ON RESUMPTION
MS LOCKHAT: We call on Mr Vlietstra.
MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman, the application of Mr Vlietstra, appears on page 185 of the Bundle.
ADV DE JAGER: That is Bundle 4?
MR WESSELS: Bundle 4, correct.
ADV DE JAGER: Afrikaans or English speaking?
MR VLIETSTRA: Afrikaans.
C. VLIETSTRA: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR WESSELS: Mr Vlietstra, is it correct that during 1986 you were a member of Special Forces?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct.
MR WESSELS: And you worked under Commandant Naude?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct.
MR WESSELS: Is it correct that you received instructions from Commandant Naude to assist in the operation where the Ribeiro's would be eliminated?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct Chairperson.
MR WESSELS: You have heard the evidence of Mr Robey?
MR VLIETSTRA: I did.
MR WESSELS: And you drove with him on the day of the incident and when the operatives returned from Mamelodi, they stopped and climbed into the Landrover and you drove away the vehicle that they were driving?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct Chairperson.
MR WESSELS: What did you do with this vehicle?
MR VLIETSTRA: I drove it to the Unit's office and parked it there.
MR WESSELS: Do you know what happened to this vehicle?
MR VLIETSTRA: I have no idea.
MR WESSELS: Did you see any weapons in the vehicle?
MR VLIETSTRA: Yes, the weapons were next to me in the vehicle. When I locked the vehicle, I gave the keys to Mr Naude and I departed.
MR WESSELS: Were you involved in any further way in this incident.
MR VLIETSTRA: Not at all.
MR WESSELS: I have no more questions, thank you Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WESSELS
MR VISSER: No questions from Visser, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER
MR GROBLER: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR GROBLER
MR WAGENER: No questions, Mr Chairman.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR WAGENER
MR DU PLESSIS: I also have no questions, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS LOCKHAT: You said you received the instructions from Mr Naude, is that correct?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct.
MS LOCKHAT: What did he tell you, what did he inform you?
MR VLIETSTRA: He informed me - may I speak Afrikaans - he gave me instructions to assist Mr Robey with the moving of the vehicles. This was my only purpose in this operation.
MS LOCKHAT: Did you know who was going to be eliminated?
MR VLIETSTRA: I was told, yes.
MS LOCKHAT: Who told you this?
MR VLIETSTRA: Mr Naude.
MS LOCKHAT: So what exactly did he tell you?
MR VLIETSTRA: He said there was going to be an attack on Dr and Mrs Ribeiro.
MS LOCKHAT: Did he tell you why?
MR VLIETSTRA: He did not tell me in detail, but I was aware that they were part of the terrorist struggle.
MS LOCKHAT: Did you receive the file, did you have a look at the file as well?
MR VLIETSTRA: Not at all.
MS LOCKHAT: So your instructions were just to assist in driving the vehicles?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct.
MS LOCKHAT: Did you meet the operatives as well?
MR VLIETSTRA: No, except for the fact when we exchanged vehicles, when I jumped out of the vehicle, they ran passed me. I saw them for about ten seconds, maybe less, and I never saw them again. I don't think I would be able to recognise them if I saw them again today.
MS LOCKHAT: You said there were weapons in the car. What type of weapons were there?
MR VLIETSTRA: It was 45 Colts with long silencers.
MS LOCKHAT: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR POWE: Chairperson, you skipped me over, I didn't mean to forever forego my privilege, if I may call it that, of putting questions. I've got two questions.
Mr Vlietstra, you are welcome to answer me in Afrikaans.
MR VLIETSTRA: Thank you.
MR POWE: In your application on page 196 and paragraph 10(a) thereof, you set out why you became involved in this operation and you say amongst others, Dr and Mrs Ribeiro, I was told that Dr and Mrs Ribeiro were responsible for the destabilisation of Mamelodi and that it was necessary for them to be eliminated.
Now you have just said in reply to the Evidence Leader that Mr Naude did not tell you why the Ribeiro's were to be eliminated. If that is so, if I understood you correctly, who told you as is set out in your application at page 196?
MR VLIETSTRA: Mr Chairperson, if I can remind you, I had said that Mr Naude told me that they were involved in the terrorist struggle.
MR POWE: Was that Mr Naude who told you that, then I misunderstood your answer and I apologise.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: You did Mr Powe.
MR POWE: On page 197 of your application, paragraph 11(a) you say I understood that Naude was under the command of Brigadier Jack Cronje of the Security Police with regard to the relevant operation.
Now where did you get this understanding from?
MR VLIETSTRA: I was aware and since I worked with Mr Naude, that we had to work closely with the SAP during that time. We might have expressed ourselves incorrectly by saying that we were under the command of Cronje, I understand now that it was in support, but I might have used the term under his command incorrectly.
MR POWE: So Mr Naude was not under the command of Brigadier Cronje you say, but rather supporting him, that is what you now say?
MR VLIETSTRA: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POWE: No further questions, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR POWE
CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?
MR WESSELS: No questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR WESSELS
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: I have no questions.
CHAIRPERSON: Very well, thank you, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED
