MS DAWSON: Collette Deborah Dawson.
MR STEENKAMP: And where are you currently staying and where do you work?
MS DAWSON: I'm currently working at the Sound Stage in Midrand and I live in 5 Paul Street, Glenvista, Johannesburg.
MR STEENKAMP: At the time of the incident, in 1988, you were 18 years old and you were staying in Vanderbijlpark, am I right?
MS DAWSON: No, I was still staying in Glenvista.
MR STEENKAMP: Glenvista. Can you say something to the Committee about this incident and what's happened to you, did you suffer any injuries and you have a result of that still problems with the injuries?
MS DAWSON: Yes, as you stated I was 18 years old. At that time I was training to become a tennis professional. With the bomb blast, all the impact went into my back. All the shrapnel from the dustbin went into my back. I was the person closest to the dustbin. I was in hospital that evening. They had to cut out all the shrapnel out of my back. I was off work for two weeks. Five months down the line I collapsed at work with a severe back injury which was caused by the impact of the blast, I was told. All the impact was still stuck in my back. I was paralysed for three months in hospital. I had to have extensive physiotherapy in order to walk again and to basically carry on a normal life and at that point I was basically told that my plans to be a tennis professional was then over and basically that was the injuries. I still suffer from extensive back pain and have to have physiotherapy on an ongoing basis. I have been told that that will have to carry on for life and there's also the possibility that I might not be able to bear children purely because of the fact that my back will not be able to stand the added weight and the impact of the pregnancy. That is not proven but it's basically a risk that I have to face if I ever want children.
MR STEENKAMP: Ms Dawson, you've heard the evidence of the applicants today. You've listened to them. You've also had the opportunity to look at the applications and the statements. What is your feeling about the applications and applicants themselves today after listening to their evidence?
MS DAWSON: Well I can certainly understand the reason why they did what they did but I think it just needs to be put on record that while they had no plans to kill or to cause serious damage, many peoples lives were affected, not only the people that were injured but all of our family and friends. I do know that I was not the only one that was badly injured. Two of the friends that I know personally, one guy had a heart attack straight afterwards, another lady is in hospital at present having a back operation, also I believe was caused by the blast as well, so I just felt that that does need to be taken into account that when these decisions are made, people's lives do get affected and while that was the intention, we have suffered as a result and on a personal note, I just feel it was very ironic that being 18 I had not even had a chance to vote for any regime whether it had been the previous regime or not, but purely I was an innocent bystander in the whole thing and I just hold that as a difficulty to deal with, the fact that innocent people were intended to be suffered because of that incident.
MR STEENKAMP: Is there anything else you would like to add?
MS DAWSON: No, that is all.
MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Madame Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR STEENKAMP
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Dawson. I think it will be appropriate for this Committee to thank you for your attendance today at our hearing. We know this attendance triggers terrible memories to you and as you have searched during these proceedings and relieved your painful experience, we hope that your life which has been adversely affected will somehow with God-speed and grace find something positive with the passage of time. Time is a healer, that's the only thing that I think will enable you to move forward, at least today you will be able to put behind your terrible experience now that you have been able to come face to face with the perpetrators of the terrible deed that happened to you. This is a very painful process but we hope that this process will enable you to be stronger and that last to lead your normal life the best way you can notwithstanding your terrible injuries. We thank you.
MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Madame Chair, I will not be calling any further witnesses.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Koopedi?
MR KOOPEDI: Perhaps one should just add for completeness sake, Chairperson, that as it has become common practice in all matters that I am involved in, whether for applicants or for victims and also in line with the reconciliation that we so much speak about, the applicants would meet with the victim after the proceedings and we thought that it would not be necessary to put on record what they're meeting about but I could assure the Committee it's purely a reconciliatory act on the part of the applicants.
CHAIRPERSON: We are happy that you've brought this to our attention, Mr Koopedi. We always hoped that this process also has that very important objective of reconciling the victim with the perpetrators. We are happy that you will be able to do that because I think that Ms Dawson will truly appreciate your gesture
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Madame Chairperson we have discussed this matter.
CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed to legal argument.
JUDGE DE JAGER: Mr Steenkamp, we've been made aware of another victim who is presently in hospital and she seems to know another one. You couldn't trace victims but you should try and get the addresses of those so that they could be forwarded.
MR STEENKAMP: Absolutely, Madame Chair, we're already in the process of doing so. Unfortunately I was not aware of that but those victim's addresses will definitely be submitted to the Committee as well as soon as possible. Even today.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Steenkamp. Mr Koopedi?
MR KOOPEDI IN ARGUMENT: Thank you Chairperson, I will try to be brief in my address. Honourable Chairperson, Honourable Committee Members, my submission to you is that the applicants before you were at the material time members of a political organisation being the ANC. They were also members of it's armed wing known as MK, uMkhonto weSizwe.
I further submit that these applicants have to the best of their recollection informed this Honourable Committee and everyone present here of the role they played in the two incidences and my submission is therefore that they have complied with the requirement, the requisite of full disclosure. These are applicants who had no pressure to come before you. The one applicant was convicted and released on indemnity. One of the applicants was never mixed with this matter, that is Mr Dube. The last applicant, Mr Mthembu, was arrested and released after seven months, even police could not put everything to him but in terms of fully disclosing what happened and in terms of indeed taking forward the message of reconciliation, these applicants came before you and asked for amnesty for the deed that they did.
I would submit, Chairperson, that perhaps it was an error on my part not leading the evidence in as far as whether there was any personal gain which any of these applicants received but it is my submission, Chairperson, that for an act of this nature and the result having been just explosions where no money was involved I would submit that these applicants did not receive any personal gain.
CHAIRPERSON: There is documentary evidence to that. We do have their original applications.
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chairperson, I am indebted. It is on the basis of that very brief submission that I submit that these applicants have complied with the requirements for being granted amnesty and I would ask that they be granted amnesty for having exploded the Vanderbijlpark - the Vanderbijl Square Bus Terminus and also having exploded or caused an explosion at the Naladi Power Station in Soweto and thank you, Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: In respect of which acts, omissions or offences is amnesty sought for Mr Dube?
MR KOOPEDI: In respect of Mr Dube, amnesty is sought for him having supplied the explosives that were used in this instance. Amnesty is also sought in terms of him having gained knowledge of the impending attacks or operations but did not notify the police in that it was an offence, I believe during those days in terms of the Terrorism Act to have such information and not pass it on to the police. I would perhaps go on and say in terms of the second applicant, Mr Mokati, amnesty is being applied for having caused the explosion. He was charged with high treason, it was a treasonable offence, there were other sub-charges so to speak which were terrorism related. He was also in possession of explosives, he also had knowledge that at a certain stage the Vanderbijl Square Bus Terminus and the Naladi Power Station would be bombed but he did not give this information to the police.
With regard to the last applicant, Mr Mthembu, Mr Mthembu was at all material times, I submit, acting under orders. Both orders from his commander, I would say his natural commander was Mr Dube. Mr Mthembu was seconded to Mr Mokati's unit. He still acted under orders and I would ask the Honourable Committee to view him as that person who did all he did under orders. Thank you Chairperson.
JUDGE MOTATA: But wouldn't Mr Dube in this instance, because he had knowledge of the Vanderbijl Square Bus Terminus and supplied the material after having been informed of what is going to happen there, that he participated, he had an act which he participated that he wouldn't be in common purpose with the others because there is something he did, by supplying a limpet mine?
MR KOOPEDI: I am not sure that I follow your lordship's question but I would say that Mr Dube's application would centre precisely around the knowledge that he had of the impending attacks and of course the supplying of these weapons. He would not have personally participated on the day of the explosions but he is to a certain extent an accomplice to this matter by the mere fact that he participated in the discussion and had knowledge about what was going to happen and even went further and seconded one of his unit members to go and assist in this matter.
JUDGE DE JAGER: He supplied the explosives?
MR KOOPEDI: That is correct my lord, I have said so that he supplied the explosives.
JUDGE DE JAGER: I see on page 35 we've got a list of damaged property so I presume that you're asking amnesty for all offences connected and following out of these incidents?
MR KOOPEDI: That is so, my lord.
NO FURTHER ARGUMENT BY MR KOOPEDI
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Koopedi. Mr Steenkamp?
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair as I've indicated previously, Ms Dawson is not opposing the application and maybe just for the record refer you to page 34, where a full list of all the victims does appear.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR STEENKAMP: The two persons that we've been referring to, the one being Ms Whiting, number 14, the person who is currently in hospital, Ms Juanita Vivian Whiting, we know where her parents are now situated but we'll get the full address and the other person we're not quite sure of, it is number 11, Mr Robyn Richard Els. Those are the two people that Ms Dawson was referring, no 11 and no 14 and I can just for the record state that during our preparation in this matter we could confirm that those were the 19 people actually injured in this specific incident. Nobody else as far as our knowledge serves us, who were injured in this matter. Thank you Madame Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Steenkamp and Mr Koopedi. Now that during these proceedings it has come to our attention that Mr Robyn Richard Aus and Juanita Vivian Whiting could not have been located by your office in terms of the steps and the measure you took in trying to locate them because they are hospitalised, I think it would be prudent and in the interest of fairness and equity that these proceedings be forwarded to them and that they be notified in terms of Section 30 of our Act in order to enable them to make any representations if they do so require. In response to the applications made by the applicants before us, before we can decided ultimately on these applications.
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair, I will endeavour to go and visit these victims personally, even this week or early next week.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR STEENKAMP: Explain the position to them and exactly what has happened and if necessary a typed record will be handed to them or at least a copy of all the documents that were submitted to the Amnesty Committee in this matter, at least will be submitted to them and I will, the moment I get a response, I will inform the Committee and Mr Koopedi, if that can be arranged. I will do that immediately. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. I think because we are a hard pressed Committee which really is operating on a shoestring in terms of time we would be happy if you could indicate to us what time limit we should give for representations to be made by the two victims in order to be able to dispose of this matter in due course?
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair, I think it is a question of getting to them and speaking to them. I would humbly request that the time say until next week, Tuesday which I think will basically be a week from today.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, will that be sufficient in view of the fact that you might actually need the typed record of these proceedings?
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair, I doubt that if that is necessary because the statements are basically forming the typed record.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes basically.
MR STEENKAMP: That was my view, at least giving because that is the basis of the testimony, it's only the sworn statements. Giving that to them I would doubt if they would be interested, with all due respect, to what I've said and what everyone else has said so what I will suggest I do is get the full records, the copies of the statements and the bundles and prepare that, submit that to them and get their response and if I could get say, because we're sitting this week, I can maybe just speak to them on Monday morning. I'll immediately give you feedback.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
MR STEENKAMP: Thank you Madame Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: In the event there are representations such representations will be forwarded to Mr Koopedi as well as to the Committee. In the event that you should receive such representations, Mr Koopedi, we'll afford you two weeks within which to make your response, your written response to those representations.
MR KOOPEDI: I have noted that Chairperson and clearly would go along with the suggestion that all the victims that can be traced at this stage be supplied with the ...(intervention)
CHAIRPERSON: No, only two victims, our ruling is only respect of the two victims we've identified.
MR KOOPEDI: That's okay, the two victims be supplied with the statements and the bundle of documents and I have made a note that in the event one needs to make a further submission it should be done within two weeks from the date of receipt.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well this brings us to a close of our proceedings in respect of these applications. We wish to thank Mr Koopedi and Mr Steenkamp for their assistance rendered by them to this Committee. You are now excused Mr Koopedi.
MR KOOPEDI: I thank you Chairperson. Before I leave could I refer you to another matter?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR KOOPEDI: And find out whether we have been furnished with the argument by Mr Schultz. Chairperson, you might recall that's an argument which we must receive today. I have to leave town and I would be very much privileged if I could have a copy of that document if indeed same is ready. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes we had a visit this morning by Mr Schultz in which I think the legal argument, his legal argument was given to us. We're made to believe that a copy thereof had been sent by fax to your office. However, if you do not have such a document, Mr Steenkamp will gladly give you one because I'm sure he also has a copy, then we can just make a photocopy for Mr Steenkamp from our documents.
MR KOOPEDI: I thank you Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes.
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair, may I ask if Ms Dawson may be excused from further attendance?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Ms Dawson you are excused.
MR STEENKAMP: Madame Chair, I don't want to sound insensitive but the next matter is a matter that's been standing down. My colleague, Mr Richard, has just appeared, just arrived here and it's the first time I will ask for indulgence, Madame Chair, normally - I see it's about 11 o'clock, I would ask for some indulgence specifically on behalf of Mr Richard to discuss the coming matter. He's appearing for two applicants and supply him with certain background documentation. If a break or at least some adjournment can be taken say until half past eleven and maybe not later than that, if that's possible?
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, we'll adjourn until 11.30. Shortly before we commence we would like to see Mr Richard in chambers.
MR STEENKAMP: I'll do so, Madame Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
COMMITTEE ADJOURNS
