CHAIRPERSON: Is your surname du Preez Smit or just Smit?
MR SMIT: Just Smit.
C J DU PREEZ SMIT: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Please be seated.
EXAMINATION BY MR VISSER: Mr Smit, you are also an applicant in this incident concerning Mr Serache?
MR SMIT: That is correct yes.
MR VISSER: On page 112 of your application, your written application you followed the method in that a certain period, you were involved in certain incidents concerning Botswana and then you mentioned certain incidents during that period, is that correct?
MR SMIT: Yes, that is correct.
MR VISSER: And you mentioned or dealt with it as incident 1, the attack in Gaberone, is that the Serache incident?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: You studied Exhibit A and B?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: Concerning the section on Botswana, do you confirm that?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: Is this in line with your experience and knowledge?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: Do you confirm also the contents of the amnesty application?
MR SMIT: That is correct yes.
MR VISSER: Can you just tell the Committee what your knowledge and recollection is concerning the facts and circumstances of this attack on the facility of Mr Serache?
MR SMIT: Mr Chairperson, I was at the meeting, I mentioned it was in Zeerust, but it was between Zeerust and Ottosdal. Everybody that was mentioned that was present there, I can confirm that. There was also a Muller, he was a General, he is deceased.
At this meeting we made the decision that the facility of Serache must be attacked by the Defence Force and that the people would be killed.
MR VISSER: Could we just get some more information concerning this. What was your rank and position in 1985?
MR SMIT: I was a Lieutenant and I worked under the command of Gen Crause. I was a field worker, and I was involved in the collection of information from Botswana.
MR VISSER: And the high command, was that Gen Steyn?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: This Mr Muller who you have just referred to, where did he come from?
MR SMIT: If I can remember correctly, he was the Security Branch Commander of Soweto.
MR VISSER: I think it was Gen Steyn who referred to it that Soweto or Brig Loots has referred to that they were also represented there?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
MR VISSER: The information that you could convey, did you have any role in that?
MR SMIT: Yes.
MR VISSER: Where did you get this information from?
MR SMIT: It came from my informants.
MR VISSER: Very well. Did you handle only informants or did you get your information from other sources?
MR SMIT: The informants played both roles.
MR VISSER: You heard what Gen Steyn and Brig Loots said concerning the type of information that was available concerning Mr Serache?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
MR VISSER: Do you agree with that?
MR SMIT: I agree with it, yes.
MR VISSER: Was there an urgency ...
CHAIRPERSON: Everybody had information about Mr Serache?
MR SMIT: Chairperson, our office in Zeerust had various members who had different informers operating in Botswana.
CHAIRPERSON: So there were different handlers?
MR SMIT: Yes, handlers.
CHAIRPERSON: And you in the office, or wherever brought it together?
MR SMIT: Yes, we brought everything together.
CHAIRPERSON: Did the Defence Force also have information at their disposal?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
CHAIRPERSON: And would the information then be co-ordinated at the planning session?
MR SMIT: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: So that you had all the information together?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
MR VISSER: Did you have any knowledge of persons who were killed or injured during the attack?
MR SMIT: No Chairperson.
MR VISSER: Do you accept from the Investigating Team from the TRC that there were two people who were injured?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
MR VISSER: And that the date was the 13th of February 1985, that was the date of this attack?
MR SMIT: Yes, that could be correct, I accept it as such.
MR VISSER: Then you request amnesty also in the same regard as Gen Steyn for your share in this incident?
MR SMIT: That is correct.
MR VISSER: That is the evidence, thank you Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VISSER
CHAIRPERSON: Do you know whether these people from the Defence Force have applied for amnesty?
MR SMIT: No Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Do you not know?
MR SMIT: No, I do not know.
MR KOOPEDI: There are no questions for this witness.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI
ADV STEENKAMP: I can maybe just assist, I have checked the records, and we haven't received any application for people that was indicated in these applications, except one person, Mr Kat Liebenberg, he is deceased. There is no reference to this specific incident in his application.
NO CROSS-EXAMINATION BY ADV STEENKAMP
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR VISSER: Chairperson, I am not sure whether I made myself quite clear, but you will not find apart from as my learned friend, Mr Steenkamp points out, Mr Kat Liebenberg, he was the only member of the Defence Force who applied for amnesty for cross border raids, none of the others have applied, due to the legal opinion which they have received.
Those are the facts.
MR MALAN: Sorry, just before you proceed Mr Visser, but Kat Liebenberg didn't apply for this incident?
MR VISSER: I don't think he applied for this incident, but I remember that he was castigated because he was the only one that did apply.
MR MALAN: That is right.
MR VISSER: Initially, and I think there may have been one, it was also a general request yes, but he applied for the Nietverdiendt one specifically. Not as far as my knowledge is concerned, for this one.
I call Gen Schutte Chairperson, he is ready to take the oath, he has no objection to taking the oath and he wishes to address you in Afrikaans.
