WILHELM RIAAN BELLINGAN: (sworn states)
ADV BOSMAN: The applicant is sworn, Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Advocate Bosman. Mr van der Merwe.
EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DER MERWE: Thank you, Mr Chair.
Mr Bellingan, you are an applicant in this matter and your application appears on page 120 up until page 345, is that correct?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Do you confirm the correctness and truthfulness of your application in as far as your recollection goes?
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Your application is specifically then contained, concerning this matter, from page 337 in the bundle.
MR BELLINGAN: That's correct, Mr Chairperson.
MR VAN DER MERWE: During this incident you were a member of Vlakplaas and you fell under the commander of the Commander, Mr Eugene de Kock.
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Do you confirm that you were not involved before in this incident and that you were only involved by Col de Kock, who gave you the instructions to participate in it?
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Your role in this operation, can you just shortly tell the Committee what you had to do.
MR BELLINGAN: Mr Chairperson, I drove the covert kombi to transport the people who were involved in this, from Vlakplaas to the scene, I then waited in that area and then observed certain areas and monitored the police radio for the police and while they were busy and got into the kombi, I then took a detour and took them back to Vlakplaas.
MR VAN DER MERWE: In other words, you yourself were never in the building itself?
MR BELLINGAN: No, Mr Chairperson.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Mr de Kock testified yesterday that you were in charge of a group of people and that you were also tasked to, I think, monitor the fire brigade.
MR BELLINGAN: That's correct, Chairperson, or anybody in that area who could give us any problems at that stage.
MR VAN DER MERWE: You confirm that in this matter you had nothing to do with Khanya House.
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Was this the first time that you were in the area of Khanya House with an operation of this nature?
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Did you return back to the scene at any stage?
MR BELLINGAN: No, Mr Chairperson.
MR VAN DER MERWE: During the planning session that took place at Vlakplaas, can you assist us if there was an indication that they expected people to be in this building?
MR BELLINGAN: No, not as far as I can recall, Mr Chairperson.
MR VAN DER MERWE: The instruction that was given to you and the reason why you had to participate in this operation, what was the purpose of it?
MR BELLINGAN: It was to set Khanya House alight because it was used by terrorists, that was the explanation that was given to us as far as I can recall.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Very well. If I can just ask you briefly and if I'm not going to ask you this, my learned colleague will, your political motive to participate in this operation, appears on page 341 and the purpose was to destroy a building that was used by the ANC as a basis for the revolutionary war against the Republic of South Africa. Ms Cambanis has mentioned before that the ANC did not make use of this building but the church used it, but was this the way in which you interpreted this instruction?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, that's they way I interpreted it, because we got the instruction from the Stratcom desk and I do not think they would have attacked an innocent church building, there was a reason behind it and that's how it was explained to me.
MR VAN DER MERWE: You yourself did not have any evidence that the ANC specifically operated from this building?
MR BELLINGAN: No, Mr Chairperson.
MR VAN DER MERWE: You were a footsoldier in this matter, who followed the instructions of Col de Kock, and did not have a say in the choosing of the target or the evaluation of the target.
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MR VAN DER MERWE: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR VAN DER MERWE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Hattingh?
MR HATTINGH: Thank you, Mr Chairman, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR HATTINGH
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Nel?
MR NEL: Thank you, Mr Chair, I've got no questions for Mr Bellingan.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR NEL
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Wagener?
MR WAGENER: I have no questions, thank you Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR WAGENER
MR BUNN: Thank you, Mr Chair, I have no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR BUNN
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Mr Joubert?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR JOUBERT: Thank you, Honourable Chair, I only have one issue which I'd like to clarify.
Mr Bellingan, on page 338 you refer in the first paragraph that Col de Kock also mentioned to you that Brig McIntyre, the Head of the Stratcom desk, gave him the instruction for this specific task. Mr McIntyre's evidence is that there was never any communication between him and Col de Kock, can you deny that or dispute it?
MR BELLINGAN: No, I cannot.
MR JOUBERT: And you then furthermore will accept that any instruction which you received from Col de Kock, possibly was channelled via Col Hattingh and the other persons? ...(transcriber's interpretation)
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes, as I later heard.
MR JOUBERT: I've got no further questions, thank you.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR JOUBERT
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, Mr Joubert. Mr Lamey?
MR LAMEY: Thank you, Chairperson, no questions.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR LAMEY
CHAIRPERSON: Mr du Plessis?
MR DU PLESSIS: I have no questions, Mr Chairman, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR DU PLESSIS
CHAIRPERSON: Mr Cornelius?
MR CORNELIUS: I have no questions, thank you Mr Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR CORNELIUS
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Cambanis?
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS CAMBANIS: Thank you, Chair.
Sir, I just want to understand your answer, you said if it transpired that this wasn't used as an ANC base.
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, as I mentioned on page 341, "the destruction of a building that was used by the ANC as a basis for the revolutionary warfare against the Republic" is a
very wide statement. That is how I interpreted it, today they say it was not the ANC who was involved in it, but that's how I interpreted it when I applied for amnesty.
MS CAMBANIS: But your understanding of what your job was at that point, would be that if it wasn't the base for the ANC, then you have no reason to attack, is that how you understood your job at the time?
MR BELLINGAN: I received an instruction and I followed it.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes, Sir, I accept that, I accept your are a footsoldier and you're following instructions.
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MS CAMBANIS: But why you did follow this instruction was because you were told it was an ANC base.
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, and I believed what they told me.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes. Sir, where was your kombi parked during this operation?
MR BELLINGAN: It was parked at various points around that block, it was Skinner, Bosman and Visagie, or Potgieter or Schubart Streets, because the police bothered me so I had to move around. I was then on the south side or north side and I moved around.
MS CAMBANIS: So when you were in Visagie Street you had sight of Khanya House, the main building?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, it could be so, or it could have been that I drove past it in Schubart Street, I cannot say exactly where, under which tree I stood or where I was.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes, but could you see Khanya House from where you were, at some stage?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, it could be so, I will not dispute that.
MS CAMBANIS: And what did you notice about the building? Lighting?
MR BELLINGAN: I cannot recall today, I will have to lie if I say.
MS CAMBANIS: You don't recall that lights were being put on and off in the building?
MR BELLINGAN: Not what I can recall, no.
MS CAMBANIS: Now Sir, this radio that you refer to at page 338, I don't understand, is that a radio that you would be in communication with Col de Kock, or is that - how does it work, this radio?
MR BELLINGAN: I may have had two radios for internal communication and one to monitor the police patrol frequency, because if I can hear that the stations say there's some suspicious looking characters, I could then warn them through the other radio. If you understand my answer.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes, thank you. The radio control with the members in the operation, was that - what kind of radio was used for that communication?
MR BELLINGAN: It could have been some of our security radios with a closed channel, walkie-talkies.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes, walkie-talkies. And that would have also been for the people who were inside on the operation?
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MS CAMBANIS: And what would be the purpose of having walkie-talkie communication with the people inside the building?
MR BELLINGAN: It would be that if I see suspicious uniformed members or police activities outside and then they had to leave the scene immediately and I would have been able to warn them. That is why I was in contact with Col de Kock and also why I had a monitoring radio.
MS CAMBANIS: Because the main - your first prize is to keep your own men safe?
MR BELLINGAN: That is correct, yes.
MS CAMBANIS: And it's unthinkable that in an operation like this involving so many people, you wouldn't have planned to keep your own men safe?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, that is definitely a possibility.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes. Mr Bellingan, on the top of 338, if I understand, what you understood from the instruction was that it was to destroy - sorry if I could just go back, just over the page
"The building was used for publishing of terrorist propaganda material"
MR BELLINGAN: That's how I interpreted it, yes.
MS CAMBANIS: And the witness prior to you, Mr Tait, you don't recall that it was used as a base for the ANC cadres? What do you recall?
MR BELLINGAN: I will not dispute that.
MS CAMBANIS: But you don't recall hearing that?
MR BELLINGAN: No.
MS CAMBANIS: Could you assist us, do you know at your briefing session, was there subsequent briefing sessions? It seems to be that there were several briefing sessions to different groups.
MR BELLINGAN: I cannot say with certainty, but it could be that we were briefed together and also separately in different groups.
MS CAMBANIS: Mr de Kock has given evidence that there had been some recces carried out prior to the briefing session you attended.
MR BELLINGAN: It may be so that I was part of the late afternoon, driving by, just looking at what the place looks like, it could be so. It's possible that I accompanied him or went alone. I will not dispute it because I do know Pretoria, I had my own vehicle there, so it's not an impossible target that I did not know where it was. I could have gone with them on this reconnaissance.
MS CAMBANIS: And it's possible you were on reconnaissance, do you remember who else was on the reconnaissance?
MR BELLINGAN: I cannot recall today, no.
MS CAMBANIS: Were you told - if you look at WAL du Toit's application on page 313, he talks about the residents of the Catholic Church.
MR BELLINGAN: I cannot recall such a thing, no, I was never in the terrain.
MS CAMBANIS: Thank you, Mr Bellingan. It's become a habit with me, Mr Chair, I apologise, I have to just put something else.
274 of the bundle, Mr Bellingan - I beg your pardon, 275, the top paragraph, it refers to the visit by one, Brig Engelbrecht to Vlakplaas, do you recall being at a - do you recall Brig Engelbrecht visiting Vlakplaas after this?
MR BELLINGAN: I know that I saw him on Vlakplaas, if it was immediately after the incident or when it was, I cannot say with certainty.
MS CAMBANIS: Do you recall identikits being brought to Vlakplaas?
MR BELLINGAN: There was a rumour yes, that some identikits were shown. I do not know who it was, because I never saw it, but I did know about Mr Ras’ evidence in this regard. I was never confronted or questioned about it though.
MS CAMBANIS: And from the rumours that were going around, did you hear that it was alleged that you were recognisable in one of the identikits?
MR BELLINGAN: It was rumour that I heard at a later stage.
MS CAMBANIS: That you were identifiable, that was the rumour?
MR BELLINGAN: No, there was just an identikit and the one looks like me, but I never saw it.
MS CAMBANIS: And was the rumour also that the other identikit looked like Mr Eugene de Kock?
MR BELLINGAN: It's once again a rumour, I never experienced that.
MS CAMBANIS: But from what you heard, you agree with this applicant's information?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes.
MS CAMBANIS: Mr Bellingan, do you know who was armed - were you armed that night?
MR BELLINGAN: I believe I would have had my official weapon with me, a false police record. If we were confronted we would have said we were from the Diamond Branch, but I'm sure that I had my own weapon with me.
MS CAMBANIS: Mr Bellingan, in the bundle there's reference to a witness noticing a kombi vehicle with false registration plates. That would have been the modus operandi, Mr de Kock has already said that you would have used false ...
MR BELLINGAN: Yes.
MS CAMBANIS: That same witness refers to citing 11 persons inside the kombi and cites that were black people present, black members.
MR BELLINGAN: Chairperson, I cannot recall, it is possible. I do not see any of the applicants that are black, because I do know that it was a covert kombi, it was a closed one that you cannot see from the outside in and it could be that there were other people.
MS CAMBANIS: It's possible that some of the black members of the police were present that night?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, but I cannot say with any certainty.
MS CAMBANIS: Yes.
MR BELLINGAN: I have got no recollection of it.
MS CAMBANIS: Thank you, Mr Bellingan. Thank you, Chair.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS CAMBANIS
CHAIRPERSON: Before I give you an opportunity, Ms Patel, I've been requested to make an announcement that a white bakkie with the registration letters and numbers, DNC 521 NW, is blocking some way. If such a person is with us here, could you quickly just move the bakkie.
Thank you, you may proceed Ms Patel.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS PATEL: Thank you, Honourable Chairperson.
Mr Bellingan, just one aspect. Was there a report-back meeting after the operation, at Vlakplaas?
MR BELLINGAN: I believe we did gather together to hand in the weapons again, but I believe Col de Kock would have reported to somebody, it's logical, but there wasn't again a very big meeting or something like that.
MS PATEL: Okay. So at this meeting - the purpose of that meeting would have been just to see that everybody is safe, there wouldn't have been a report-back, as far as you recall?
MR BELLINGAN: Yes, and all equipment was safe, we could not leave behind a weapon or something like that.
MS PATEL: Alright. Thank you, Honourable Chairperson.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS PATEL
CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Bosman?
ADV BOSMAN: I have no questions, thank you Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Advocate Sandi?
ADV SANDI: I've got no questions, thank you Chair.
CHAIRPERSON: Any re-examination?
MR VAN DER MERWE: No thank you, Mr Chair.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR VAN DER MERWE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Bellingan, you are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR VAN DER MERWE: Mr Chairman, that concludes the evidence to be adduced on behalf of Mr Bellingan, I believe that Mr Wagener will now be leading Mr du Plessis.
MR WAGENER: Mr Chairman, the next applicant will be Mr du Plessis. You will find his application in the bundle from page 208 and onwards. He will testify in Afrikaans and he will take the oath.
