CHAIRPERSON: Nomakhepu Jane Ntsatha.
MS CRICHTON: Number?
CHAIRPERSON: Number ten.
MS CRICHTON: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Before you sit down, we would like you to take an oath.
JANE NOMAKHEPU NTSATHA: (Duly sworn in, states).
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You may sit down. Dr Smangele Magwaza will lead you with questions.
PROF MAGWAZA: Good morning Nomakhepu.
MS NTSATHA: Morning.
PROF MAGWAZA: We welcome you for having come here today to share us, to share with us such a horrendous experience you have had in your life. From the information I have in the file, you have gone through every possible violation. You have been tortured, you have been beaten, you have been detained and many other things have happened to you. We would like you to share it with us, all those experiences. Can you start by telling us what happened to you starting on the 24th of November 1981 and in the process, Nomakhepu, you can tell us broadly what was happening at that time. There must have been something that was happening at that time. I leave it to you now.
MS NTSATHA: What happened is that the ANC and other political organisation had been banned. I joined the ANC underground in Lesotho. I went, because I have got family in Maseru. I was working for the ANC. I would come in and out of the country. My task was to form cells and stay in Zwelitsha. In 1980 when I joined the ANC I formed cells in Zwelitsha. I got certain Comrades. After that some Comrades wanted to leave the country. I left with them. I had a seven month old baby that I was breast feeding, a boy.
In November I left with the Comrades, Thabo Bashe, Mncekeleli Peter, Phumezo Mene. I have forgotten the other Comrade's name, because he passed away. On the way, we were travelling by train, in Burgersdorp we were waiting for a bus. We realised that we were missing, Phumezo Mene was the only one there. I do not know what happened, but apparently they had gone to the township. It was only the two of us that got onto the bus eventually. There were two brothers. I left with the one. The other had gone to the township. I do not know what he had gone to do at the township. Phumezo and I got onto the bus. We were on our way to Aliwal North.
On the way a car stopped the bus. Khumbula Thabo and other gentlemen came. They identified themselves as policemen. I was with my sister as well. They asked if I was with Cora. They left with Cora. Khumbula Mene, there is also a brother. Phumezo Mene and then there is Khumbula Mene. Khumbula is the one I was with in the bus. After that Thabo gave a signal that these were the police, therefore I did not divulge anything. When we got to Aliwal North towards Stickspruit a Boer and a Black man got onto the bus. They said that they are looking for a woman with two children. It was only myself that was left. I was taken to the Aliwal North Security Branch office.
They asked where I was going. I said I am going to Stickspruit. They asked who I was with. I told them that I was with my sister and my child. They said I was lying. They called other police. There is a Boer, Bezuidenhout, he got onto the table and pulled my hair. He said I must tell the truth, where, I said I was going home. They took something from a sack. He left with the sack as well. They came back with it. It was wet. They put it on my face. I think they referred to it as a canvass bag. They suffocated me. They, my child was crawling at the time. They just gave him a toilet bag to play with. I told them that I was going home. They were slapping me until I fell on the floor. Bezuidenhout sat on my stomach, took my babies little blanket and stifled me on my face.
After that they said they said they were going to detain me. They are going to take my sister and my child and take them home. I asked them to leave the child with me, because my baby was being breast fed at the time. They took me to Jamestown Police Station. I spent the night there. I saw four cars. Thabo was in one of the cars. We came back to King William's Town.
PROF MAGWAZA: Excuse me, Thabo was the other Comrade. I am just clarifying?
MS NTSATHA: Thabo was one of the Comrades. When we got to King William's Town they put us in different rooms. They put me in a particular office. There was a Boer who spoke Xhosa very well. I later heard that his name is Hattingh. He ...
PROF MAGWAZA: What is his name?
MS NTSATHA: Mr Hattingh.
PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.
MS NTSATHA: He said I must tell the truth, tell them where I was going. I told him I was going home. He said that if I do not tell the truth, I was going to be beaten up. The floor was wet. He said a man had been beaten up and urinated on the floor. They said that if I do not tell the truth I was going to be beaten just as much. I insisted that I was going home. They came towards me with a sack. They threw me on the floor somehow. They pulled my legs. They put electric shocks on my breasts, on my stomach and at the bottom. Also, around my jaws, because I would bite my, the inside of my mouth, my oral cavity when they would, I was on shock.
They said I must tell the truth. They said I must go to Hattingh. Hattingh said that I was going to tell the truth. I could not control my bladder because of the electric shocks. I had just given birth as well. Therefore I think there was something around my uterus. Hattingh said I must sit down. I told them eventually that I was from Lesotho, I was recruiting ANC members and forming cells. He asked who was recruiting, who had recruited myself. I said it was Sima. They asked for forgiveness for having tortured me. They asked if I could work for them. They are going to release me. They are only going to detain the rest. They said now and again I would bring them information. They also said that they wanted me to help them with a certain gentleman they wanted in Lesotho. I said that I would not be able to do that. They must just detain me. They said that they would pay for my university fees, give me a car and give me R1 000,00 every month if I worked for them as an informer. After that, the following day they put us together. Thami and them said my eyes had gone blue.
PROF MAGWAZA: Excuse me when you say "Thami and them" it was Thami and whom?
MS NTSATHA: Thabo Bashe, Mncekeleli Peter, Phumezo Mene, Khumbula Mene.
PROF MAGWAZA: Okay.
MS NTSATHA: I told them that I had been beaten up the previous day. I had green bruises all over me. I showed them the bruises. I told them that there were electric shocks that I, they applied on me. We went to Zwelitsha together with Hattingh and them, the police that is. I cannot remember whether they had hand-cuffed me. We went to my house and they found ANC documentation, a Steve Biko portrait, also S Chaba. They took that. They took me to Barkely East Police Station. They told me that I was going to be detained under the Section 6, Terrorism Act.
I stayed with my child in a cell. November, December, January, February. Four months that is. They said that I must give them my life history. I must write it down for them. I did that. One afternoon at about half past four, it was very warm, I was with my child. My baby just had a vest on. They said I must just come quickly. My child cried, because they insisted that I leave him behind. My child was crying. They said that I was talking shit. They said that I must tell them exactly what I did in Lesotho. I had not written down the truth. I told them it was. I said that my baby was crying, I had to go back. They said that they would not release me until I tell the truth. After that a Boer stood behind me and hit me, slapped me from the back.
PROF MAGWAZA: Okay, can you tell us, here you, from the information we have here you were detained, you were sentenced to eight years and you were detained for five years, three months. Is that true?
MS NTSATHA: After I was detained for six months I awaited trial for 11 months. That is when I got ill. It is in King William's Town Prison that I awaited trial. In 1983 I was sentenced. I was sentenced in 1983, eight years imprisonment. They said that it would be five years, three months, my sentence would be running concurrently.
PROF MAGWAZA: Five years, three months?
MS NTSATHA: I served five years. The three months had a fine of R300,00 attached to it. My sister paid the R300,00. I therefore stayed five years in jail.
PROF MAGWAZA: A few other questions to ask. What happened to the other Comrades? Were they also detained?
MS NTSATHA: We were all detained. Whilst in detention we would go to sittings with Magistrates. Mncekeleli Peter and myself would always be put together until we were released from detention six months later. Thabo Bashe was on a, on hunger strike. He was pale. They had beaten him up, because they wanted him to be a State witness. He said he had refused to eat, because he did not want to be a State witness. We then all went to court. Thabo and Khumbula refused to be a State witness. Phumezo was charged with purgery. He was released. Thabo was sentenced to two years imprisonment. Cora, three years. Mncekeleli Peter was my co-accused, also three years.
PROF MAGWAZA: I see here you mention Mr Bezuidenhout as one of the people who tortured you. Is he the only one? Can you, do you have the identify of others? No, no, okay, well I am not going to ask you for the identity of others, but he is the only, is he the person who did most of the torturing, Bezuidenhout?
MS NTSATHA: Bezuidenhout was the Boer that was beating me up at Aliwal North. There were other Black men as well. Sergeant Vusani was there as well. He did not beat me up, however. He said he does not beat up women. He just took my child and held my child in his arms. There were other Black policemen who were beating me up. There was also another White man who was slapping me. In King William's Town Fosche electrically tortured me.
PROF MAGWAZA: One more question. You had said they gave the child to your sister to take him or her away, but now I am made to understand that eventually the child was with you in the cell and for how long was the child with you in the cell and why did he have to come back to be with you in the cell? Can you hear me?
MS NTSATHA: Yes, I can hear you Mam. What happened is they took my sister home after my child had been one year, six months, because when I was arrested my child was seven months old only. Therefore my sister came when I was ill in King William's Town Prison. After six months of trial I could not urinate. I think it is because of the electric shocks. I went to a doctor, I was giving medication. I lost a lot of weight, because the side effects of the medication was loss of appetite. I told my sister that I was not well. When I handed my child over in King William's Town the police came and said I must go back into the cell and eat at the cell at 11 o' clock. They said that they were in a hurry, I must go with my food and my baby into the cell.
When I was in there I washed my plate, but as I was washing the plate the water ran out. As I was trying to flush the toilet as well I could see that there was no water. I realised that there was some gas. I could smell gas coming out of the taps. I realised that I was getting dizzy. My child was sleeping. Whilst I was dizzy the police came. Usually when they come to the cell they make a whole lot of noise and my child would get up. That particular time my child did not get up. They came and said they had come to fix the loo. I said that my child was not waking up. They said what was wrong. I told them there was gas coming out. I took the child and put the baby outside the cell.
A nurse came. This nurse that she did not know what was going on. My throat was very dry because of the gas and I was still dizzy. I went to try drink water from the loo, but I could and I could see from the mirror that I was absolutely pale and my throat was very dry. I was supposed to get a visitor. I saw Vuyisa, my sister, coming to visit me. They said that they are going to close early. I said I was not going to, back to the cell with my child, because they were going to kill me and what I was saying was not coherent. Therefore it was imperative that my sister leave with my child. I could see they wanted to kill me. I refused to go back to the cell. I started screaming so that if, so that if they kill me I would have made some noise so that the other prisoners could hear.
I had read about a certain Dr Aggart. Apparently before he died he had been unconscious standing outside. I thought perhaps they would also want to kill me the way they had killed Dr Aggart. I said that I would not go back to the cell. I made a whole lot of noise. They then said I must take my child to my sister. It was all foggy. Vuyisa then took my child. I went back to the cell. When I got there ...
POWER FAILURE
CHAIRPERSON: If we could proceed with the hearing.
MS NTSATHA: Okay.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your patience. I think your perseverance reflects your appreciation of the work of the Commission. Sometimes we would hear what would happen with the electricity in Mdantsane. Today we have experienced it. This day was supposed to be heard by the entire South Africa. I would hear on the radio that they are waiting to go on with the hearing in Mdantsane, but there is no electricity. Now the entire South African country knows that the electricity in Mdantsane is not reliable. We are going to hand over to Tiny Maya to proceed.
MS MAYA: Thank you Commissioner. Nomakhepu, we apologise, because you were the one who was trying to complete your story. I would like to remind you that you are under oath. You are still under oath as you were sworn in. I would like to remind you that you were telling us about your sentence, five year sentence. As your sentence was five years, three months your sister paid the R300,00 fine to cover the three months. Will you please continue and tell us about your child. Where is your child now?
MS NTSATHA: He was here. He just left. He is at school. He is in standard six.
MS MAYA: How old is he?
MS NTSATHA: He is 16.
MS MAYA: Having stayed with you in prison and having been separated from you, did this affect his life at all?
MS NTSATHA: Yes.
MS MAYA: How so?
MS NTSATHA: First of all, I am an orphan. After my sister took him from prison, she was still at school. He would move from home to home. Eventually he stayed in Zwelitsha, because my sister gave up her education for my brother. His eyes were red for about six years. Even now his eyes are still red. After I got out of jail he did not know me, because he was seven years old. We parted when he was young, one year, six months. He is a very nervous person and we do not have a good relationship. He does not take me as his mother. We do not have a good, substantial relationship. He is closer to my sister than myself. If he could go to a doctor perhaps. He does not do well at school. The teachers do not know what is wrong with him.
MS MAYA: Thank you Nomakhepu. Excuse us. Do you have anything else to add?
MS NTSATHA: I was talking about the gas in the prison, when they were gassing my cell. That gas was very dangerous. After I brought my child back I use to sleep in a bed. They changed it all. They changed the linen. I refused to go in. I asked why they had changed my bedding. I said that they were going to kill me, they had a plot and they were going to say that I had killed myself. I said that they would have to use another method to kill me and not the method they use to kill other Comrades. They called White police to force me in. I refused. They called a doctor to give me tablets. I refused. I was forced into the cell. I was not fully conscious because of the gas. It was at about four. The Head of Prison was there.
MS MAYA: Who was he?
MS NTSATHA: Mrs van Heerden if I was there. Mrs van Heerden. She was there. I got fully conscious the next day. I was just wearing my panties. I was wondering what they were going to say I had committed suicide with, because I had told my sister to take everything home so that they do not say that I had killed myself, hung myself with my dress or whatever. I had taken my dress and put it in the toilet and it was wet. They gave me prisoners clothing.
MS MAYA: You were then released?
MS NTSATHA: Yes. The following week they gassed me yet again. Mrs van Heerden was there yet again. I screamed out and these women, White women, came. Van Heerden asked why I was making such a noise. Van Heerden said I must stop making a noise. If I continue they were going to hang me to. She asked if I know what strangling is all about. She showed me. I then stopped screaming. The next day Mr Maqabie came to visit me. I could not speak properly. I told him that they had tried to gas me to death again. I told him I was scared. They must please find out, they must tell me why they were gassing me. They must tell me the truth, what was the gas they used.
MS MAYA: Do you have other requests?
MS NTSATHA: If I could go to the doctor. I served both in the South African and Ciskeian Prison. I suffered from ulcers. I was eating special food. They would drug this special food of mine. At night my stomach would hurt, it would ache terribly. I ended up refusing eating the food. They were drugging me. I could not sleep, I was insomnic and my stomach would ache. After that they laid charges on me and I went to court within the prison.
MS MAYA: What happened?
MS NTSATHA: Hinzwa was going to represent me legally. The Magistrates were the Ciskeian Police. I won that case representing myself. They could not sentence me, but after that they really ill-treated me. They would not give me any medication even when I was ill. My whole left side was swollen. I suffered from palpitations. My left would hurt all the time. On the Thursday the doctor would not give me medicine. My sister came to visit me. I told her. We could not even finish speaking. They threw me back in. After that they took me to the hospital within the prison.
MS MAYA: So you would like specialists to check what is going on with you?
MS NTSATHA: Yes, I would appreciate that, because my joints hurt sometimes. If, also, they could examine my child.
MS MAYA: Thank you Nomakhepu. Is that all?
MS NTSATHA: Yes Mam. As I have two children, if I could be assisted financially to educate my children.
MS MAYA: Thank you. Maybe the co-panellists would like to ask you further questions. I will hand you over to the Chairperson, the Reverend.
CHAIRPERSON: I thought Ms Maya was the Chairperson. June Crichton would like to ask a question.
MS CRICHTON: Can you hear me Ms Ntsatha?
MS NTSATHA: Yes, I can hear you.
MS CRICHTON: Good. There is just one question, well, actually two, but I need a very short answer from you simply because of the time problems we have. You mentioned that you gave your clothes to your sister, because you thought they might think that you were going to commit suicide or had committed suicide if you were dead. Was that something that had been happening? Had you been hearing about people committing suicide when you knew that that was not the case?
MS NTSATHA: Will you please repeat your question please?
MS CRICHTON: I asked you if you were concerned that people would think you had committed suicide if you died?
MS NTSATHA: Yes, I was very concerned, because I know Comrades like Mabethla, there were rumours that they had committed suicide, but we know that that is not true. Dr Aggart, they said that Dr Aggart had also killed himself, hung himself with sheets. I was in detention when he died. They thought that I did not know how he died. They would take the clothing and say that it is proof that we had committed suicide. I told them specifically that they must try other means. They are not going to kill me the way they killed the other Comrades.
MS CRICHTON: My second question to you just needs you to answer yes or no. Did they, at any stage, try to convince you to become an informer?
MS NTSATHA: Yes.
MS CRICHTON: Thank you very much Ms Ntsatha. I hand you back to the Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you June. As it turns out I am still the, Madam Chair. I thought that when the Reverend came back he would still be chairing. I am terribly sorry about what you have gone through, especially the pain of having been parted with your child. As Dr Magwaza had said, there is nothing that you did not go through, especially because you are a woman. A lot of things that happened to you happened because you are a woman. They would not happen, would have happened were you a man. You were very young when you joined the struggle. We hope that all that has happened to you has not discouraged you. I hope you are strong and you are still positive about life. Thank you. You may step down.
