ON RESUMPTION
CHAIRPERSON: Good morning, can we as usual gentlemen, put ourselves on record for the sake of those recording. I am Andrew Wilson, presiding.
ADV SANDI: I am Ntsiki Sandi.
MR SIBANYONI: I am J.B. Sibanyoni.
MR HATTINGH: P.A. Hattingh Mr Chairman, instructed by Mr Hugo, appearing for Mr de Kock.
MR BOOYENS: Kobus Booyens, instructed by van der Merwe and Bester, Mr Chairman, on behalf of applicants Tait, Bellingan and Baker and instructed by Strydom Britz on behalf of the applicant Pieter Hendrik Botha.
MR CORNELIUS: Wim Cornelius, Mr Chairman, acting on behalf of D.L. Snyman, the third applicant and L.W.J. Flores and I have also received a notice for implicated party, D.J. Brits so I will obviously act for him as well.
MR NEL: Thank you Mr Chairperson, Christo Nel is the name, I act on behalf of applicant Larry John Hanton.
MR ROSSOUW: Thank you Mr Chairman, Fanie Rossouw, on behalf of applicant Douw Willemse and implicated party, Willie Nortje.
MR BOTHA: Thank you Mr Chairperson, G.J. Botha. I am acting on behalf of the State Attorney for the applicant P.C. Snyders.
MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, may it please you, my name is Louis Visser, I am instructed by Wagener Muller. I act for the following applicants, Mr Chairman, Willem Coetzee, Hendrik du Plessis, Deon Els, Gerrit Erasmus, Phineas Mtshualiba, Alfred Oosthuizen, Jakobus Snyman and Brig Willem Schoon. We will address you later on that issue of Brig Schoon, Chairperson.
MR VAN HEERDEN: Mr Chairman, Hans van Heerden for the family of the victim Tabo Mohale.
ADV STEENKAMP: As it pleases you Mr Chairman, André Steenkamp, I am the Evidence Leader in this matter, thank you sir.
CHAIRPERSON: From what has been said, it appears apparent that the families of the victims and the implicated parties, have been given notice?
ADV STEENKAMP: As you please, that is correct Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, Visser on record, if I may be allowed Mr Chairman, to refer to a conference which we held in your chambers this morning, and to certain reservations which have been expressed in regard to the amnesty applications Chairperson, after we adjourned from your chambers, there appear to be some of my colleagues who believe that they might be able to use the time usefully if the matter were allowed to stand down for a while, to see whether certain of the complications might not be solved. I was asked to mention this to you for your consideration Chairperson.
The one suggestion was that perhaps it might be an idea to stand down till tomorrow, however I know that my learned friend, Mr Booyens, has a problem with one of his witnesses that is not going to be available from Wednesday onwards. We are absolutely in your hands, we are ready to start immediately or at whatever time you wish us to start, either during the day or tomorrow Mr Chairman.
MR BOOYENS: Mr Chairman, the problem that I had, had solved itself.
MR VISSER: Oh.
MR BOOYENS: So, I am indebted to my learned friend for being so courteous towards me, I should in fact have told him that the problem does not exist any more. Mr Chairman, I would support Mr Visser, but certainly in his application, it does seem to all of us, we realise that, there are things that does not seem to dovetail properly and the problem was where we did not have a pre-trial hearing in this matter, where these things could perhaps have been sorted out. I would suggest that the legal teams may be able to perhaps spend the time quite usefully if we subject to what my learned friends say, I think it would be unfair to the Committee to say well, eleven o'clock and at eleven o'clock we say no, there are still some problems that we want to sort out. My suggestion, I don't know, would be perhaps we should start this matter tomorrow, but I know we are pushed for time.
CHAIRPERSON: Well being entirely selfish, I will first of all make a confession that the members of the Committee have been asked to have lunch with the IDASA people and a distinguished American guest, so it seems that whatever happens, we would probably have to stay here till two o'clock. Would that be a tentative time, so if anybody wants to go out and do something else, they can and we will say we hope to hear from you by two o'clock? I raised this problem and it seems to me that it may be one that gives raise to all sorts of small difficulties or it may be one that once you get yourself together and talk about it, things to fit into place and you don't need till tomorrow, but I will be guided by you. I would suggest as a preliminary suggestion, that we adjourn till two o'clock. If you, let me hasten to say, if you by twelve o'clock or something have discovered there is no hope of being ready by two o'clock and you want to go back to your offices to take further statements and do things of that nature, come and tell me, I will be around.
MR CORNELIUS: Mr Chairman, in support, Cornelius, my client, Mr Flores, I was informed by the TRC team is only arriving from Phalaborwa at one o'clock, so if you want to have an extended lunch, I wouldn't like to derail it. I support Mr Visser as far as tomorrow morning is concerned, if it suits the Committee.
MR VISSER: Mr Chairman, Visser again on record, may I just add that we have placed before you two documents. The one is the statement by Col Coetzee. We are rather hopeful Chairperson, that once our learned friends have studied what his evidence is going to be, some light might go on at the end of the tunnel, hopefully that may be so, and that might curtail the matter of sorting out problems.
ADV STEENKAMP: Mr Chairman, if I may just barge in here, it is quite correct what Mr Booyens had indicated, that we did not have a pre-trial conference, although it was agreed as you well know Mr Chairman, about three weeks ago that we will have pre-trial meetings at the end of a specific hearing on a Friday, but unfortunately last Friday was not a very applicable date, because it was a public holiday unfortunately but I am sure that can be sorted out as well in future.
CHAIRPERSON: (Microphone not on) Very well, we will adjourn this hearing till tomorrow morning, we trust that the time will be usefully used and perhaps shorten proceedings, because it does appear that even as they have to be separated into two separate incidents, once the general background to the incident has been given, it will not be necessary to spend an inordinate length of time on precise details, part played by each of the applicants.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
