DR RAMASHALA
Would you stand please.
GEOFFREY YALOLO Duly sworn states
DR RAMASHALA
Thank you - Chairperson I have been assigned to facilitate the testimony from Mr Yalolo.
This case is about the torture of Mr Geoffrey Yalolo by the police. Mr Yalolo it is very important for us to get as much detail as you possibly can remember about your torture, the sequence of events - the circumstances and anything that is - or was unusual to you with respect to this torture.
So would you begin - go back as far as you can to give the circumstances for your arrest and your subsequent torture, thank you.
MR YALOLO
I thank you - in 1996 - in 1986 it was June - it was June in 1986 on the 26th - I was staying with my aunt - what happened in the evening I am not sure it’s either in the evening or morning around about twelve to one on this day of the 26th policeman came - they surrounded the house. Some of them were knocking on the windows, some were knocking on the door. What happened is this, my aunts husband woke up, he woke up and opened the door. As soon as he opened the door, the policeman ran inside the house they were asking for Joseph and he said I am Joseph.
They came inside the house and they approached me. They looked at me and they said I must come along with my uncle. When we got to the police station what they did they took the tyres and put them around us, they said they were going to burn us down, because that’s what we did.
We didn’t say anything not a word, we were just amazed because we don’t know what the policeman were doing. They were just moving up and down in the minute, someone came in that was a comrade - he was handcuffed - they were about to say they are releasing us. They were saying no this is not the people we are looking for.
When about to go to the door, one comrade came in, his name is Citi Bunga - what happened they asked him a question if he can - does he know us and he said yes I do know this people and they asked him who are their names. Citi Bunga first looked at us - they asked him whether - does he know my uncle and he said yes and asked him, his name and he say no I am sorry - I don’t know his name. They asked him my name and he said this is Joseph. The policeman looked at each other and they said to him no this is no Joseph, Joseph is the other one.
They take me and said they were looking for me and he said yes this is Jeff. We were just about to go out - policeman took me. As from them they took me inside and locked me in, after then I don’t know whether they took my uncle home or what happened to him and then the following day the policeman came to the cells where they locked me in.
They took me into one of their offices, when we were inside, they beat me like anything. They took their guns and beat me up, they were standing in corners surrounding me, they sat me behind the table, one was in front of me, sitting just in front of me - they asked me about the incidents that happened in George. He asked me the things that I am doing in George, what am I exactly doing there. Why do I allow everything to happen here, because they heard that I am the one who is the cause of this.
When I told them that I don’t know what they are talking about, they took the table and pushed me with the table and I knocked my head against the wall. They pushed me against the wall with the table - after that they pulled the table. They said I must come closer to them - just because I was afraid and I couldn’t come closer because I hit myself against the wall. Now if you take me, if you said I must come closer again, you will then pull me against - push me against the wall again.
They took me and take me back to the table again. They asked me questions. I told them that I couldn’t answer anything because I know nothing and where you find me is at home. And they said to me that if you are saying that, we have to hit you until you tell us the truth, they started beating me up. They were pulling me down, kicking me - jumping over myself - some were pointing down at me - they tell - they put a coin down and they said I must ran around that coin, if I don’t do that, they will kill me.
That thing happened and the day was over, they were beating me, later that day again they came and handcuffed me, they locked me inside again. Where I was - the way people were asking questions, why are you the only one who is being beaten, my question was I don’t know. I sat there and then the following day the policeman came and fetched me. They took me to one of the offices in York Street, that is the charge office on the third floor.
When I came in there, they put me in one of those offices, they beat me there again. They tied my hands, put me on top of the chairs, they tied my hands together with my feet. They took a plastic and put it on my head - they took another object that I couldn’t identify and put it on top of the plastic and they covered my head and they pulled me, so I don’t know where I was.
After that some people came in I don’t know who were they, they were beating me, each and everyone was coming. Each and everyone who is coming in there, they were asking is this the one and they said yes and then they beat up. That took the whole day.
My people what was happening there was very difficult and it was painful the blood was just flowing. After they finished that, they take off what was on my head, after that they untied me from the chair. They said I must wipe myself. After they told me, I just told them no I can’t because my body was so painful, can you please wipe me. They looked at each other.
One of them come and wipe me and he also wiped the floor. And old man came in and he said to them, what you guys are doing is very wrong. They just looked at each other in silence, after that they beat me up again, my hands was still tied - were tied up. They were kicking me - jumping over me - and they take me back to the cell again. When I came into the cell - these guys were with me, ask me why are you being beaten so much and I told them that I don’t know the reason of this thing - of the situation, maybe there is someone amongst us who said that I did something wrong or maybe because I was the member of the freedom struggle, that’s why I am being beaten.
This thing of being beaten took each and everyday while I was there, I can’t remember how long was I there. I remember one day they took me to that [indistinct] again and while we were there, they took me with my right arm, put me on the table, they hang me. After that they kicked what was under my feet, I was just stayed there hanging. After hanging there for a while - they said to me we are going to - we are going to leave here and please tell us when you are going to say the truth and I told them the truth I am saying is what I am telling you now, I don’t have anything above that. If there is something more you need, I am sorry I can’t provide you with that, I don’t have anything to say now, this is all I can say.
They went off and leave me there - they took me in the morning, it was around about nine and they came back after two, I was still hanging with my right arm, it was swollen, the fingers was swollen and I was turning pale green. When they come back, they just grab me with my feet. After grabbing me one of them says wait a little bit, can you kick him on his testicles.
I couldn’t say anything, unfortunately and fortunately God gave me power. One of them who was trying to attempt to kick me, I had to scratch my leg, it was me who kicked him on his testicles, not him kicking on me. He cried and ran off, when he was out, they came back as a mass with guns - they pulled me - I was still hanging then, they pulled me with my legs - after that, they said to one of them he must untie me and then he did so. He took the handcuff that was locked up, not the one that was in my hand and he asked them are you ready and they said yes we are.
After that they just leave me, I fell down and I went unconscious. I woke up after a while - when I gained consciousness they were kicking me - jumping over me. After a while doing that - they took me back to the cell and locked me in. And when the other fellows asked me Geoffrey what have you done to the boers I told them I did nothing. I am also interested what I did to them - why are they beating me up so much. I was swollen that time, my face was swollen.
Again the following day they did the same routine, when they arrived, I just asked them to take me to the doctor, can’t you see how am I and they say we don’t have a doctor for you. They took me again back to the third floor. When I arrived there, they hang me with my feet - hang me upside down. After doing that, they said they will come back, when you are going to tell us the truth. When they come back they untie - they untie the cuff on the roof and they let me fell down on the floor. I knocked with my head down, they kicked me, they were twisting my arms, they were doing everything that can be painful to me.
I was asking them my dear people what did I do to you, why don’t you kill me rather, because if you kill me I will just die without any pains, because now you are just giving me pains, beating me up, doing everything to me that’s painful and they said to me we only want the truth from you, nothing else. And I told them that I have no truth, this is the only thing that I am saying as far as I know, this is the truth to me and they said to me okay we will show you.
And they beat me up again, they beat me up, it was a non-stop thing, one was making - they were making turns come in and out, beating me up. In the afternoon they take me back to the cell. When I arrived at the cell again, my fellows asked me again what have I done, I just said to him maybe amongst us, there is one who was a sell out and he said I’ve done something to the boers. Or maybe in the community where I am living there is someone or maybe among the comrades that I am working with, there is someone who has said to the boers I have done something.
And then the following day again they came to fetch me as usual. They took me back again to the same room third floor, they did the same thing again, beat me up, beat me up time and again and the person who is in charge there, when they were calling him, they will call him Lieutenant Steyn and there was another guy, Mr Petersen as far as I know.
They sent people again to come and beat me up, again in the evening they take me back to the cells. The following day in the morning, early hours of the morning they came. At that time I couldn’t even walk, I couldn’t even do anything, I couldn’t even talk. My body was swollen - every - each and every part of me was swollen and was painful. Those who were helping me while I was in the cell, it was a next door cell, there were mothers who were there, these ladies were also comrades. They were trying their best to help me, so that they tried to rub myself, unfortunately I couldn’t do that because my body was swollen, I couldn’t even move my arms. In the cells there was one of the comrades known as Sibongile, he was the one who was helping me to massage my body.
In the morning the policeman came in and they said we want Geoffrey, I answered them. They said I must come out, it was difficult for me to stand up. The other comrades inside helped me to stand up, I had to walk slowly going to the door. After I arrived at the door, they called me hey kaffir will you please hurry up. And they say come-come quickly. There were speaking in Afrikaans.
When I said - when I told them not to rush me, because my whole body is painful, can’t you just take me to the doctor, or else just give me pain killers, that will at least help me a little bit because my body is aching a lot, they took my arms, twisting them, put them behind my back and handcuffed me. I cried to them, oh! my fellow people, as I am like this and the one told me not to tell him shit, just come, you dogs of Mandela.
I walked slowly, they take their guns and point at me and I told them there is nothing I can do and there is nothing I am able to do. One of them came behind me and grabbed me on my shoulder and the other one on the other side and then one in front of me - they took me back to the offices, when I arrived in the offices, old men, policemen came out there with red dockets, when they got inside to the office where I was, the policeman took me and pushed me right into the corner and I told them not to do this to me, because my body is very painful. And they said fok off - fok off you bladdy kaffir. I didn’t say a word, they took me and pushed me into the corner, I just begged to them to take me to the doctor, just for the doctor to give me pain killers, that’s the only help I need, nothing more.
This policeman came and asked is this the one, and they said now you must do something about him, anything, even if you kill him, anything just do - because he is the one who is pulling us backwards, he is the only one who is giving us a slow down, we must do something about him, we must get rid of this guy and get rid of this place.
After some few moments Tise came in and took me and I just plead to him not to grab him like this way - I tried my best to stand up, and he said to me I must not tell him shit, you must come. He dragged me and take me out of the door. When I was outside I just saw a red car standing there - they took a plastic into the car, at that moment I was tied, my hands were on my back. They took me and push me into the red car. One boer policeman came - they got into the car and they take off their guns.
Tise pointed the gun at me and the other one just put the gun in front of me and the car drove off. I asked them where are we going to, they didn’t answer me. I said to them if you are taking me somewhere else, or if you are going to kill me, can’t you just go and get my clothes or let me go and get my clothes, where I am going to die, I want to die with my clothes and they looked at each other quietly, they just drove off.
After a while I just asked the to turn back, telling them that I just need my clothes, they couldn’t care less. After a moment they turned back again, they went back to the direction of the cells, and they parked at the backyard. They stopped there - I wanted to get out, they took their guns and point it at me. One policeman known as Tise, I just ask him to go and fetch my clothes and the other one stood on top of me with this gun pointing at me. I asked him what do you want to do to me, because it seems as if I have killed someone now and yet I didn’t kill anyone, or else I am a rival. They didn’t answer me, after a while Tise come back with my clothes, they took me then.
When we about to approach the airport, Tise said to me we want to lock you here in Mossel Bay, but you don’t want to say the truth and now we are going to kill you. I said to them it’s okay, Steve Biko died a long time ago, he was also killed, it won’t be a trouble if I also die - because I will die for reality.
They took me out of the car when we were in the airport, they just make me stand opposite a car, they pointed the guns at me and said we are going to shoot you now, just tell the truth. I said there is no truth I can say, this is the only truth I am talking, I am telling you - I know nothing and this is the truth I know. The one you know is yours I know nothing, don’t - don’t oppose what I am saying.
They took me again, grab me - pull - push me into the car and they drove off. When were far away, passed Mossel Bay they said to me you see now, we are going to take you to Mossel Bay but now we are going to kill you. I said to them it’s okay you can go and kill me, I am ready to die - and they took me - drove a very long distance passed forest, there was another big forest - when we were just nearer to that forest they stopped the car. We were just about to enter the forest - one policeman said just take this person out and kill him. They stopped the car and they - they make me stand next to the car - they take their guns out - they locked them and they said we are going to kill you now.
I said it’s okay, and they asked me again to sit - tell the truth, I said there is nothing I know, this is the only truth I know, the thing I told you is the only truth and they said there are many things that happened to George, and everybody in George is pointing your name. I said to them I for one, I know nothing, this is the only truth ... end of Tape 1, side B ... pushed me into the car, we drove off again.
We [indistinct] a place like a farm this place is known as Herbertsdal - they stopped the car near to a house. They get off, they said I must also get off - I get off, they got into this house when we were about to get in, when I was in there, I saw two policeman - when I found out, it was a charge office.
One policeman asked - I believe he was in charge - what is this person doing here. They said no we are coming here to lock him here and the other one of course said no you can’t lock him here because you are only keeping people who are going to sleep here for a night - and they opposed him saying that you can’t tell us that. They said to him you will just look after this person.
After a while they went out - I was left inside the house with Tise - they untie my arm - my hands - I was waiting in here and Tise said to me you’ve got a - you are full of shit. I said to Tise no Tise I am not like that - the only person to be full of shit it’s you and he said to me - I will beat you up like anything and he said no you can’t do that and he grabbed me with my chest.
I stood and God gave me strength with the left arm that it was not hanged, because the right one was not working. I also grabbed him, he pushed me - God gave me strength I gave more than his, I also pushed him into the corner - after a while he wanted to kick me and he said - and I told him you can’t do that, the two policeman came inside and asked what was happening and he said this is this dog he is starting to be nasty.
After a while they came in, and they said to me I must get out, I went out, on my way out - when I was outside, they took me and we just went around this charge office. When I was just behind it, I saw a place like a chicken - fowl - I saw a fowl run and they said this is where you are going to stay. I didn’t answer them. This place had an opening at the back and there was a nest on top and it was also - had an opening in front. Under the door there was also an opening - and they said to me this is where you are going to stay - up until you say the truth. They just pushed me in there.
They locked me in there and here inside there was a mat and a rug and a bucket - and a bucket full of water and they said you are going to stay here and you’ll see what you can do up until you say the truth. I stayed there, when it was about to be the evening it was starting to be dark, I heard a shout outside someone was shouting - come closer to the door - I do as he was saying, they were opening the door. When they opened the door - the - a gun pointed at me - I stood back.
After a while again I saw there was a dish with two slices of bread with half a cup of coffee - the voice said take - I didn’t see any hand or - and I took that plate and the cup and they closed the door again. I stayed there eating that meal, day and night - every time I was there, that was my meal - I just can’t remember how many days or months approximately three months. I was living there - I was living there out of God’s will and out of his power, because I was tying my trousers with the rags because they were falling down, I think I was a little bit slim.
There came a time while the State of Emergency was uplifted - it was after a while Petersen came there they told me that they were going to take me somewhere else, so I must give in the statement. I told them I can’t because there is nothing I can say, my statement is I don’t know. He gave me some documents to write in the statement, I just crashed off and then signed at the bottom and he took those documents back to him again.
After a while some policeman came in here - in there - they were there to fetch me - they said I must go and be locked in George. They take me there and we were in Mossel Bay police station, they stopped. After a while we drove off to George, while I was here in George, that was the place where they were going to lock me in. We stayed there for some time, what happened while I was on my way to the cell - they take me in, I saw all the comrades that I was in struggle with, they were in there, fortunately and unfortunately they couldn’t know me. I tried to identify myself to them, they said no man it’s not you Jeff - I told them it’s me.
And they asked me have you seen you - have you exactly seen you - I said to them no - I haven’t seen myself - I just remember myself while - while I was at my home - that is the only time I could identify myself, after that I have never seen a mirror - I have never seen myself in a mirror again. They brought me a mirror - I had to look myself on my mirror. When I looked at myself, I couldn’t believe it was me - because I was not the Jeff that I know.
I was not surprised when everybody said they couldn’t identify me and they don’t know me - as from then - they gave me charges, six of them - four were charges of assault - two were charges of peoples court. Now what was happening to my body at that time - it - my body was painful, even it is painful now.
After they released me I tried to go to the doctor for some examinations, fortunately and unfortunately Pillay said to them if you are going to open an case, I won’t be able to help you, you must not open a case and lay a charge, because I will be delayed in my work if - because I have to also look at this charge you are going to lay. He examined me - he said he can do nothing to me, although I was sick and he noticed that I was sick.
As from then I was just going to my appointments time and again, I stayed for a while under those pains, my body acing. During 1989 and 1990 I am not sure exactly which year was it, policeman came back again where I was staying. They came at night - when they were there, there was only one policeman who came inside, I was busy washing up myself, because I was on my way to Cape Town, we were having a meeting there, UDF meeting.
This policeman kicked my door and let himself inside - while the policeman was inside he just stood and stared at me, he asked what I was doing. I told him that he can’t - he just can’t me ask that question, I stand up, I grabbed him, I throw him out of the door and closed my door. If I told - I told him that if you don’t have respect, you must stay outside - I stayed there. After a while I heard the sound of cars parking outside - I just heard people surrounding the place where I was - after a while I heard a knock on the door. I asked who was it, they said just open the door we are the policeman. I opened the door, they asked why are you hitting one of us, I said to them if one doesn’t have respect, you must show him respect. You just can’t enter in any man’s house and kick his door, where do you get that permission to do that.
While I was saying that, they jumped to me, they beat me up - fortunately and unfortunately God gave me strength again. I grabbed one of them, I pulled him up and throw him on top of the others while I was trying to fight - seeing that I am defeating those who were inside, they crowd and called the one’s who were outside, they all came in, they pulled me outside the house.
When I was outside, I don’t know whether it was dark or white with policeman but the place was full of policeman - some had long - had long [indistinct] so I don’t know whether they went and fetched the Army - the whole Army I had no idea. They beat me up again while I was outside, I tried my best to fight because my procedure was not like that just a man come and beat me, I tried to fight, unfortunately while I was fighting one of the ladies who was also a comrade, they were also policemen while she was still on the streets, they were trying to protect him not to come they tried to chase away other people with guns - when this people were approaching they chased them away.
And then this lady comes, he - she asked what was going on, and the policeman tried to block her and my neighbour came - she was also a mother and she couldn’t give them a chance and just went inside and she told them not to beat me up and he said to me Jeff don’t fight against this people, because there are many of them - they may kill you. I asked to them what are they looking for, and they said no there is someone we were chasing and he just went inside your house, so we are looking for him.
And this mother said okay just come with me and look for this person, they went inside - while they were inside they just looked around looking at the placards and the posters that were hanging on the wall. Mandela’s poster was also there, they just looked around, on their way out, this woman said these people came here just for nothing, they just came here to beat you up because they didn’t check the house looking for someone and they said to this woman now we are going to take this guy - fortunately and unfortunately this women couldn’t allow it that thing to happen. Although the policeman were more than the women, they wanted to take me.
What happened while they were on their way, I saw Mawusa whom was working with them - he was also a policeman and one Coloured policeman called Fletcher. I just met them - I just - I didn’t say anything, I just look at them, I went an lay a charge - there was nothing - nothing had happened it just vanished - I will stop there.
DR RAMASHALA
Thank you Mr Yalolo - I think to give you a break and we also have a lot of questions to ask you, so what we will do is take a tea break and then we will come back after tea and proceed with the questions, so is it okay to give you a break - okay.
We will break for twenty minutes for a tea break and then we will come back and finish with Mr Yalolo - thank you - please remember to leave your earphones.
MEETING ADJOURNS FOR TEA ON RESUMPTION
MS BURTON
We are to begin with the second half of the morning’s program - just in case there are people who have just arrived, we welcome you all once again and explain that there are headsets for translation available in the hall. Unfortunately there are not quite enough for everybody, so you may be able to find that you can share with somebody if you can understand one language where the other person understands another. We apologise for the fact that there is a shortage of the headsets - it’s because we have hearings also in Umtata today and the other number of headsets has had to go there.
We are continuing now with the testimony of Mr Geoffrey Yalolo - he spoke to us before we broke for an interlude and the panel are now going to ask him questions. Dr Ramashala is facilitating his evidence and we’ll start.
DR RAMASHALA
Mr Yalolo there seems to be - to have been some confusion about you and your brother’s identity specifically to - with relation to Cekibonga. What role do you think Cekibonga - is it Cekibonga - the comrade who came in is his name Cekibonga?
MR YALOLO
Yes - [indistinct] police station.
DR RAMASHALA
Okay, police station, it seems that the person who was identifying you incorrectly was Chekibonga and it seems like there was some confusion about who was named Geoffrey and who was named Joseph - could you explain that a little bit - or give us your thinking about what you think was happening.
MR YALOLO
Before Chekibonga came in, they only thing happened they asked us our names - and then what happened after that is this. They gave in our names - I told them that I am Geoffrey, my uncle told him that he is Joseph. While we were on our way out, Petersen came out with Chekibonga - he asked from Chekibonga can you identify these people and now what happened Chekibonga said yes.
After admitting so he asked whether does he know my uncle’s name and he said no. The policeman looked at him with no silence and he asked him my name and he said this is Joseph pointing at me, when they asked him again for the second time, he said no this is Jeffrey.
DR RAMASHALA
In your statement you said the first day they put a plastic over my head for eight hours, and used electric shocks on my body and my head. Could you explain that - exactly what they were doing with the electric shocks.
MR YALOLO
What happened there firstly this policeman they took me into this office, they tied me up there, they took this plastic bag and put it on my head and they put another things that I couldn’t identify but there was something on top of the plastic that covered my head, so it was very dark, I couldn’t see anything. I couldn’t even breath - it was very hard for me to breath.
They took me from where I was - I don’t know whether they take me out of this office, but there was an action. Each and everyone from this offices - it was as if they told each other that I am in there, each and everyone came and kicked - came kick - beat - they do that, it was happening for the whole day, asking each other is this the one, they said yes and they kick.
And then after they took off this plastic they put the electric wire on my hair and they worked me with that through it.
DR RAMASHALA
What do you mean they worked me through - I want you to be specific if you can.
MR YALOLO
With this wires, they put the wires on my head - they shocked me with them - there was something that they put on my hairs, something that was - if it was twisting my hair and then pulled my hair up.
DR RAMASHALA
Am I correct to say that you were a member of the UDF.
MR YALOLO
You are not making a mistake at all.
DR RAMASHALA
And I am asking that because it seems that they were being [indistinct] on getting information from you, thinking that you had something, what was your position in the UDF.
MR YALOLO
I had no position, I was just an ordinary member.
DR RAMASHALA
Chairperson I’ll yield to my colleagues and then I may come back again for some more questions.
DR ALLY
Geoffrey what kind of information is it that they wanted from you?
MR YALOLO
The information they wanted from me, I couldn’t even tell, it’s only them who knew what they were looking for, because they were the one who was beating me - they wanted the information about what was happening here in George.
DR ALLY
But anything specifically did they want you to admit to certain things that had happened?
MR YALOLO
They said to me the reason for the violence and struggle in George and the UDF to be in power, it was because of me.
DR ALLY
Did they ever give you any statement which they wanted you to sign or did they - or did they try to force you to make a statement.
MR YALOLO
They wanted me to give in a statement saying there is something that I know or what do I say about the thing that they are accusing me of.
DR ALLY
Did they want you to name names and inform them on specific people is that what was going on?
MR YALOLO
In the offices where they use to put me in, they pointed out some people - they wanted to know about those people, they wanted to know whether are they involved in the struggle.
DR ALLY
You say that you were eventually charged on six accounts, on assault, on people’s courts on other charges what - what happened? Were you ever found guilty on those charges or were you acquitted?
MR YALOLO
We tried to find lawyers from the UDF - those were the lawyers who helped us not be charged against anything.
DR ALLY
[indistinct] acquitted you say.
MR YALOLO
Yes.
DR ALLY
[indistinct] three policeman specifically Petersen, Steyn and Tise - were these people directly involved in - in actually torturing you or were they only present?
MR YALOLO
They were deeply involved because each and everyone who was assaulting me, they were in charge.
DR ALLY
They were there when electric shocks were applied to you.
MR YALOLO
They were also involved in there.
DR ALLY
Thank you.
UNKNOWN;
What was your views on the conflict of the time [indistinct] as a member of UDF?
MR YALOLO
Are you asking on what was happening to me, can you please clarify this question to me.
UNKNOWN;
On the situation that was happening to you and in your country, I would like to know your views.
MR YALOLO
What was happening in the country - everything that was happening in the country was a struggle for oppression - I was part of the people who were in struggle for the freedom of our country.
UNKNOWN;
What about the policemen views, how were they?
MR YALOLO
Policemen were seeing it that each and everyone who was in struggle for freedom if we don’t kill them, they must be locked in.
MS BURTON
The things that you have talked about, most of them happened while you were in detention is that right?
MR YALOLO
Yes.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] were charged and you were sent to the Rooihel prison.
MR YALOLO
Yes it’s like that.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] prison.
MR YALOLO
It is here in George.
MS BURTON
The torture that you have described to us, that happened before you were charged.
MR YALOLO
Yes it’s like that.
MS BURTON
Quite a long time that you were in detention and being taken out of the cell and tortured and then taken back to the cells.
MR YALOLO
I was detained.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] times a place on the third floor of a building in York Street, why did they take you to - to another building?
MR YALOLO
They are the only one who can know that, they had a reason to do that.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] other people were also taken for interrogation out of the police cells to a different building?
MR YALOLO
Yes I do have the knowledge of people who were taken out from the cells, but I don’t know where they were taken to.
MS BURTON
And the place that you mentioned that was far beyond Mossel Bay did you say that was called Herbetsdal?
MR YALOLO
It was a police place too, a police station of some kind.
MR YALOLO
Yes it is a police station - police place.
MS BURTON
Thank you very much - Dr Ramashala.
DR RAMASHALA
Mr Yalolo you made a statement that the police gave you a piece of paper for you to sign, was there something written on the piece of paper or was there - was it blank?
MR YALOLO
There was something written on the paper.
DR RAMASHALA
What was written on that piece of paper?
MR YALOLO
This was a paper - sort of a paper like for someone who is laying a charge and you had to fill in - in the blank spaces.
DR RAMASHALA
[indistinct] released on the day that you were suppose to go to court in 1986 - and then the police visited you, this was Petersen, visited you in [indistinct] Street, what happened in between, between 1986 and 1990?
MR YALOLO
I can’t get your question clear.
DR RAMASHALA
[indistinct] the police left you alone or if they continued to harass you during that period?
MR YALOLO
They use to watch me, but I couldn’t care what they were doing.
MS BURTON
Thank you Dr Ramashala, I would like to ask one last question and to just say to you that our investigative unit has tried to find out more about your experience, but as in many other cases the records of the cell register of the time that you were in detention is not available to them.
So one of the things we would like to know is if you remember the names of any of the other people who were in the cells with you, who could testify to the condition that you were in and to your experience.
MR YALOLO
Would you like me to tell this to you now or when?
MS BURTON
[indistinct] now you can give us the names afterwards if you remember.
MR YALOLO
I can remember some of the names.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] from you later and we would like to thank you very much, this has been a long and very taxing experience for you to tell all of these details to us now, we thank you very much indeed for coming and for telling us of your experience. You can step down from the platform now.
DR RAMASHALA
Madam Chairperson I’d like to ask one more question. Mr Yalolo I personally am surprised that you are still alive. And it is very clear that you have suffered and sustained a lot of injuries - is there anything specific either than telling you story so that it can be documented - is there anything that you would like the Commission to do.
I talked with you outside and you explained that you have a lot of pain in your body and I am just wondering if you would like to express some wishes to the Commission about what we can recommend to be done for you.
MR YALOLO
As I am here, I am very much in pain and as from those days that I was assaulted I was always in pain. There was no doctor who can help me up until today, even today there is no doctor who is able to help me. If I am visiting a doctor, they just said I have nothing wrong with me, although I do have pains. Just like my right arm, I went to the doctor and the doctor told that she can do nothing, because this arm has been damaged and it’s been a long time that it has been like that and there is nothing he can do.
But what I would like - just like the problem of my feet, I am always in pains, I don’t even have a minute or seconds, I am always in pains right through. My life is in pain, but I don’t have someone who can assist me, I don’t have someone who can help me, I’ll be very glad if there can be someone who will assist me or help me to get rid of this pain.
And the other thing I do have, I feel very much heartbroken because up until today those who assaulted me, they are still in power, they are still the office bearers, I feel very sorry for myself, because the struggle we have fought for these people who depressed us, they are still on the lead, they are still in power, that’s what I have told with the other members who are representing the Truth Commission.
I felt very sorry and pitiful when they said that we were under protection here because some of those people who assaulted us, is the ones that I have to go with to them. I feel very sorry that I have to go back to the one who assaulted me to take the case now and he is still the one who is in power in this offices. That is why there will be no peace on my side. I won’t feel comfortable if I have to go to them even today.
That is why my heart is so broken and I also need help, I need a lot of help, I’ve got a family that I need to look after. There is no-one who is going to work for my family. I have to work for my family and even so now while I am here, my - I can’t work for my family, I don’t have power and I don’t have strength to go and look for work, I must try hard to strive for a living. Even where I am working there are times where I had to lift up a heavy object, it just fell down. I just can’t do otherwise, I can’t help it, I am sick.
Those are the pains that I am under and I am in fear because those people are still in power, they are still the leaders of this country, they are still - they are still in the offices, they are still the office bearers even in the Police Force. Those were the perpetrators and they are still in lead.
What I would like to know if is there anything or assault that can come - from this people, what must I do, I don’t want to sent me to those people who assaulted me before.
DR RAMASHALA
When was the last time you consulted with a doctor?
MR YALOLO
I visited the doctor some weeks back, while I was going there, something funny happened. I felt some pain, my voice went off, when I consulted the doctor he just said I had nothing wrong and he tried his best to examine, but he couldn’t find anything. He made some tests, everything was just positive. So I don’t know what to do now, because there is no doctor who can help me, that’s what’s breaking my heart.
Even now it’s very difficult to be in peaceful with the one who assaulted you and yet you are still having pains from the assault he did to you. Unless you can get help that maybe can settle things down, but if there are still pains, it’s very difficult to be in peace with that person. You must be in peace with that ... end of Tape 2, side A ...
It was taken by my by the perpetrators, they are working for their families, what are they saying about my family which is suffering now, we are suffering a lot - no-one is able to help us, so that’s the way we are living. I am what I am today, I am a problem to my family.
DR RAMASHALA
Mr Yalolo, I know this has been very painful especially having to relive all those experiences. We are very grateful that you were able to describe what happened to you, to give us a full understanding so that we may have full documentation.
Sir I applaud your bravery, and thank you very much.
MS BURTON
Thank you Mr Yalolo we do recognise that it is very hard to be reconciled when people have not showed any repentance for the things that they have done. And we hope that maybe not quickly because these things don’t happen quickly, it will work in people’s hearts to come forward and to show signs of remorse and to apologise so that we can move forward and people can be reconciled with one another.
We are not asking you to hide your pain and your anger, it’s good that you are able to show it and to say those things. And we hope that by coming here this will be one step for you in moving towards a better future. We need to find a way in which the people can have confidence in the Security Forces and believe that they are there for the protection of everybody.
So we thank you for what you have to say and we hope that you will improve both in your body and in your mind as the Truth Commission and you yourself move forward to making the future a better place. Thank you, I think Dr Ally want’s to say something as well.
DR ALLY
This Committee the Human Rights Violations Committee doesn’t have any powers to - to prosecute, but what the Committee can do is if people are named as alleged perpetrators that the Committee can actually call them forward and ask them to give an account of - of their actions or to deny it - do you think that it would help if the people who you mentioned as alleged perpetrators came forward or were asked to come forward and asked to explain and give an account of their deeds and their actions - would that help you to come to some sort of peace with what is - what has happened to you?
MR YALOLO
I for one, I don’t have a problem for them to come forward. Even if they didn’t come the only problem I’ve got is about my health - I am forced and bound to do something if there is nothing to replace my health or something that can improve my health to be the person I was before I can be very happy.
DR RAMASHALA
Mr Yalolo would you please leave the name of your doctor so that we can help follow up on your health - thank you.
MR YALOLO
I don’t have a family doctor - I go to each and every doctor, if this one couldn’t help me - I go to the other one. They just couldn’t examine me, that’s why I don’t have a family doctor. There are no doctors here, the people who are just doing their doctor’s work are just ordinary people just like me.
MS BURTON
Thank you very much Mr Yalolo we won’t ask you anymore questions now, thank you.
