at the Military, I would be striking at the heart of the apartheid State.
When Rashid contacted me approximately two weeks later, I informed him that I was ready and willing to be deployed operationally for the ANC. I accordingly met with Rashid in Harare, shortly thereafter. Rashid introduced me to a person called Kelvin Khan. I subsequently learnt that Kelvin Khan is Riaz Saloojee.
Over a period of time I received intensive basic training from Kelvin. I went to Zimbabwe on several occasions, with my stays there ranging from several days to a week at a time. Kelvin trained me in the use of explosives, including limpet mines, Makarov pistols and AK47s. I also received political education on the policy of the ANC and the broad guidelines of the armed struggle, as well as training in military combat work, i.e. how to operate in an underground military environment."
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, let me stop you there. How was it possible for you to keep on leaving the country, going to Zimbabwe, coming back? You were going there for training and yet you managed - am I correct, you managed to leave and enter South Africa legally at that time.
MR ROHAN: Yes, it was actually easy, it was part of my work. Being a political reporter meant I travelled a lot, so it was very easy for me to slip in and out of the country quite legally, working on a story.
MR BERGER: So your cover was that you were doing stories on what was happening in Zimbabwe at the time?
MR ROHAN: That's correct, yes.
"I told Kelvin that I was only prepared to be involved in operations that were directed against Security Force targets and personnel. I did however accept the possibility that civilians might be injured or killed as a result of my operations and informed Kelvin accordingly. It was also agreed that I would operate on my own."
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, you say in paragraph 7 that you received political education on the policy of the ANC, but at the time, is it correct that you were a political reporter?
MR ROHAN: That's correct, yes.
MR BERGER: And your political knowledge, your political understanding, how developed was it at that time?
MR ROHAN: I had a basic understanding of the political realities around the African National Congress, around all the other political parties as well. The training that I got from Kelvin was a lot more intense.
MR BERGER: And as far as paragraph 8 is concerned, you said that you wanted to be involved in operations which attacked military or, would I be correct to say Security Force targets?
MR ROHAN: Correct, yes.
MR BERGER: But you always foresaw the possibility, is that correct, that civilians might get injured or killed in your actions?
MR ROHAN: Yes, absolutely.
MR BERGER: And why were you prepared to reconcile yourself with that fact? Were you aware of any policy directives of the ANC in that regard?
MR ROHAN: Well the '85 Kabwe Conference of the ANC discussed the issue of civilians getting caught up in the crossfire and I had reconciled myself to that reality.
MR BERGER: So you were aware of the proceedings at Kabwe?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I was.
MR BERGER: Alright, please continue then with paragraph 9.
MR ROHAN
"During the training sessions with Kelvin, we discussed certain possible targets, including the Police Radio Headquarters in Ridge Road, the Natal Command and CR Swart Square. On the 28th of January 1989 I placed a limpet mine at the foot of the transformer of the Police Radio Headquarters in Ridge Road, Durban. According to the evidence at my trial, the limpet mine was discovered by the Police, moved into the road and detonated there. To the best of my knowledge there were no injuries."
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, before you go on, could you explain to the Committee how it worked with Mr Saloojee. Did you discuss all these targets at one go, in other words, before the 28th of January 1989, then come into the country - and as we go through your statement we'll see the various attacks that you carried out, or did you go back to Zimbabwe or communicate with Mr Saloojee between operations?
MR ROHAN: We communicated between operations.
MR BERGER: And how did you do that, did you go to Zimbabwe or did you communicate by other means?
MR ROHAN: Well I either went to Zimbabwe, or we did - we had a system of communication, using code language and stuff like that, through telephones.
MR BERGER: Alright. So the first attack we're talking about is paragraph 10.
MR ROHAN: Yes.
MR BERGER: Then paragraph 11?
MR ROHAN
"On the 10th of March 1989 and as a result of my work as a journalist, I had learnt that there was to be a military function at Natal Command. That day I placed a limpet mine and two square charges in a cooler bag and drove to Natal Command."
I just want to say here that there could be a difference in terms of the types of mines and explosives I used, it was so far back I can't remember the exact details.
MR BERGER: In relation to what? Are you saying that there could have been more than one limpet mine?
MR ROHAN: There could have been more and there could have been less, yes.
MR BERGER: Alright.
MR LAX: Sorry, could I just interpose for a moment.
Would you accept that the evidence at your trial is an accurate description of what was used? In other words, at your trial for example, in one instance it said you used two mini-limpet mines together with four charges of high explosive.
MR ROHAN: I guess that would be more accurate, yes.
MR LAX: So if that detail in contained in the transcript or at least in the judgment in your trial, you'd be happy to concede that that's an accurate description?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I would.
MR LAX: Thanks.
MR ROHAN
"That day I placed a limpet mine and two square charges in a cooler bag and drove to Natal Command. I parked the car across the road and walked to the premises. I placed the cooler bag under some shrubs next to the wall of the building in which the function was taking place. I set the device to explode 15 minutes later. Several people were injured in the explosion."
...(intervention)
ADV SIGODI: Sorry, just before you go on with that, you say that you got this information about this military function because of your work as a journalist?
MR ROHAN: That's right.
ADV SIGODI: And now the decision to place the limpet mine, did you communicate it with Kelvin, or did you communicate it with somebody before?
MR ROHAN: No, it was communicated with Kelvin.
ADV SIGODI: Thanks, I just wanted to confirm that.
MR BERGER: Before you attacked Natal Command, was Kelvin aware of your intention to carry out that attack?
MR ROHAN: Yes, we discussed it in detail.
MR BERGER: In your words could you describe how you went about the mines, how you actually got into Natal Command.
MR ROHAN: Well obviously I'd reconnoitred the place before I carried out the operation and when I decided - I knew the times when the function was taking place, I got to the area, again I reconnoitred it, parked my car across the road, got out of the car, took the cooler bag, walked to the front, well I had to jump over a very short fence, it wasn't a very high fence, I jumped over that fence. I had the cover of darkness as well. I've just got to say also that there were Army protecting the perimeter, but they had - I watched their movements as well and they had actually moved off. So at that particular moment there was nobody who could see the front of the building, so I walked over the fence, walked to the front of the building, I placed the cooler bag on the floor between the shrubs and I set the times for the limpet mine and I walked off.
MR BERGER: And the building against which you placed the mine, inside that building was where the function was being held?
MR ROHAN: Where the military function was taking place, yes.
"After the explosion at the Natal Command I intended to launch another attack on the base ..."
...(intervention)
MR BERGER: I'm sorry, before you go on, you said at the end of paragraph 11
"Several people were injured in the explosion"
how do you know that?
MR ROHAN: By reports that I got in the news afterwards.
MR BERGER: You say in your amnesty application that 17 people were injured.
MR ROHAN: That's correct, yes.
MR BERGER: Is that the detail that you got from the reports?
MR ROHAN: Well not necessarily, the detail came out in the court case.
MR BERGER: And you don't - do you accept the correctness of the evidence in that regard, that was placed before the Court?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I did.
"After the explosion at Natal Command I intended to launch another attack on the base. However, the area was by then too heavily guarded. Kelvin and I had also discussed CR Swart Square as a target in the event of Natal Command proving too risky. I accordingly planned to attack CR Swart Square. The attack was supposed to be my last operation. I had advised Kelvin that I was feeling the stress of operating alone. We had agreed that I would lay low for a while after the operation and reassess the situation.
I drover into the CR Swart complex near the male Police residences and placed a limpet mine and two square charges that had been packed into a kitbag. I primed the devices and got back into my car ..."
...(intervention)
MR BERGER: Again if I can interrupt you. Your reference here to a limpet mine and two square charges, if the evidence at the criminal trial shows different detail in relation to the charges, would you accept that the evidence at the trial is probably more accurate than your recollection now?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I would.
MR BERGER: Alright.
MR ROHAN
"As I was driving out of the premises two policemen driving in my direction saw me. They indicated that I should stop. Since I still had the pin from the limpet in my possession, I decided not to stop and sped away. They turned around and gave chase. During the chase I drove through a Police roadblock and was subsequently involved in an accident. I got out of my car and attempted to escape on foot. During the ensuing chase I was shot and subsequently captured."
MR BERGER: Could you just pause there and describe for the Committee where it was that - well, how was it that you were involved in an accident?
MR ROHAN: Well once we had left - once I came out of the building of the CR Swart Square, I drove - the police car gave chase, I drove around the block, there was a roadblock, I drove through the block heading towards central town ...(intervention)
MR BERGER: So you smashed through the roadblock?
MR ROHAN: ... and I smashed through the robot, yes.
MR BERGER: No, the roadblock.
MR ROHAN: Yes, I did.
MR BERGER: And then you got to a red robot?
MR ROHAN: I got - well I drove through a series of red robots down, I think it's Stanford Hill Road, towards central town and in all that time the police were behind me giving chase, firing shots. There wasn't too much traffic around that night. The police were shooting at me. In fact I recall at some stage that the back of the car, the car windows shattered as bullets went through them, but I continued driving through till we got to one of the main intersections. I can't remember the road, I think it was Ordinance Road, there was quite a lot of cars coming through, but I continued through that red robot and I smashed into the back of a car. I think my car somersaulted and I got out of the car and ...(intervention)
MR BERGER: And started running.
MR ROHAN: ... and started running and it was at that point that I got shot.
MR BERGER: Now at that time the bomb hadn't yet exploded?
MR ROHAN: No, it hadn't.
MR BERGER: And you continued running until you landed in a ditch, is that correct?
MR ROHAN: That's correct.
MR BERGER: Now that ditch is today where the Convention Centre is.
MR ROHAN: That's right, yes.
MR BERGER: Could you describe very briefly for the Committee what happened while you were lying in that ditch.
MR ROHAN: Well I just must say that I wasn't aware at that particular moment that I'd been shot, because when I got out of the car I was okay. I ran out of the car onto the pavement, onto a grass verge and then there was a hedge, but I realised that something was wrong because I felt that my body was very lopsided and I couldn't quite figure out what was going on. I fell through this hedge and I landed in a very shallow ditch, but the area that I landed in was covered, it's not as it is now, it had lots of shrubs and overgrown grass and stuff like that.
I landed in the ditch and then I tried to get up and I couldn't get up and I felt down at my leg and I found that my leg had been shot and it was - say a person's leg faces in that way, my leg was shot just below the ankle and the whole leg was broken in that direction and I was actually running on the bone. The bones of my leg had come out and I was dragging my leg behind me running into the bush and I fell down and that's why I couldn't get up.
MR BERGER: And so then you were lying in the ditch?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I was.
MR BERGER: And eventually, after a search, the police found you, is that correct?
MR ROHAN: Yes, it took a long time for them to eventually get to me. What happened was that I was laying in the ditch and there - I mean there were like literally hundreds of them that had arrived there as well, now they were under the impression - as I said the area was very overgrown, they were under the impression that I had gotten somewhere to the middle of this vacant land, but I was right under their noses because I could actually hear the operations they were giving to each other.
They lined the whole area up with police and police dogs and they swept the area first down. Before that they were firing shots into the bush, into the bushy area. I heard people screaming. I think there were actually vagrants staying in that area. I don't know what happened to them, but I did hear them screaming as the shots were being fired, but I lay still in the ditch and then they first went across, they swept the area with the dogs. In fact at one stage the dog stepped - the first sweep, the dog stepped on my side and they moved on to the end of the field and then they came back a second time, again sweeping and they were very close to each other, and this time the dog stepped on my face. Then they moved and I think they were going to come back for a third sweep and at that particular moment the bomb went off at CR Swart Square and it kind of created panic amongst them and most of them retreated but some of them stayed behind.
MR BERGER: Then eventually they found you.
MR ROHAN: Well I lay in the ditch for some while as they tried to search the area, trying to locate me. I realised also that - because of the condition that I was in, that my leg was bleeding quite profusely, I was getting weaker and weaker all the time and I realised then that if they don't catch me I was going to die, I was going to bleed to death, possibly.
So at some point, I think it was a couple of hours later because there weren't that many policemen around, there were a few vehicles parked and I could actually see them, and at some point there was a policeman who came to walk down the area where I was laying in the ditch and again he walked past because I heard the dog barking and then I realised at that point that it was a good time to actually give myself up so that I can at least get some kind of attention and not die where I was. Again, he moved past with the dog and they literally walked right past me and I started moaning and he turned round and he came back and he saw that I was lying there and the dog charged at me. Yeah, and that's how I got caught.
MR BERGER: Then after you'd been caught, there's an incident that you describe in your statement about a decision taken by some of the policemen there, to execute you.
MR ROHAN: Yeah, what happened, at the time when this policeman who came, the lone policeman who came with the dog, when he came up to me, when he spotted me lying there, he first asked me who I was and I gave him a false name, I said my name was Allan Jones. He asked me what I was doing there, I said well I was a victim of a hit and run car accident and I landed up in the ditch. He was uncertain, 'cause he was shining the torch in my face all the time. So what he did, I think at the same, in immediate succession he radioed in to the police and then he also radioed in to the hospital, or to some medical services. Within seconds the police were there on the spot. They came through the hedge. A lot of policemen remained on the other side of the hedge, about 20 of them I'd say, came to where I was laying and again the person who was in charge shone the torch in my face and asked me my name. I gave the same name, Allan Jones. He asked me what had happened to me, I gave him the same story that I was a victim of a hit and run accident.
But there's something I was saying here before we got to this point, is that whilst I - before I was found, I tried at some point to mobilise my leg, so that I could maybe get away. So what I'd done - but the bone was sort of sticking out, my leg was sort of - you're leg is that, my leg was down this way, the bone was sticking out but the flesh was very tight around the bone that was sticking out, so I was actually trying to pull my leg out and push it back into this broken bone. Well every time I did that I passed out, so at some point I decided what I was going to do was to take the shoelaces off my shoes, break a couple of branches of the trees surrounding me and try and create some kind of a splint to strengthen my leg and maybe I'll be able to get up and walk, but that didn't work. So when this policeman was asking me for my details, he shone the torch in my face and he was uncertain as to whom I was and then he shone the torch down to that part of my leg ...(intervention)
MR BERGER: To where the splint was?
MR ROHAN: To where the splint was, and he said - he said in Afrikaans "This they learn in the bush, this is our man. This is the man we are looking for." So that convinced him that I was the person they were looking for.
There was no violence or anything like that, but they sort of formed a caucus around me and they decided that - again they were discussing this in Afrikaans, they said that I would be taken in, I'd had expensive lawyers and I'd probably get a couple of years in prison and I'll get out. So they had taken a decision that they were going to execute me there on the spot. They took the decision that they were going to execute me, so all of the men that were on the side of the fence with me, stepped out and three of them stayed behind. Sorry, can I just ...
MR LAX: Do you want some water, Mr Rohan, there's some water next to you there.
MR ROHAN: So they took the decision that they're going to execute me - as I said, there were just now three of them and myself laying in the ditch, so - I know there was standing on this side of me and there was another one standing, I think, just behind me. I can't be exactly certain because more of the time I kept my - from that point on I sort of kept my eyes closed because I was expecting that this was it, that I'm going to die now. So the person who was going to carry out the operation, put the gun to my head and held the gun very close to my temple and he was about to pull the trigger and I could actually feel him pulling the trigger of the gun and at that point I think - because I told you earlier that the hospital services were contacted as well, and at that particular moment the ambulance sped up quite dramatically to the scene and shone its lights on this whole incident.
At that point I sensed that the person who was standing behind him, as he had the gun to my head he pushed the gun away and the bullet went off just in front of my face and I passed out at that point. I don't remember what happened after that.
MR BERGER: Subsequent to that you were detained under police guard in hospital.
MR ROHAN: That's right, yes.
MR BERGER: Ultimately you were charged in the High Court, then the Supreme Court. The Charge Sheet is in the bundle. And we've already discussed that there were a number of counts, many of which you were acquitted of and some of which you were found guilty of. I want to refer you to page 102 of the judgment, and you'll see there that the Judge lists - there's a whole list of arms and ammunition that was found at your residence.
MR ROHAN: Yes.
MR BERGER: Is it correct that you don't dispute any of the arms and ammunition that you were accused of having possessed during the trial?
MR ROHAN: No, I don't.
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan just very briefly, you were sentenced to a total of 15 years imprisonment, is that correct?
MR ROHAN: That's correct, yes.
MR BERGER: And during your evidence in mitigation you said that you were a member of the ANC and a member of MK and that - you were asked a question in fact: "Would you do these acts again, would you commit these acts again?" Do you remember what your response was?
MR ROHAN: I think I said that if the circumstances were the same as they were, yes I would.
MR BERGER: And if you were instructed to do so, you would?
MR ROHAN: If I was instructed to do so, yes.
MR BERGER: After conviction, where were you sent? Or after sentence I should say.
MR ROHAN: After sentence, the very next day I was sent to Robben Island and I served, I spent about a year on Robben Island and I was released under the Indemnity Act.
MR BERGER: Is it correct that you had to embark on a hunger strike before you were released?
MR ROHAN: That's right. I was with the very, very last group of political prisoners on Robben Island that was released. We had passed the cut-off date that they had set for the release of all political prisoners and there were a number of us who felt that - well, the rest of us were there for political reasons but for some reason the State wouldn't release us, so we embarked on that hunger strike on the 1st of May.
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, why is it that ...(intervention)
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, were you then granted indemnity?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I was.
CHAIRPERSON: When were you granted indemnity?
MR ROHAN: I don't have the exact date, I think I was released ...(intervention)
CHAIRPERSON: Round about.
MR ROHAN: ... round about the 20th of May 1991, I think it was.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR LAX: So that would have been under what was called at that stage, the Indemnity Act. There was a further Indemnity Act in '92, so it couldn't possibly be under that second set of legislation.
MR ROHAN: The first one.
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, why is it that you are applying for amnesty for the offences for which you were convicted?
MR ROHAN: For the simple reason that I want to have my record expunged from the record books.
MR BERGER: Your motives in carrying out these attacks, you're already told the Committee that you wanted to strike at the heard of the apartheid State, were there any other motives? Was there any financial motive, or any other personal motive that you had in mind when you joined MK and carried out these attacks?
MR ROHAN: No, there was none, none whatsoever. My motivation was purely me dedication to the struggle and that was it.
MR BERGER: Mr Rohan, is there anything else that you'd like to add at this point?
MR ROHAN: No.
MR BERGER: Thank you, Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR BERGER
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Patel, any questions?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, just one thing perhaps.
Mr Rohan, during the time of the planning of the attack at the Natal Command, were you aware that present at the party would be personnel who were not necessarily SADF members? Were you aware of the fact that their wives would be present at the party as well?
MR ROHAN: I don't think I was aware, I just knew that there was going to be a military function involving pretty high ranking Army personnel. I can't say that I was aware that they would have been with their wives as well.
MS PATEL: Okay. During your discussions with Mr Saloojee in preparation for this operation, did you take into account that persons other than SADF members, would in fact be injured or killed?
MR ROHAN: Yes, I did.
MS PATEL: And you reconciled yourself to that.
MR ROHAN: I reconciled myself to that, yes.
MS PATEL: And the same with the bombing at the CR Swart Police Station.
MR ROHAN: Yes, absolutely.
MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Lax.
MR LAX: Just one question. In essence this goes not to an essential part of our process at all, but there are no victims present here and very few of them have been able to be contacted, the actual people who were injured in some of these blasts and so on. How do you feel and would you have any message for those people? It's not a requirement of our statute that you show any remorse, so I'm not insisting on that at all, I just wondered as a human being, looking back, what you might feel about your participation in what affected those people.
MR ROHAN: Well all of it was unnecessary, in terms of that it was all a result of what apartheid did to the people in this country. Do I feel any remorse? Perhaps I do, but I'm not here to ask this Commission for forgiveness for what I did.
MR LAX: Thanks. I have no further questions, Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Berger, I don't suppose there's any re-examination?
MR BERGER: No re-examination, thank you Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR BERGER
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, you may stand down.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR BERGER: Chairperson, the next witness would be Mr Saloojee. We're just going to have to swop chairs.
