REVD XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Will you please get up. We will start with Lizeka.
LIZEKA ROSY NDONI: (sworn states)
REVD XUNDU: Thank you. Now, Nolifisi Evelyn Molose.
NOLIFISI EVELYN MOLOSE: (sworn states)
REVD XUNDU: Thank you. Thank you Chairperson. We are going to start with Ms Lizeka Rosy Ndoni. I am going to lead her and then Nolifisi Evelyn Molose will be led by Ms Maya.
Ms Ndoni, I notice that your evidence is on behalf of Buyisile Ndoni. How are you related to him?
MS NDONI: He is my child.
REVD XUNDU: How old was he at the time of the incident?
MS NDONI: I have forgotten.
REVD XUNDU: According to your statement he was 15 years of age. You say this happened in 1985?
MS NDONI: Yes, sir.
REVD XUNDU: You said that he died in jail under circumstances that are not clear?
MS NDONI: That is so.
REVD XUNDU: Could you tell us more about Buyisile Ndoni before he passed away in prison?
MS NDONI: He was a student, we were all together at home and police came. We were drinking tea and they just arrested
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him.
REVD XUNDU: Before he was arrested, was he a member of the ANC?
MS NDONI: Yes, he was.
REVD XUNDU: Are there other things that he participated in at school?
MS NDONI: Well, I would not know.
REVD XUNDU: Was he politically orientated?
MS NDONI: Yes, he was.
REVD XUNDU: So you say that police came at home and he was arrested?
MS NDONI: Yes?
REVD XUNDU: What kind of police?
MS NDONI: I don't know.
REVD XUNDU: Who was at home when the police arrived?
MS NDONI: It was us and the children.
REVD XUNDU: What do you mean us, do you mean you and the father?
MS NDONI: No, the father was not there, he was at work.
REVD XUNDU: So it was you and the children?
MS NDONI: Yes, it was.
REVD XUNDU: What reasons did they give for arresting him?
MS NDONI: They did not give any reasons.
REVD XUNDU: Did they say where they were taking him?
MS NDONI: No, they did not.
REVD XUNDU: So then he was arrested?
MS NDONI: Yes.
REVD XUNDU: Did you take any steps at home as parents whose children had been arrested? So your child was arrested by the police, so what happened then?
MS NDONI: We were all at home. I just started crying, I
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didn't say anything, I didn't do anything. He was then sentenced. There was a court case before that.
After he was sentenced he was imprisoned at St Albans. On a Thursday at about nine o'clock in the morning I saw a police van. They asked if Buyisile Ndoni is my child, I said yes. They said that they have then come to inform me that he had passed away. That was the last I heard until I woke up at a Doctor's surgery.
REVD XUNDU: When Buyisile was imprisoned, accused and sentenced for public violence, were there others who were accused with him?
MS NDONI: Yes, there were a lot.
REVD XUNDU: There are two names that you have mentioned in your statement. Do you remember who they are?
MS NDONI: Yes, I do.
REVD XUNDU: Can you tell us please? You said it was Mzwabantu Molose and Gerald Ndinge, where are they now?
MS NDONI: Mzwabantu has passed away.
REVD XUNDU: Did he also die in prison?
MS NDONI: Yes, he did.
REVD XUNDU: So Constable Koos came to inform you that your son had been stabbed in jail? Did you know Constable Koos previously?
MS NDONI: Yes, we know him. He is a policeman from Pearston.
REVD XUNDU: What reasons did he give for your son having been stabbed?
MS NDONI: He didn't give any reasons.
REVD XUNDU: Did he say who stabbed him?
MS NDONI: No. He just gave me that message and he left. I then fainted and I was taken to a Doctor.
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REVD XUNDU: Did he tell you how much time had elapsed between the time your son was stabbed and the time he gave you the report?
MS NDONI: I did not ask him, because I could not say a word.
REVD XUNDU: Who is Zimasile Gooi?
MS NDONI: It was the witness.
REVD XUNDU: In which way?
MS NDONI: Zimasile was also in jail with him. Zimasile apparently said that if anything happens to my son, then the police would have to repay.
REVD XUNDU: Therefor they were all together in jail?
MS NDONI: Yes, they were.
REVD XUNDU: So what did Zimasile say, what report does he give. What happened in jail?
MS NDONI: When my son died, Zimasile was no longer in the same jail. They wanted to separate the two. They wanted Buyisile to be in solitary confinement.
They wanted to take my son and put him amongst criminals who had been in jail for quite a while.
REVD XUNDU: Is Zimasile here today?
MS NDONI: No, he is in Cape Town, he works there.
REVD XUNDU: Was there a post-mortem after your son passed away?
MS NDONI: No, there was no post-mortem.
REVD XUNDU: Was anybody accused for his death?
MS NDONI: No.
REVD XUNDU: So to this day you do not know who stabbed your son in jail or what happened?
MS NDONI: No, I don't know to this day.
REVD XUNDU: Before Buyisile was jailed, did he gave problems with the police, were they after him?
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MS NDONI: No, there were no such problems.
REVD XUNDU: As someone who was a member of banned organisations, was he not under police surveillance?
MS NDONI: He was.
REVD XUNDU: Were there specific incidents that made it clear that the police were looking for him or wanting him in any way? Do you reconcile the two incidents within you, or do you perhaps think it is the police that stabbed him?
MS NDONI: Well, I can't say whether it is the police or the convicts that stabbed him.
REVD XUNDU: Did you get a Death Certificate?
MS NDONI: No, I did not get one. The people who went to fetch the corpse, must have received the Death Certificate, but I don't know what they did with it.
REVD XUNDU: Did anyone who received the Certificate ever tell you what was written on the Death Certificate?
MS NDONI: They said that they didn't see anything.
REVD XUNDU: Where was he buried?
MS NDONI: He was buried in Pearston.
REVD XUNDU: Was it a peaceful funeral?
MS NDONI: Yes, it was a peaceful funeral.
REVD XUNDU: Did the police limit you in any way?
MS NDONI: No, they just said that we must bury him on a Friday and we must not go to work on Saturday.
So we buried him on the Friday in stead of the Saturday.
REVD XUNDU: Which day would you have chosen?
MS NDONI: We would have chosen the Saturday.
REVD XUNDU: Is that not a limitation that you wanted to bury your son on Saturday in stead of Friday? Are there any orders that you were given by the police?
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MS NDONI: No.
REVD XUNDU: Did they stipulate the number of people that should attend the funeral?
MS NDONI: No.
REVD XUNDU: Did they stipulate and delegate who should speak at the funeral?
MS NDONI: No, they didn't.
REVD XUNDU: Who spoke at the funeral?
MS NDONI: Are you asking about members of the organisation? There were no members of the organisation that spoke.
REVD XUNDU: Who spoke at the funeral?
MS NDONI: There were no speakers from the organisation, no there were none.
REVD XUNDU: Were there people who wanted to talk from the organisation?
MS NDONI: Yes, there were but they were unable to get there.
REVD XUNDU: Therefor you say there were members of the organisation who wanted to come and talk, but they did not get there. Where were they from?
MS NDONI: They were from Port Elizabeth.
REVD XUNDU: Which organisation?
MS NDONI: Their organisation.
REVD XUNDU: Is this the ANC?
MS NDONI: Yes, it is the ANC.
REVD XUNDU: Mrs Ndoni, what are your requests to the Commission today?
MS NDONI: I need a tombstone for my son.
REVD XUNDU: There is another request on your statement. Do you want me to read it for you or would you like to say it yourself?
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MS NDONI: Please read it.
REVD XUNDU: One of your requests here is that you would like a memorial park where people can go to pray. Is that so Mrs Ndoni?
MS NDONI: Yes.
REVD XUNDU: Is that all you have to say Mrs Ndoni?
MS NDONI: Yes, there is nothing else that I would like to say.
REVD XUNDU: Thank you Mrs Ndoni, thank you Mr Chairperson.
MS MAYA: Mrs Molose, let me refer to you. You are going to talk about your son, Mzwabantu Molose also from Pearston, is that so?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, it is so.
MS MAYA: Mzwabantu according to this statement, was arrested like Mrs Ndoni's son.
MS MOLOSE: It is so Ma'am.
MS MAYA: And this was in March 1985.
MS MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am.
MS MAYA: According to your knowledge why was he arrested?
MS MOLOSE: They were in the organisation.
MS MAYA: Do you know the name of the organisation?
MS MOLOSE: The ANC.
MS MAYA: Was he a student or working at the time?
MS MOLOSE: He was working, but he had stopped working at that time.
MS MAYA: After he had been arrested, was he prosecuted and sentenced?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, he was sentenced like all the others.
MS MAYA: What was the accusation?
MS MOLOSE: They were burning down schools.
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MS MAYA: For how long were they sentenced? According to your statement, he was sentenced to five years imprisonment, is that so?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am, it is so.
MS MAYA: Do you know which prison he was taken to?
MS MOLOSE: In East London. They were taken from Pearston to Port Elizabeth, St Albans prison.
MS MAYA: When did you find out that your son had passed away?
MS MOLOSE: It was on a Thursday when somebody came to ask me if I knew that my son is ill. I said no. He was already in East London by then.
We tried to get transport. On the Saturday we were supposed to go to East London but Rossouw came to tell us that my son had passed away.
MS MAYA: How long had he been in prison when he died?
MS MOLOSE: It was quite a while, Ma'am. I don't quite remember.
MS MAYA: Was Mrs Ndoni's son still alive?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, he was still alive, he was in Port Elizabeth.
MS MAYA: So they were arrested at the same time?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, they were.
MS MAYA: What did they say happened to him?
MS MOLOSE: They said that he had swallowed a razor blade.
MS MAYA: Did you get a report from a Doctor?
MS MOLOSE: His elder brothers made sure that there was a post-mortem, but no razor blade was found. They said that there was a whole lot of smoke in his lungs.
MS MAYA: did you get a Death Certificate?
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MS MOLOSE: Yes, somebody has it here in the hall.
MS MAYA: It is okay Ma'am, we will get it another time. Ma'am, were there witnesses in prison who saw the death of your child?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, but the witness that we have is in Cape Town.
MS MAYA: Does that mean you have the same witnesses as Mrs Ndoni? Is that so?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, they were all together, all in the same cell.
MS MAYA: Was there an inquest or did you try and investigate what had happened in the cells?
MS MOLOSE: We were too scared because there was a lot of cruelty from the Boers.
MS MAYA: You could not even get an attorney from the organisation that would help you?
MS MOLOSE: We had a Mr Miya from Uitenhage.
MS MAYA: What happened eventually?
MS MOLOSE: He gave up in the middle of the whole thing, there were no findings as such. He could not continue with the case.
MS MAYA: According to your statement, the wardens would beat your sons up?
MS MOLOSE: That's what we heard from those that were together with them.
MS MAYA: Were you given any names?
MS MOLOSE: Well the one is Zimasile who knows, he left last week.
MS MAYA: I am asking about the perpetrators, do you know anyone's names?
MS MOLOSE: No.
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MS MAYA: And Rossouw, do you know where he is now?
MS MOLOSE: No, I just heard that he is on pension, he has resigned, I don't know where he is, I think he is in George.
MS MAYA: Let us just revert back a bit. When the post-mortem was being performed, you said that there was a family member or did you have a Doctor of your won?
MS MOLOSE: There were 15 people.
MS MAYA: Doctors?
MS MOLOSE: No, children.
MS MAYA: What happened to the children?
MS MOLOSE: They were present during the post-mortem. No, when the post-mortem was being performed, just his elder brother was there.
MS MAYA: Did you have your own Doctor?
MS MOLOSE: No, they brought a Doctor from Cape Town.
MS MAYA: Was it a Government Doctor, this Doctor Airton?
MS MOLOSE: Well, I am not sure, I don't know, I can't remember.
MS MAYA: According to your statement Ma'am, Mzwabantu was 22 years of age. Did he have a child?
MS MOLOSE: No, he did not have a child.
MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am. Is that all you have to say or would you like to add to your statement?
MS MOLOSE: That is all.
MS MAYA: Do you have a request before the Commission?
MS MOLOSE: I would like a tombstone please.
MS MAYA: A tombstone?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, Ma'am.
MS MAYA: You have no other requests? Do you have other children?
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MS MOLOSE: Yes, I have four children.
MS MAYA: How old are they?
MS MOLOSE: It is Mzwanantu's older brothers.
MS MAYA: Thank you Ma'am, I will hand you over to Mr Chairperson now perhaps he has some questions.
MS CRICHTON: Ms Molose, can you hear me, can you hear me?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, I can hear you.
MS CRICHTON: My question is not only to you, but also to Mrs Ndoni, who won't be able to hear me because she hasn't got - thank you, I'm sorry, but I need them both to hear what I have to say.
Can you hear me Mrs Ndoni?
MS NDONI: Yes, I can hear you.
MS CRICHTON: I am going to take you back to the time when your sons died and you were able to see the bodies and I am sorry that I have to raise this, but I must ask you because the stories that you received were that one son had swallowed a blade the other son had been stabbed and in fact you didn't find any stab wounds on his body.
I would like to ask both of you if you could say to me what you think actually happened to your sons? Was there any other indication that you had that there might have been something else that had been done to them?
Can you speak first Mrs Molose?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, I can answer you Ma'am. When they arrested my son, he was well. It is in their hands that he died.
MS NDONI: Yes, Ma'am. I saw no stab wounds, we looked but there were no wounds. When they took him, he was well. It is in their hands that he died.
MS CRICHTON: Are you saying to me that you have no idea
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then why he did die, there was no indication on his body as to why he died, bruises, nothing like that?
MS NDONI: I saw nothing on his body, no wounds on his body.
MS CRICHTON: Thank you, both of you.
REVD FINCA: Mr Sandi?
MR SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mrs Molose, you said that the police were very cruel at Pearston.
MS MOLOSE: Pardon sir?
MR SANDI: You said that the police at Pearston were very cruel?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, they were very cruel sir.
MR SANDI: Could you tell us exactly what they did that reflected this cruelty?
MS MOLOSE: They would beat our children up, they would take them through the night and they wouldn't sleep at home because they would be beaten up by the police.
MR SANDI: Initially you said there were 15 children, are you talking about children that had been arrested or children that had been shot?
MS MOLOSE: All in all there were 15 children.
MR SANDI: Had they been arrested?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, sir, they had been arrested.
MR SANDI: Does this number include your children?
MS MOLOSE: Yes.
MR SANDI: We heard from certain mothers here yesterday and today that before their children had been shot, the police would threaten the children prior to their deaths. Had your children been threatened at all?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, they did threaten. First of all they said that they would give them long sentences, so that there is no repetition of what they did.
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MR SANDI: Who said that?
MS MOLOSE: It was the Magistrate.
MR SANDI: And the police, did they say any like thing? Did they threaten your sons' lives at all?
MS MOLOSE: Koos was the most cruel of them all, a Coloured police.
MR SANDI: Was he staying in Pearston?
MS MOLOSE: Yes, he was working there, he stays there.
MR SANDI: Is he there, where is he now?
MS MOLOSE: If I am not mistaken, he is still there, because he married a woman from Pearston.
MR SANDI: Thank you Mrs Molose, thank you Mr Chairperson.
REVD FINCA: We thank you both very much. We thank you for coming forward with both your stories.
We thank you for telling us what happened at East London at St Albans and East London to Buyisile and Mzwabantu. I personally want to say I found your evidence to be special, unique. I now want to see what type of place Pearston is.
You struck me with your dignity and you just told the truth as is, you did not fabricate anything, you just told the truth as you understood it, that moved me very much.
We thank you for the respect that you have given us reminding us where we come from back home. Where elders show respect even to young people. We thank you very much, may God bless you.
