MR LAX: Mr Vermeulen, your full names for the record.
NICHOLAS JOHANNES VERMEULEN: (sworn states)
MR LAX: Please be seated. Sworn in, Chairperson.
EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS: Thank you, Mr Chair. I'll be brief, I think most of the facts before us from now on will be almost on an agreed basis.
Mr Vermeulen, you have prepared an application in terms of Section 18 of the Act, and you have handed it in.
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: At that stage you were an employee, as described in Section 20(2)(b) and 20(2)(f), Act 34.
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: You were a member of Vlakplaas, as described in Exhibit A in this hearing and you were of the rank of Warrant Officer.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: You were also an explosives expert or an explosives inspector.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: And at all times, as the Honourable Member Mr Lax said, you acted in the execution of your instructions.
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: And it is also common cause before this Amnesty Committee, that you received an instruction to go along with Swart and Chait to the house of de Kock.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: And you were given instructions there to assist with the destruction of the body of Sweet Sambo.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Did you bona fide believe that this instruction came from a higher authority and that you acted against the so-called political enemy of the country?
MR VERMEULEN: Yes, that is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Did you have any ill-feelings towards the particular victim?
MR VERMEULEN: No, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Except for your salary that you received, did you receive any other reward, bonus or reward?
MR VERMEULEN: No, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Very well. I want you to very briefly -after the body was collected, did you obtain explosives?
MR VERMEULEN: Yes, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: What did you obtain?
MR VERMEULEN: I obtained explosives at Vlakplaas. It was not prepared, it was pieces that we had taken from old landmines and commercial explosives. It was approximately 20 to 25 kilograms.
MR CORNELIUS: Was this TNT?
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: And it is common cause that you transported it and took it to Verdrag. What did you do with the corpse and the explosives?
MR VERMEULEN: We laid out the body and we placed the explosives on top of the body and we detonated it several times.
MR CORNELIUS: Was the body clothed, it did not have any clothes on?
MR VERMEULEN: No, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Did you place it in a hunched position?
MR VERMEULEN: No, Chairperson, it was lying flat.
MR CORNELIUS: And rigor mortis had already set in.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: You apply for amnesty before this Committee, for accessory to murder, transgressions with regard to the Explosives Act, with regard to the transport of explosives.
MR VERMEULEN: Yes, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: As well as all delicts which might emanate from acts or omissions committed by you.
MR VERMEULEN: That is correct, Chairperson.
MR CORNELIUS: Thank you, Mr Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS
CHAIRPERSON: I take it it's all delicts committed by you in connection with this offence?
MR CORNELIUS: Oh yes.
CHAIRPERSON: You're not asking for a ...
MR CORNELIUS: No, I'd love to do it on a broader basis, but no, this is regarding this offence. Thank you, Mr Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Any questions?
MR HATTINGH: No thank you, Mr Chairman.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH
MR LAMEY: No questions, Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS LOCKHAT: Just one question, Chairperson.
When you got the instruction from Mr de Kock, did he tell you that he'd received authorisation from Mr Engelbrecht or anybody else? When you received the instruction, the initial instruction.
MR VERMEULEN: No, Mr Chairman.
MS LOCKHAT: So you just - you were just told you must go out and dispose of the body?
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.
MS LOCKHAT: I've got no further questions, thank you, Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS LOCKHAT
CHAIRPERSON: I take it that was the normal practice at Vlakplaas.
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.
CHAIRPERSON: De Kock gave the orders, he didn't have to explain to you where or how he got them, he just told you what to do.
MR VERMEULEN: That's correct, Mr Chairman.
MR SIBANYONI: I suppose you didn't have any removal order to transport the body from Middelburg to Verdrag? Maybe your attorney will look to that, there is an offence of transporting a body without a removal order.
MR VERMEULEN: No, we didn't have a ...
MR SIBANYONI: You didn't have an order.
MR VERMEULEN: No, Sir.
MR SIBANYONI: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. I take it you have no re-examination.
MR CORNELIUS: There's no re-examination, thank you, Sir.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR CORNELIUS
MR VERMEULEN: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR CORNELIUS: Thank you, Mr Chair. My next applicant will be Swart, J J Swart.
