MS BURTON
[indistinct]
ROSY HUGO Duly sworn states
MS BURTON
[indistinct]
UNKNOWN
The interpreters can not hear the victim.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] the evidence for Ms Hugo.
DR RAMASHALA
Thank you, hello Ms Hugo, can you hear me all right?
MS HUGO
I can hear you, thank you.
DR RAMASHALA
You have come to tell us about what happened in 1986 when you were a leader in the community, you were one of a council of ten. Will you tell us about what happened to you, please?
MS HUGO
In 1986, on the 12th of June, that is the night that we were arrested. We were arrested in the middle of the night at 2 o‘clock and what I’m not satisfied about is that they always woke up the parent were as they could just ask were a certain person was sleeping and it was cold that night and they woke up my mother and them to ask them where I was sleeping and my mother sent them through to me. And I got up and they stood there as if they were chasing some kind of wild animal.
They couldn’t speak to you in a civilized manner and they couldn’t even knock properly. We got up and they said that we were coming back the same night, so we left - we left for the charge office. They never took any statements or anything from us. When we got there, it was - there were more reservist than anything ells of farmers. That same night we were taken through to Graaff-Reinet, when we got to Graaff-Reinet we just stayed there for a week and we a - we consulted a doctor, but I cannot even say it was actually a doctor because he didn’t even examine us or say anything. He didn’t say what was wrong with a person. Thereafter we were taken to George, we were released from George in November and we weren’t told what the reason for that was - we weren’t given any kind of explanations so we just remained there.
And I discovered there that I was six months pregnant and they were so surprised and wanted to know from me why I didn’t tell them I was pregnant. So I told them that’s because I didn’t know, I just saw my body growing and didn’t even know I was six months pregnant. And I said we - we see doctors here every day, what are they here, just for the eye blind or what is it, because they don’t even - even examine you. They give you more Epson salts that anything ells. I refused I didn’t want to drink Epson salts and that is all I can say. We - we weren’t treated badly or assaulted when - or anything that’s all.
DR RAMASHALA
Ms Hugo, can you tell me why they - they might have come to arrest you. You were - you were in Murraysburg, you were - you must have been quite young at the time. What were conditions like there?
MS HUGO
With - the detectives came for - for investigation, we heard about a certain council - the council of ten - and I told them that the reason for the council of ten is that we were complaining about our houses, because I had worked for 11 years, complaining about my mother’s illness and for 11 years we had to just continue spreading ourselves because the houses were far to small. The people coming from the farms were people that got houses much easier. They came with their livestock but now we people that were born and bred there did not - were not given any houses.
DR RAMASHALA
So this council of ten was an organization that was campaigning for better houses for people in Murraysburg, is that right?
MS HUGO
They tried to give us better living space, but we couldn’t succeed in that because the police gave them uphill about that because they didn’t want to listen to us.
DR RAMASHALA
And you were not involved in any other political activity?
MS HUGO
They chose me - they - I was elected onto the council of ten.
DR RAMASHALA
And for that you spent many months in detention?
MS HUGO
That is what they predicted, that they were taking us as the council of ten.
DR RAMASHALA
Do you give us, in your statement, the names of the people who arrested you, but you say that nobody ill treated you?
MS HUGO
No, I wasn’t treated badly.
DR RAMASHALA
[indistinct] have proper medical attention and they didn’t even explain to you that you were pregnant.
MS HUGO
That is it, and I mean the father of the children has run away. When we were behind bars, he got away and now I’m sitting with these two children because he’s nowhere to be found.
DR RAMASHALA
[indistinct] how old are your children?
MS HUGO
One will be 13 in September and the other one - has turned - turned 9 years old in February and from the time I was pregnant with the second one, the father’s been missing - for as long as I’ve had the second one the father’s been missing. And both of them are at school.
DR RAMASHALA
[indistinct] are you working in Murraysburg?
MS HUGO
I cannot work because who’s going to take care of them? They have to cleaned every - they have to be attended to, they are still to young to see to themselves and there is no work in Murraysburg.
DR RAMASHALA
Thank you very much.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you, chairperson. Were the council of ten all people from Murraysburg?
MS HUGO
Yes, they were people from Murraysburg.
ADV POTGIETER
Were you elected at a meeting at - of the community?
MS HUGO
Yes, to the council of ten.
ADV POTGIETER
But at the time you were elected as a member of the council, what were you doing?
MS HUGO
We always used to go to the offices of the municipality to try and state our case, but there were always about two or three of us. There weren’t always ten of us, I mean because you’d still be standing there without even having said much and the police vans would be called in.
ADV POTGIETER
At the time that you were elected to the council of ten, were you employed by the municipality or...[intervention]
MS HUGO
I wasn’t working at the municipality because we were just people you could see that the community had certain needs and that’s why we were elected so that we could know what the needs of the community were.
ADV POTGIETER
Were you always present when the delegation would be sent to the municipality?
MS HUGO
Yes, I was always present.
ADV POTGIETER
And the other 9 persons that were on that council, were they all arrested?
MS HUGO
They were all on the list.
ADV POTGIETER
And how many of the ten were arrested and detained?
MS HUGO
There were always 4 or 3 of us - we didn’t always go because the others represented people at their work.
ADV POTGIETER
So at the time that you were locked up on the 12th of June 1986, were there other members of the council of ten, who were arrested with you?
MS HUGO
Yes, Janet Quimen. Janet, myself, Arend and Samuel - although Samuel wasn’t a member of the council of ten, but he was also arrested - the four of us were arrested.
ADV POTGIETER
Did they eventually arrest most of the members of the council of ten?
MS HUGO
I cannot say because we were - we were separated. The four of us were in George - I don’t know what became of the rest - but when we were released we heard that some of them were taken to other places such as PE and so forth.
ADV POTGIETER
Did you understand your arrest to be merely because you are a member of the council of ten?
MS HUGO
Let me put it this way - I would say it could be because the detective from
Graaff-Reinet said that here - that was because we were members of the council of ten and we were arrested because we were the council of ten and most of the information he wanted, I told him not to ask me because it was their work and I couldn’t do their work for them. And they were not going to come to us with lists of names about things we didn’t know about.
ADV POTGIETER
And the main thing that the council of ten was looking at was the housing plight of the people?
MS HUGO
Yes, the housing and the unfair discriminatory system.
ADV POTGIETER
And as far as you were concerned you hadn’t committed any offenses, you merely went there because you were elected and to represent the plight of the people.
MS HUGO
No because there weren’t any such crimes in Murraysburg.
ADV POTGIETER
So did the council of ten - after your arrest was the council of ten dissolved - did it cease to exist?
MS HUGO
Yes, everything ceased to exist because it’s a small place.
ADV POTGIETER
So do you think that the reason that the police arrested you and a few other people was to disband the council of ten - to cease their activities?
MS HUGO
It has to be because the woman’s league and everything ells has been disbanded.
ADV POTGIETER
And what has since happened to the complaints of the people about their houses?
MS HUGO
People are still battling, they are still oppressed, they still live in chanteys.
ADV POTGIETER
And has there never since been a structure that’s been established after the council of ten, is there no civic organization or anything?
MS HUGO
No, not as far as I know.
ADV POTGIETER
And you say that the complaints are still the same?
MS HUGO
Yes, everything is still the same.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you
MS SEROKE
Ms Hugo, you say that you’ve got two children and that your husband has disappeared and you are out of work. How do you manage to bring up these children, who helps you financially?
MS HUGO
The two married sisters always give us something to eat, but they cannot contribute towards everything such as clothing or school uniforms and things like that. But as far as food is concerned they’ll always give us a bit of food and we’ve got to find ways to survive and it was just very difficult, you couldn’t always put your case forward and in 1994 I applied here at Fort Beaufort - at Beaufort West and I am still waiting for a reply.
MS SEROKE
Ms Hugo, thank you very much for coming to tell us this picture of Murraysburg as it was in ’86 and of the problems that still persist today. We’re very grateful to you for coming, thank you.
MS HUGO
Thank you.
