MR POLSEN: May it please you Mr Chairman, my name is Graham Polsen of the firm Ruth & Wessels and I appear on behalf of the applicant. May I ask that the applicant be sworn in if that is the custom here?
ADV DE JAGER: Mr Kendall, are you English or Afrikaans speaking?
MR KENDALL: Abraham Christoffel Kendall.
ABRAHAM CHRISTOFFEL KENDALL: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please proceed.
EXAMINATION BY MR POLSEN: As it pleases you Chairperson. You will find that the application for amnesty is in Bundle 5, numbers 1, 2 and 3 and the supplementary application is a very important application.
Excuse me, it has been pointed out that this is the Bundle that is concerned with the KwaNdebele 9, so it should be Bundle 7. The applications you will find, are duplicated because my client has applied in a previous case, he has applied for amnesty with regard to the Cry Freedom matter. If you look at Bundle 7, the applications are numbered 5, 6 and supplementary is 7.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR POLSEN: In my reading of the documents I found that in one of the applications, a number of pages were missing and I have copied them, in case they are needed. I beg leave to hand them up. They are pages 3 - 9, both pages inclusive, and they deal mainly with the evidence, with the KwaNdebele 9, but it also deals with the Ntuli matter.
I therefore beg leave to hand them in to supplement the papers.
CHAIRPERSON: Please hand them in.
MR POLSEN: Thank you Mr Chair. Colonel, you have given evidence here before and you set out certain background evidence and you were present when Gen Joubert gave evidence and you were present when Gen Van der Merwe and Minister Vlok had given evidence, is that correct?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Have you since read through that evidence, specifically that of Gen Van der Merwe?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I have Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: And you had the opportunity to read the Mortimer report, is that correct?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: And in your application dealing with the Piet Ntuli incident, on page 8, the hand-written 8, I am dealing with the wrong one, please excuse me Chairperson.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Mr Polsen, there are two applications which look identical to me, I tried to go through some of them word by word. I would request that you deal with the second application, because it is more legible. The other one is illegible.
MR POLSEN: In which Bundle?
CHAIRPERSON: Bundle 7.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Bundle 7.
MR POLSEN: Would you like me to deal with Bundle 7?
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes, if you could use that particular application and the paginated number in my Bundle, is 65. I don't know if you have the same Bundle and similarly paginated.
The pages that you have given us, are the pages that are contained in that particular application. There is no pages which is missing.
MR POLSEN: Yes, I would also like to refer you to the supplementary application, which actually deals with the matter more fully.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes.
MR POLSEN: I have Bundle 7 before me and I am at page 65. It doesn't seem as if our Bundles are numbered the same, although that is supplementary application, let me take you through to the typed portion, it is the same as the one that I have.
If you turn to page 70, the written 70, then you will have Piet Ntuli, KwaNdebele.
CHAIRPERSON: Right, we've got that.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: That is right.
MR POLSEN: I would like to start there.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes please.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes.
MR POLSEN: And I do not wish to belabour the record by referring to any other evidence which will deal with motive and the political condition and the order that was received - it is actually brought out here, so what we will basically be dealing with, will be the facts surrounding the Piet Ntuli matter.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes.
MR POLSEN: Otherwise I will be wasting a lot of your time.
Colonel, since 1982 you were the Branch Commander of the South African Police, the Security Branch of the South African Police at Bronkhorstspruit, is that correct?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: And in that capacity you rendered a service to the State of KwaNdebele, if I may call it that?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Were you up to date with the political circumstances and the activities in that area at that time?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Can you please explain to us in your own words what the struggles were, what were the viewpoints, the opposing viewpoints surrounding the existence of KwaNdebele since 1982, if you could just develop it as it had there?
MR KENDALL: Yes Chairperson, during 1984, 1985 there was much if I should say, development in the State of KwaNdebele, where Ekangala in Bronkhorstspruit was built up in the veld, and during 1984, 1985 it came to the fore that KwaNdebele would be an independent State.
I worked at grassroots level with the Ndebele's in KwaNdebele and I knew there was opposition to the idea of independence for KwaNdebele.
MR POLSEN: From whom was the opposition?
MR KENDALL: This was largely from the traditional leaders who felt that KwaNdebele, or the area that was set out for KwaNdebele, was not forefather property and the area that was appointed to them, could not be developed.
Along with that, it was evident from the struggle that the fact that the area which consisted of Sotho speakers, would be joined with the area of KwaNdebele or the independent State of KwaNdebele.
Many meetings were held in the Nutzi area against the incorporation of KwaNdebele.
MR POLSEN: Who was the Chief Minister at that time?
MR KENDALL: The Chief Minister was Mr Simon Skosana.
MR POLSEN: Did he have a cabinet?
MR KENDALL: Yes, he had a cabinet.
MR POLSEN: Did you know the members of the cabinet?
MR KENDALL: All the members of the cabinet were well known to me. At some stage, I met with them at a shooting range in Bronkhorstspruit, I attended meetings with them, I was at social functions with them.
MR POLSEN: Mr Piet Ntuli, was he one of those ministers?
MR KENDALL: Yes Chairperson, Piet Ntuli was the Minister of Interior Affairs.
MR POLSEN: Was he a leadership figure in the cabinet of KwaNdebele?
MR KENDALL: For the time period that I knew Mr Piet Ntuli, it was clear that he was a strong person in the cabinet. Some of the cabinet members spelt this out to me that Mr Ntuli was too strong for them. He was the power behind Skosana himself.
MR POLSEN: Can you explain what was the movement known as Mbukoto?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, before the unrest started, I had known of the existence of the movement, Mbukoto. At that stage they focused on criminal matters that was not reported to the Police. They took the law into their own hands. Mbukoto means the stone that grinds? But they came to the fore after the unrest broke out.
MR POLSEN: Did Piet Ntuli play any part in Mbukoto?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, it was clear to me that the strong man in the Mbukoto was Mr Piet Ntuli.
MR POLSEN: Would you then say that Piet Ntuli was the leader of a group of people who had taken to crime in their area, do you know of any offences committed by Mr Piet Ntuli?
MR KENDALL: I was aware of offences committed but I was not involved with the investigations itself.
MR POLSEN: What was the nature of these offences or crimes?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, if I can recall correctly, at some stage there was a raid by the Security Police at his house, it was not his house at Siyabuswa, it was one of his farm houses, where stolen vehicles, and if I can recall correctly, mention was made of stolen weapons that was found in his ceiling.
MR POLSEN: Do you know if he had committed any murders or assaulted any people?
MR KENDALL: Much talk was heard of this. I was for example at Vlaklaagte where there was a shooting incident, where Mbukoto - or the information that was given to me, that it was a number of men who broke up a youth gathering and the shooting took place and some of the youths were killed, but I was not appointed to this investigation. A special investigation task team was appointed, but I could just mention that Mbukoto had without authorisation or co-operation from the Security Police, had their own roadblocks at night, they launched their own investigations.
It was really a movement that used intimidation and wanted to drive fear into the community.
MR POLSEN: Do you know what Mr Ntuli's attitude was towards the Nutzi area?
MR KENDALL: I can remember it was the Day of the Vow, where there was a large meeting at the Loskop Dam area against the incorporation of KwaNdebele. We were tasked to monitor this from a distance.
During this meeting, it broke up and the unrest started in the Nutzi area and the same evening, if I can recall correctly, it was a Sunday, the same evening the whole KwaNdebele cabinet were at the scene and were driving around in Nutzi. Piet Ntuli's brother, Sam, was armed. All their people were with them.
It seemed as if they were part of the Security Forces as they drove the crowd away. I know the Monday morning, when I arrived at the scene, there was about 30 persons who were arrested with Mbukoto and they had been assaulted badly. I arrived at a certain incident or scene where Piet Ntuli's brother, Sam, was sitting on one of the Nutzi people, and sitting with a gun against his head.
I think it was a member of the Army that pulled him off the person. So they really went out to victimise the inhabitants of Nutzi.
And they tried to intimidate them with their actions.
MR POLSEN: Did they want to incorporate Nutzi, what was their attitude, the Mbukoto?
MR KENDALL: They were for the incorporation of Nutzi, Nutzi was far more developed, it had its own hospital, Philadelphia, there were farms and if I recall correctly, Nutzi was a prosperous area.
MR POLSEN: How did the inhabitants act against the actions of Mbukoto?
MR KENDALL: There was opposition to this independence and against this incorporation of Nutzi from the traditional leaders, to such an extent that two meetings were called at what we would call the King's house, Mapot's house and the second meeting took place on the 14th of May 1986 if I can recall correctly.
There were plus minus 10 000 people, if not more.
ADV DE JAGER: Mr Kendall, is it correct if we should summarise that he had a reign of terror in the area and the local inhabitants, he was hated by the inhabitants and the liberation movements?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Thank you Chairperson, let us take it from there. This was the situation in KwaNdebele when you were in charge, did you have any plans to stabilise this area?
MR KENDALL: That was my task Chairperson. In my statement you will also see that I believed in exploring all avenues. I discussed this with the cabinet, I discussed it with the traditional leaders, I had a good relationship with Prince James Mahlangu.
At some stage, I called in the help of a Catholic Priest. They had a mission at Tweefontein and I knew that the youth met there in the evenings. Prince James addressed them there, this was during the school boycotts and this Priest, Shaun O'Leary was also detained at Groblersdal by the Security Police. I immediately realised when I saw the papers that there was no case against this man.
I called Headquarters. We could not release people ourselves, we had to get permission. I put my case to Headquarters, I received my letter of release and I built up a good relationship with him. Through him I had contact with the youth and the comrades and as well with Prince James, who was seen as the leader of the comrades.
And then with the traditionalists who sat in the cabinet, I had contact from the traditional side and even at cabinet meetings, at some stage Piet Ntuli swore at me before all the people at the meeting, because I did not put my whole weight behind the cabinet and their ideology of independence.
MR POLSEN: Did you report this to the line of command, to the top, to whom did you report?
MR KENDALL: My immediate Commander in Pretoria was Brigadier Jack Cronje.
MR POLSEN: At any stage did you attend a meeting or were you aware of a meeting that was held by Brigadier Jack Cronje and other persons in Pretoria?
MR KENDALL: I was not, I did not attend such meetings.
MR POLSEN: But were you aware that such meetings were held?
MR KENDALL: I am aware of it now, but at that time, I could not say that I attended any of them, or I was aware of this, but we were under a Joint Management Board.
CHAIRPERSON: When you talk about such meetings, what meetings are we talking about?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, there was a Joint Management Centre, a JMC, that we called it. It was divided into mini JMC's.
At this JMC it was the Security Forces, the Army, the Police, National Intelligence, I think the Department of Education and Training was also part of the JMC.
MR POLSEN: Were you at any stage aware of the fact that Piet Ntuli was identified as a target?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Can you explain to us, explain what you handed in as a report to Brigadier Jack Cronje?
MR KENDALL: I can just mention that at some stage I arranged with Brigadier Jack Cronje that I met with the traditional leaders, or there were members of the legislature and Cornelius was a member of the cabinet, that I took them in secrecy to Voortrekkerhoogte, to meet with Brigadier Jack Cronje and I think Cornelius and Andries were well known to me, and five or six others that we had a meeting with, where Brigadier Hans Moller, he is a Major General today, he was the Chairperson of the JMC and those traditional leaders spelt out the reign of terror that Piet Ntuli had in the area and spelt out the criminal activities that he was busying himself with and nobody was acting against him.
Brigadier Moller said that he would pay attention to this incident and the same evening, I went to Mr Nico Prinsloo, who was then the Chairperson of the National Party at Bronkhorstspruit. He said he would send a memorandum to Min Chris Heunis. I helped him with the drawing up of this memorandum, and I know it was sent to the Central Government, I don't know what happened to it.
MR POLSEN: Very well, if we could return to - or explain to us what was your involvement in the death of Piet Ntuli and how did it come about that you were involved there? You say that you are aware that he was, you were not aware that he was targeted?
MR KENDALL: With Brigadier Cronje, my point of view was that Piet Ntuli had to be removed from the scene and I can put it that I did not say that he had to be killed. I believed that Piet Ntuli had to be removed from the scene, because there were many criminal complaints against him and if proper investigation was launched, we would have had another amnesty application.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: May I interpose Mr Polsen. What do you mean when you say, you stated that Piet Ntuli had to be removed from the scene?
MR KENDALL: As a political leader he had to be removed from the scene.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: And how would that have affected his participation within Mbukoto? If he had been removed from his position as a political leader, would that have had any impact at all on his participation within Mbukoto?
MR KENDALL: I believe so Chairperson. If one had to look from a legal vantage point to the investigation of his criminal activities, he would have been removed from Mbukoto or his influence would have been removed from Mbukoto.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Are you saying there was a link between the cabinet, are you saying there was a link between the cabinet in KwaNdebele and Mbukoto as an organisation?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, except for a few exceptions, the KwaNdebele cabinet was Mbukoto.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Thank you.
MR POLSEN: Colonel, will you please get to the 29th of July.
ADV DE JAGER: I think that is paragraph 8, if you could just follow the application reasonably, it will facilitate our following of the application. You can also simply confirm certain paragraphs, it is not necessary for you to give a verbal rendition of everything.
MR POLSEN: Will you please look at paragraph 8, the 29th of July 1986, describe to us how that day began for you and what you had on your agenda and how things took their course?
MR KENDALL: On that specific day, a Security Branch had been established in Siyabuswa, but it did not have any staff yet. Lieutenant Flip de Beer would have been the Commander of the Security Branch.
He was stationed in Soweto and on that particular day, I went with him through the area and introduced him to the people. In Nutzi for example, Chief Matebe and the others, we went to the government offices that morning, we drove in and out a few times that day, because we couldn't find any ministers.
That afternoon we had lunch at the Bundu Inn Hotel.
ADV DE JAGER: Colonel, we would like to get to the event and what this has to do with the murder. Where you had lunch that afternoon, is of no relevance for your amnesty application.
MR KENDALL: I understand. We drove around in the KwaNdebele and Nutzi area that day. At approximately four o'clock that afternoon, I took Lieutenant De Beer back to the Siyabuswa police station, to his vehicle.
Opposite the government offices, I saw a white kombi, a Hi-Ace. People were braaiing meat, I recognised them as Jack Cronje, Jacques Hechter and Jaap van Jaarsveld. We stopped there by them, there were two other people who were unknown to me at that stage. They were introduced to me as Andries Oosthuizen and Deon Gouws from the Murder and Robbery Unit.
Enquiries were made about Piet Ntuli and I assumed that he was being sought after a criminal charge, because these were members of the Murder and Robbery Unit that were present.
At that stage I did not know where Ntuli was. Someone then mentioned that Ntuli had been at Siyabuswa earlier that day, because they had seen him at a petrol station. De Beer and I departed a little while later and I took him to the government offices.
We went back to the government offices and I checked to see if Ntuli's motor vehicle would be there. According to my knowledge, all cabinet members drove silver grey Mercedes Benz government cars.
However, there was no vehicle on his official parking spot, and I took De Beer back to the Police Headquarters in Siyabuswa.
I then decided to return to Cronje and the others, but first went back to the government offices to see if Ntuli had not returned to his office in the meantime. Upon my arrival at Cronje and the others, I was informed that Ntuli was at the Chief Minister's house.
I must just mention that on this particular day I was also looking for the Chief Minister, but was told at his office that he was in Johannesburg for a medical examination. I decided to go to the Chief Minister's residence because it was not far from where we had found these persons.
I wanted to discuss the issue of unrest in KwaNdebele, the school boycotts and the traditional leaders, that we wanted to get together with the cabinet members in order to achieve stability in KwaNdebele.
Cronje accompanied me, seeing as he proposed that I should introduce him to the Chief Minister, because he had not met him before. We climbed into our vehicle. I must also mention that I spent quite some time chatting to them, we had a few drinks.
On the way to the residence, I saw Hechter laying in the back of the vehicle, on the floor. I did not see him climb into the vehicle, it was only the three of us in the vehicle, on the way to the Chief Minister, me, Cronje and Hechter.
In front of the Chief Minister's house, there were a number of vehicles parked. Cronje indicated a brownish coloured Toyota Cressida to me as Ntuli's vehicle and instructed me to park as close to the vehicle as possible.
I parked next to the vehicle and climbed out.
MR POLSEN: Was Cronje your immediate superior?
MR KENDALL: He was my immediate Commander in Pretoria. When I climbed out there was a security guard at the vehicles. I walked through the gate of the house and I saw another security guard in the shadow of the trees and the shrubbery, who greeted me.
I went into the house and Brigadier Cronje waited at the gate. I do not know what Hechter was doing at that stage. I went in to the Chief Minister, we had a conversation and we had tea. After a while, he got up and we walked out and Brigadier Cronje, when he saw both of us approaching, moved through the gate and I introduced him to the Chief Minister.
They chatted for a while and after that Cronje and I left. Directly after that, we departed to where the others were waiting. Under way, just after we had left the fenced area of the Minister's residence, Cronje asked Hechter if he had managed, upon which the latter mentioned, answered in the affirmative.
I suspected that a bomb may have been involved at that stage, but I wasn't certain. All the time while Hechter was in the back of the vehicle, I suspected that dirty tricks may have been involved.
Yes, I mean Hechter that was in the back of the vehicle, I had a suspicion that they were busy with dirty tricks, but I definitely didn't know that it was a bomb. When we returned to the group of people that remained behind, that is Oosthuizen, Van Jaarsveld and Gouws, for the first time, it was told to me that it was a bomb which had been specially manufactured for a Toyota Cressida.
I was not informed who had manufactured it or where on the vehicle, it had been placed. I can only remember that Oosthuizen and Gouws, one of them had a switch in their hands. I am trained in demolitions, one of them had a switch and I wouldn't say that they were arguing, I said in my application that they were arguing, but they had an exchange of words regarding who would activate the bomb. That is the last that I heard.
MR POLSEN: At that stage you were next to a kombi outside the fence of the Minister's residence?
MR KENDALL: That is correct.
MR POLSEN: And after you heard this discussion, did you remain there or did you depart?
MR KENDALL: No, I departed for Bronkhorstspruit.
MR POLSEN: Were you alone or was anybody with you?
MR KENDALL: I was alone.
MR POLSEN: What happened next?
MR KENDALL: On the way I wasn't very far out of Siyabuswa, I received a radio message that a bomb had exploded at the Siyabuswa Police station. I immediately realised that this had something to do with the car bomb.
My fear was that it was indeed the Siyabuswa Police station.
MR POLSEN: What did you do then?
MR KENDALL: I turned around and went back. When I arrived upon the scene, there were already members from the Security Forces that had cordoned off the area. Brigadier Daan van Wyk, who was at that stage in control of Special Investigations in KwaNdebele, came to me and asked me if I knew Ntuli, because they suspected that he had been killed in an explosion.
CHAIRPERSON: Can you just stop there a little bit. You talk about Hechter being up to some dirty tricks and you suspected that he might be busy with a bomb. You haven't told us whose vehicle he was going to put that bomb on, or you haven't told us whether he had succeeded in putting a bomb under any vehicle. What had happened?
MR POLSEN: Mr Chairman, I think that the evidence was that at the time, he wasn't aware of the fact that a bomb would be planted. When he returned and came to the kombi, he only realised that there was a bomb, because there was a discussion relating to who would activate that particular bomb.
CHAIRPERSON: Planted where?
MR POLSEN: I don't think the witness testified that he knew where, but he only suspected then, at that particular point in time, his suspicion arose.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, in other words, up to that stage, he did not know that the bomb was being planted under Ntuli's car?
MR POLSEN: That is correct.
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, proceed.
MR POLSEN: After you received the report on the radio, did you then turn around and return to the Police station?
MR KENDALL: That is correct. When I arrived upon the scene of the explosion, Brigadier Daan van Wyk asked if I knew Ntuli and I said yes. He said that he suspected that it was Ntuli that had been killed in a car bomb explosion.
He then took me to the remainder of a very mutilated corps, only the person's head and left shoulder was unharmed but I immediately recognised it as Ntuli.
At that stage, someone came to me with a number plate, it was KNA555 and he said that this was definitely Ntuli, that he knew Ntuli's car. I undertook the necessary investigation, it was dark that night, between thorn bushes and shrubbery. I took over the scene because I was also the Demolitions Expert in the area.
I asked that the area be cordoned off until the following morning, upon which we would be able to undertake a proper investigation. From the scene, I went to the Police Headquarters in Siyabuswa, where I found Brigadier Chris van Niekerk, the then Commissioner of the KwaNdebele Police as well as Gerrie van der Merwe, the Commissioner General of KwaNdebele, and Cronje, Van Wyk and many other Officers and persons.
MR POLSEN: And the investigation took its usual course after that, by means of the South African Police, is that correct?
MR KENDALL: No, I will just explain there as well. I told the Officers that the area had been cordoned off for the evening, until the following morning.
But that following morning early, I was at home in Bronkhorstspruit, I received a call from Cronje, that the KwaNdebele cabinet, that very same evening, had contacted the Central Government and said that I was responsible for the bomb explosion, and that according to Brigadier Cronje, I had received an instruction from Gen Van der Merwe that I should not enter KwaNdebele.
MR POLSEN: So you were suspected of the murder that very same evening? Did you return to the KwaNdebele area?
MR KENDALL: Yes. Two days later Gen Stan Schutte contacted me and told me to come out and investigate the matter. The following day, he found me in the office, it was early that morning. He and two members of the Brixton Murder and Robbery Unit went with me to Siyabuswa.
I showed them everywhere where I had moved about in the Siyabuswa complex that day, where I had been that day, that evening. Where I had disembarked from my vehicle, where my vehicle had been parked, where I had - I went with Schutte to the Minister's front door. The same black woman who had opened the door for us on that day, opened the door for us that morning, took us to the scene of the explosion.
MR POLSEN: But since then, have you returned to Siyabuswa?
MR KENDALL: No, never again.
MR POLSEN: And according to the general, or the popular opinion, were you the murderer of Ntuli or are you suspected thereof?
MR KENDALL: Yes, for the past ten years until it became known to the Commission who was also responsible for the incident, throughout the entire Bronkhorstspruit and KwaNdebele area, I was the prime suspect.
MR POLSEN: And if you will just refer to the other paragraphs of your application, on page 75, I will like to refer you to paragraph 18, do you confirm the correctness thereof?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I confirm this as correct.
MR POLSEN: And so also paragraph 19 until the end of your application, paragraph 22, everything that has to do with the Ntuli incident?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I confirm that.
MR POLSEN: Have you also read the judgement of the Amnesty Committee with regard to the application of Hechter and Cronje?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I have.
MR POLSEN: And do you agree with that decision?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I do.
MR POLSEN: Do you confirm it?
MR KENDALL: Yes, I do.
MR POLSEN: Would you like this to be read along with your own application?
MR KENDALL: Yes.
MR POLSEN: Is there anything else that you wish to tell us with regard to this application of yours?
MR KENDALL: No.
MR POLSEN: With regard to your sentiments? I know that it is not entirely relevant, but it has become custom to express one's sentiments.
MR KENDALL: As I have said before, for those few years I was the prime suspect, to such an extent that this entire matter has resulted that I have been medically discharged from the South African Defence Force as a result of stress. I have undergone psychiatric treatment in clinics.
In 1997 I underwent electro shock therapy. That was not my nature, when I said that somebody should be removed from the scene, that he be removed in such a manner from the scene. Not only the corpse that I saw that evening and the consequences thereof, but also many other things which I saw in KwaNdebele, and subsequently, have changed me from a loyal policeman to - I wouldn't say a wreck, but a man who cannot even be a Constable in the Police today.
MR POLSEN: Thank you Mr Chairman, that is the evidence.
ADV DE JAGER: Mr Polsen, it does not appear from the application specifically which deeds he is applying for amnesty for.
It is stated see Annexure and it is not specific enough. Is he applying for murder or defeating the ends of justice, what exactly is he applying for? You can submit this to us later so we are aware. You can include this with your Heads of argument.
MR POLSEN: Might I refer you to page 77 of the application, where he states paragraph 22, which begins on page 76. It is about being an accomplice and an accessory to the fact that he maintained silence about the event.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: That appears on page 77 Mr Polsen.
MR POLSEN: Thank you. Mr Chairman, that is the application for the applicant.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR POLSEN
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Is there anybody who wishes to put questions to this applicant?
MR WESSELS: Mr Chairman, might I be allowed to ask one question?
CHAIRPERSON: Certainly.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR WESSELS: Mr Kendal, the Defence Force member that you saw there who picked up the number plate, was that a member of the South African Defence Force or the KwaNdebele Defence Force?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, I cannot think that far back, but I know that it was someone in a brown uniform.
MR WESSELS: Were Defence Force members deployed to that area as a rule?
MR KENDALL: Yes, at that stage, they had been deployed there.
MR WESSELS: So his presence was not strange?
MR KENDALL: No, it wasn't strange at all.
MR WESSELS: Thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR WESSELS
MR GOOSEN: Mr Chairman, Pieter Goosen, if I might, from Kemp, De Beer and Goosen Attorneys on behalf of the Ntuli family. I would just like to state a couple of questions to Mr Kendall.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, certainly.
MR ROSSOUW: Sorry Mr Chairman, perhaps before my learned colleague go, I have only got one question on behalf of two of the applicants.
CHAIRPERSON: All right, perhaps you should ask the questions first then.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR ROSSOUW: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Kendall, just one question on behalf of Mr Gouws, who is also an applicant in this incident.
When you drove in from the place where the braai was being held to the Minister's residence, you mentioned that you saw Captain Hechter in the back of the vehicle. Did you see anybody else in the vehicle?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
MR ROSSOUW: Just to be fair, Mr Gouws will testify that he was with you and that he held guard outside while you were visiting the Chief Minister in his home, can you recall that?
MR KENDALL: Not in the same vehicle, not in my vehicle. It was only me and Cronje and Hechter. That he held watch, that he moved closer, I cannot tell you whether or not that was true.
MR ROSSOUW: Very well.
ADV DE JAGER: Put it to him, did Gouws drive the vehicle, was he in the back of the vehicle, was he in the boot, where was he?
MR ROSSOUW: Chairperson, there is unclarity regarding this piece of evidence.
ADV DE JAGER: But Gouws will know Mr Rossouw.
MR ROSSOUW: Mr Kendall, the evidence is that there was one vehicle that moved in and Gouws' evidence will be that he was in the vehicle and that he did not sit in front?
MR KENDALL: From the people that was sitting there, I only saw that there was a kombi. According to my recollection, we used my vehicle, a white Nissan Skyline, you will also see in my application that I have stated that this brother of Piet Ntuli, Sam, after I arrived at the Police office, stormed at me in the vehicle and said this is the person that was moving around the area the whole day long, and that had visited the Minister at his residence and that I was responsible for the death of his brother.
According to my recollection it was only me and Hechter who was in the back of the vehicle, and Brigadier Cronje, who was in my vehicle. There was nobody else.
MR ROSSOUW: Thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR ROSSOUW
MR DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, may I be afforded just two questions?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. On behalf of?
MR DU PLESSIS: On behalf of Brigadier Cronje and Captain Hechter.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR DU PLESSIS: Mr Kendall, did you study the evidence of Brigadier Cronje as set out in Exhibit D from page 554 right until the end, page 569?
MR POLSEN: Mr Chairman, the documentation was not made available to us, and my client has not read that document.
CHAIRPERSON: Very well.
MR DU PLESSIS: Very well, might I just explain very briefly what Cronje's evidence was? He testified that ...
CHAIRPERSON: Is that evidence going to be contrary to what he has said, what the applicant has said?
MR DU PLESSIS: Mr Chairman, I am not a hundred percent sure out of the evidence of Mr Kendall, if it accords with Brigadier Cronje and that is all that I want to make sure of.
CHAIRPERSON: But is it really relevant at this stage?
MR DU PLESSIS: Then I will leave the question Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Mr Du Plessis, are you not trying to get to the reason why Mr Ntuli was targeted by Mr Cronje in the first place, which I think is quite relevant?
That particular evidence has not definitely come out, or has not been born so far, by the evidence presented to us by Mr Kendall.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Kendall, does he know about it?
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: And I may proceed, that according to Mr Cronje, this information came from the people who were on the ground, the likes of Mr Kendall, is it not so?
MR DU PLESSIS: Yes Mr Chairman, it is just the one point that I want to make sure of, and that is that Brigadier Cronje testified and maybe I can elaborate a little bit on the question and then you can decide if you want to allow me to ask it.
CHAIRPERSON: All right.
MR DU PLESSIS: Brigadier Cronje testified that what Mbukoto did was to destabilise KwaNdebele, which eventually practically had the same result as what the ANC intended and that was the political motivation, to eliminate Mr Ntuli and I just wanted to know if Mr Kendall agrees with that.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes.
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, I agree one hundred percent with that statement.
MR DU PLESSIS: Thank you. And then could I just ask you, when you drove in, in your vehicle with Hechter next to you, and you were asked to park next to Ntuli's vehicle, and you noticed what you gave evidence about, did you at that stage think that something strange was about to happen and that somebody was about to be killed as a result of that?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, as I have said, it was a sudden decision to go in. In my application I said that I suspected that as Hechter was laying in the back of the vehicle, there would be dirty tricks. If I have to think back 13 years, I cannot think that I thought that somebody was going to die.
I wasn't part of that Security Branch, within the Security Branch plan, if we have to put it that way, I had never been a member of such activity. I was a small man, who carried small secrets around with me at that stage.
MR DU PLESSIS: But you would agree with me that under those circumstances, there would certainly have been the possibility or can you not recall it specifically at this moment?
MR KENDALL: At that stage there was the possibility, that is correct.
MR DU PLESSIS: Thank you Mr Chairman, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS
CHAIRPERSON: A possibility, a suspicion that it might occur, he can't go any further than that. Yes, thank you very much.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DEN BERG: Mr Kendall, you have said that a number of cases against Mr Ntuli were being investigated, were there ever any arrests, did you ever attempt to arrest him?
MR KENDALL: I know that there were charges. I don't know what it was about, because there was special investigative teams. I don't know whether an in depth investigation was ever lodged into the matters, I don't know.
MR VAN DEN BERG: At the stage when you and Cronje and Hechter went in, did you think that something was going to happen?
MR KENDALL: I beg your pardon?
MR VAN DEN BERG: What I mean is, you drove there, you saw Hechter in the back of the vehicle, you started becoming suspicious that something was about to happen, did you think that he was going to be arrested or did you expect something worse?
MR KENDALL: Earlier that afternoon, I have expected, as I said in my application, when I saw the two members of Murder and Robbery with Brigadier Cronje and the others, I thought that there were real criminal charges and that is why they were looking for Piet Ntuli.
I didn't think that they were going to get rid of him.
MR VAN DEN BERG: Thank you very much.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DEN BERG
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS LOCKHAT: Chairperson, I have just two questions to ask. Mr Kendall, on the 26th of July, was it just by accident, on the 29th, excuse me, was it just by accident that you actually bumped into Cronje and the likes?
MR KENDALL: That is correct.
MS LOCKHAT: Is it true that you were at previous meetings regarding the Piet Ntuli, where you actually briefed Cronje and others regarding Piet Ntuli?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, every Friday at the Divisional Branch Northern Transvaal, all the Officers who were in control of desks as we called it, and the Branch Commanders, would all participate in meetings, with Cronje as the Divisional Commander.
Every member or Officer had to make a contribution on such a morning. I knew much about the unrest situation in KwaNdebele and Piet Ntuli.
MS LOCKHAT: So at this meeting, they did not discuss the elimination or as you said, the removal of Mr Piet Ntuli?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
MS LOCKHAT: I find that a bit strange to believe that you didn't know about these incidents. It just seems unlikely that you could have just gone there and bumped into these men on that particular day, seeing that you briefed them previously?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, sometimes the improbable becomes the truth, but I didn't know that Brigadier Cronje and the others would be in Siyabuswa on that particular day.
I ran into them that afternoon, half past three and I went to them, he was my Commander. By nature of the situation, he should have briefed me that he was coming through to Siyabuswa, which never took place.
MS LOCKHAT: Thank you Chairperson, no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Mr Kendall, just emanating from the questions put to you by Ms Lockhat, Brigadier Cronje has referred to a body called the Joint Information Centre and you have referred to a body called the Joint Management Centre, would those two bodies be the same?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: How different are they?
MR KENDALL: I am not sure if Brigadier Cronje would have referred to Trevits and I to the JMC. I am not sure, but this was two different bodies Chairperson.
Excuse me, if Brigadier Cronje referred to the JMC, that would be the same JMC meeting that I referred to in my application.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes. Now in his evidence he stated that he had several meetings with you at the Joint Information Centre, that is the body that he referred to.
That is why I wanted to know whether it was the same body as the JMC, because you have only referred to the body called the JMC? Would he have been therefore mistaken if he said you briefed him about the activities of Piet Ntuli and Mbukoto at the Joint Information Centre meetings?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, this was the meeting that I sketched to you, the Friday morning meetings. Except for the meeting that I attended with Brigadier Cronje, this was the only meeting that I attended with Brigadier Cronje, where KwaNdebele and Piet Ntuli was discussed.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: And that meeting was not a Joint Information Centre meeting? It was not convened under the auspices of the Joint Information Centre?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson, not at such a meeting.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Yes, you may proceed.
ADV DE JAGER: Do you know if there was a body that existed known as the Joint Information Centre, or is it possible that it is an incorrect reference, is it the same body or was there such another body?
MR KENDALL: Chairperson, yes, I was aware of Joint Information Centre, but as far as I can recall, I had never attended such meetings.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: Would I be correct in saying that you as the Branch Commander in that area, would have been the only person who would have been authorised to give briefings to Brigadier Cronje about the activities in KwaNdebele, in particular about the activities of Mbukoto and Mr Piet Ntuli?
MR KENDALL: That is correct Chairperson.
JUDGE KHAMPEPE: And therefore that if Brigadier Cronje refers to the Joint Information Centre, he might be mistaken, he should be referring to the meeting that you have referred to as the JMC meeting, wherein such briefings were given to him?
MR KENDALL: That is correct, yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?
RE-EXAMINATION BY MR POLSEN: Two questions Mr Chairman. Colonel, emanating from a question that was asked by my colleague Mr Du Plessis and my colleague Rossouw, with regards to the person who were in the vehicle when you moved in with your vehicle to the Chief Minister's house, you said that Hechter was on the floor of the vehicle and you only became aware of this later, is that correct?
MR KENDALL: That is correct.
MR POLSEN: Hechter did not sit next to you?
MR KENDALL: That is correct.
MR POLSEN: And except for Hechter who was laying behind you on the floor, Brigadier Cronje sat next to you?
MR KENDALL: That is correct.
MR POLSEN: And were there any other persons in the vehicle?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: With regard, or were you part of the hit-squad?
MR KENDALL: No Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: How did that hit-squad operate?
MR KENDALL: As I have said Chairperson, I was not part of this hit-squad, so I cannot tell you how they operated.
For the first time I really became aware that as I put it earlier, that there was a Security Branch within the Security Branch, this hit-squad, with this incident of Mr Piet Ntuli.
MR POLSEN: Very well, and the fact that you met with them the day they were busy with this, is just coincidence?
MR KENDALL: Yes, it is pure coincidence Chairperson.
MR POLSEN: Thank you, I have no further questions, thank you Mr Chairman.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR POLSEN
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Thank you very much, you are excused.
MR KENDALL: Thank you Mr Chairman.
WITNESS EXCUSED
