MR KOOPEDI: The last matter I would ask to mention is matter number 22 on your list, that one of H T Gwabane, which is matter number R on the paginated bundle. My instructions are also to withdraw this matter, Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: There was a victim listed in this matter. I take it the victim has no objection to the applicant withdrawing his application.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: ...(indistinct - mike not on)
CHAIRPERSON: Sipo Bongani Ngema.
MR MAPOMA: Chairperson, that applicant has not been located. Actually this telephone number is the number which appears ...
CHAIRPERSON: It's not the applicant, you're talking about the victim.
MR MAPOMA: Yes, I'm sorry Chairperson, the victim. I'm talking about Sipo Ngema, the victim. The number which appears here as 011 4021835 is the telephone number which he gave to the Human Rights Violations Committee when he gave a statement to the HRV Committee some time ago and all attempts have been made to locate him at that number, but unsuccessfully.
CHAIRPERSON: Does that mean that when that number is contacted, they know nothing about Mr Ngema?
MR MAPOMA: I may not say as at this point what the response is actually, Chairperson, but all I was just advised that he can't be found at this number. I may have to find out what ...(indistinct)
JUDGE DE JAGER: But he won't be prejudiced if the matter is withdrawn because his rights wouldn't be affected, he could still claim if he wants to claim.
CHAIRPERSON: His rights are being preserved if the matter is withdrawn, aren't they?
MR MAPOMA: ; Yes, Chairperson, especially when he has given a statement to the Human Rights Violations Committee of the TRC.
CHAIRPERSON: Very well, this matter is also withdrawn. I take it you will do all you can to make sure that Mr Makglasi and Mrs Kala and Rampomane are here tomorrow?
MR KOOPEDI: I may say Chairperson, that Mr Makglasi is in this hall, he has been here every day since Monday, Chairperson and Mr Twala, the same position, he is in this hall and has been here every day of the hearing since last week, Chairperson.
JUDGE DE JAGER: But those are the ones where we have problems with the victims, or can we proceed with those?
MR KOOPEDI: No, we cannot proceed in that the first one, the matter of Makglasi Gakule and Dimasaliwa, this is where we have a problem with the victim who needs a postponement or who still needs to find a lawyer to represent her interest and the other one, the one of Twala and Rampomane, like I said, Twala is here, however the Committee might remember that we said last week that Rampomane is said to be in Botswana, he's on his way here. He should arrive in Pretoria this afternoon or this evening.
CHAIRPERSON: So that can be heard ...
MR KOOPEDI: Tomorrow Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: And I would like to indicate and ask that notice be given to the victim that the matter has been adjourned till tomorrow and that any arrangements to contact an attorney must be made so that there can be an appearance on - is it a female or male victim? So that there can be an appearance on her behalf tomorrow morning, otherwise the matter will proceed.
MR KOOPEDI: Yes, Chairperson, I will certainly do that, I will contact her. ...(inaudible - mike not on)
JUDGE DE JAGER: I understood that Twala, that's matter H, is he present?
MR KOOPEDI: ; He is present, he is in the hall.
JUDGE DE JAGER: Can't we proceed with his evidence, perhaps finish his evidence?
MR KOOPEDI: You might recall Judge in chambers I mentioned that I might come back to you to say I'm withdrawing this matter, I'm not certain yet what the position is going to be. I still need to discuss the matter with the applicant and only then will I be able to say if we're proceeding with the matter or not.
JUDGE DE JAGER: You see, we're now rolling over all the matters until tomorrow and we've got nothing further to do today, so if perhaps we could get certainty on that one and hear his evidence and when his co-applicant turns up, or the matter could stand down and we could hear him then if we're proceeding, but he should decide whether he wants to proceed. If he's withdrawing, okay he's withdrawing, but if he wants to proceed we could at least use the time to hear him.
CHAIRPERSON: No, I don't want to get involved in an argument, but are you indicating that Mr Twala has not made up his mind what is he going to do and wants to discuss the matter with Mr Rampomane, before he comes to a decision or can you discuss it with Mr Twala now? We would happily give you a short adjournment and he can come to a decision as regards his application.
MR KOOPEDI: Chairperson, from what I understood from this morning's consultation, we would need Mr Rampomane to also agree or assist us in coming to that decision of withdrawing. We will be consulting with him as soon as he arrives later today and we should then be in a position to say whether we're proceeding with the matter or we're throwing the matter.
CHAIRPERSON: You say arriving later today, have you any certainty as to when he would arrive?
MR KOOPEDI: We were only told this afternoon, Chairperson, so as soon as he arrives, I had assumed that by then one would be available for a consultation, but my impression was it would have been after the day's sitting.
CHAIRPERSON: Oh. So there'll be no point in sitting at 2 o'clock this afternoon?
MR KOOPEDI: No, I wouldn't ask for that Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Very well. The matter of Twala and Rampomane will stand over - no sorry, it won't, it will not be put on today's list as it is already on tomorrow's list.
MR KOOPEDI: That is indeed so, it has been set down for tomorrow Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Does that conclude the day's hearing?
MR MAPOMA: By the look of things, yes, Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Well, we expressed our views fairly strongly last week and I must say there does not appear to have been much change. Another day wasted, another day in which the State is put to expense, let us hope that everything can be arranged so we can get cracking on matters tomorrow.
We now adjourn till 9 o'clock tomorrow morning.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
