Amnesty Hearings

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman, I will then call my next applicant, Mr Dawid Brits. You will find his application in Volume 2, page 220.

DAWID JACOBUS BRITS: (sworn states)

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman, at the outset - I've also handed to the Committee and everybody present an annexure to the Amnesty Application which you will find on page 220. This is just setting out in detail supplementing the application, the handwritten application that you will find on page 220 and further.

CHAIRPERSON: 220(a).

EXAMINATION BY MR ROSSOUW: Thank you Mr Chairman.

Mr Brits, I refer you to page 220 of Volume 2, do you have that before you?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Brits, do you confirm the content thereof in as far as paragraph 1 - 6 is concerned?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Paragraph 7(a) were you an official or a supporter of any political organisation?

MR BRITS: I served the Government of the day.

MR ROSSOUW: Is it correct when I say that you also supported the National Party?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: So you were a supporter of the National Party. Do you confirm the contents of paragraph 8?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

CHAIRPERSON: Is it quite correct that if a policeman says I support the government of the day say he supports the party or is he saying I support the government of my country?

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman, that's why I asked whether he also supported the Nationalist Party, but there is a distinction.

Mr Brits, then with regard to your involvement in the Cosatu House bomb explosion you are requesting amnesty as set out in the annexure page 220(a) you request amnesty for your involvement in the bomb explosion and any damage to property and damage to Cosatu House as well as any offences arising from the evidence which you will give?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: It is common cause that the explosion took place in 1987 in Johannesburg?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: With reference to page 3 of annexure 220(a) there is the application of Willie Nortjè and you request that this be incorporated in your application in as far as the facts there fall within your personal knowledge, is that correct?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Regarding your own involvement in the operation you state that your order was received from Colonel de Kock. You also state that after the operation Brigadier Schoon was present at Vlakplaas and you inferred from that that the operation had enjoyed his approval?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You yourself was not tasked with any observation or gathering of information tasks before the operation but you do know about the observation that was carried out by means of helicopter as well as the photos that were taken?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also state that Colonel de Kock expressly stated it to you that there should be no loss of life during this operation

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: And during the intelligence sessions you also became aware of the existence of the printing press in the building?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: And that the printing press should be rendered unusable and that the activities of COSATU should be halted?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You say that your specific task with regard to the operation would be to keep the area surrounding the building clean along with other members from Vlakplaas so that anybody who could possibly be on the street could be removed and not be injured as a result of the explosion?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also mention on page 5 of the affidavit that you can remember the names of the person who were involved?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You state that on the particular evening you travelled in a mini bus from Vlakplaas to Johannesburg, can you remember that a gathering was held in Honeydew?

MR BRITS: No.

MR ROSSOUW: You say that you arrived at Cosatu House and that you climbed out of the vehicle and patrolled the area surrounding the building on foot?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Were you armed?

MR BRITS: Yes.

MR ROSSOUW: You've already testified that Colonel de Kock had stated that no person should be injured during the operation, did you have an instruction that anybody should be shot should they arrive on the scene?

MR BRITS: No.

MR ROSSOUW: You also state that you did not see how the other members penetrated the Cosatu House building but that you withdrew after a while and waited a short distance away for the explosion

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: The other members who were involved in the operation are mentioned in paragraph 1.1, you say that after the explosion you saw Captain Zeelie on television and that is also where you recollection springs from that he could be involved in the COSATU House incident?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Page 6 paragraph 1.3 you also state that in your handwritten application that Lionel Snyman and Dries van Heerden's involvement, are you certain about the involvement?

MR BRITS: No.

MR ROSSOUW: It is a mistake that you made to mention them in your handwritten application?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also mention the braai that was held at Vlakplaas after the incident and that ex-Minister Vlok paid a visit during which he expressed his congratulations?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also state that no persons as far as you know were seriously injured or killed and that the building was injured and that the operation had been a success?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You did not draw any financial benefit or remuneration from the incident except for the fact that a braai was held at Vlakplaas after the operation?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Brits, during the trial here you heard the evidence which was given by General van der Merwe, ex-Minister Vlok about the political objective of this operation?

MR BRITS: Yes, I did hear the evidence.

MR ROSSOUW: Do you reconcile yourself with that and are you in agreement with this?

MR BRITS: Yes that is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also refer on page 6 of your application paragraph 10 (a) that the political objective as incorporated in the application of Nortjè should be incorporated in your application?

MR BRITS: Yes that is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You also say that your involvement emanated from an order which was given by Colonel de Kock?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You believed that this action against Cosatu House was aimed at the ANC which was the enemy so that their operational activities could be halted and more specifically so that the revolutionary material which was distributed as a result of the printing press which was used could be halted?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: The operation was also aimed at creating confusion between Cosatu and the ANC?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: You have already confirmed that your involvement was a result of an order from Colonel de Kock and that you participated directly under his command?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Brits, finally on page 8 of the annexure in the final paragraph, you confirm the content thereof and request that the Committee take note of this?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: More specifically that since you have resigned from the Police you have had numerous medical problems, that you have a weak medical condition that you have been diagnosed with cancer and that in January last year you underwent an operation and that you are currently still receiving treatment for your condition?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman, that's the evidence for the applicant.

NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ROSSOUW

MR VISSER: Visser on record Mr Chairman, I have no questions.

NO QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER

CHAIRPERSON: No questions from any applicants.

ADV DE JAGER: Mr Brits do you know Mr Willemse?

MR BRITS: That is correct.

ADV DE JAGER: Did he participate with you in that operation or one of the operations or both operations?

MR BRITS: He participated with me in one of the operations.

ADV DE JAGER: Do you know exactly what he did?

MR BRITS: No, I don't know.

MR ROSSOUW: Mr Chairman just relating to that question, Mr Brits is only applying for one incident, Cosatu House, whereas Mr Willemse is applying for both, Cosatu and Khotso House.

CHAIRPERSON: No questions, thank you.

WITNESS EXCUSED