DR BORAINE
Ms Gishi can you hear me?
MS GISHI
Yes.
DR BORAINE
Oh! good, can you - can you hear the translation? Can you hear now? Let’s just - just take your time and make sure that - okay - hello good afternoon, nice to welcome you. We want you to be very relaxed we know you not well.
Ja Ms Gishi too - before you tell your story, I have to ask you to take the oath. So if you will please stand - so if you will please stand.
ELSIE GISHI Duly sworn states
DR BORAINE
Thank you very much indeed, I am sure he will. The story you have already told people in the Commission is a very-very sad one, involving yourself and your husband and you have suffered a very-very great deal and you are not well. So we going to ask you just a few questions, so that you can tell us and tell everybody here what happened. Are you really to start?
MS GISHI
Yes.
DR BORAINE
Then I am going to ask Pumla Gobodo to ask the questions, thank you.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Thank you Alex, mamma can take her earphones off now. Good afternoon mamma.
MS GISHI
Good afternoon - can I start talking now?
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Yes mamma it’s all right, you can start.
MS GISHI
I was coming home from work, it was during October/November of 1976. When I got into the township there was chaos there was children all over the streets. They were running away, it looks like they were running away from the police. This went on until November. That is now these riots. There are soldiers as well. When it was December we hoped that now things were now subside - this particular Saturday, we didn’t sleep that night. We saw people who had white scarves, the policeman who didn’t stop this chaos, we didn’t sleep the previous night.
In the following morning, we saw the soldiers on the other side and now we saw this wit these people who were known that time as wit doek. And we saw people pouring petrol - these certain people were trying to cross, together with these soldiers. Now when I say these people I am referring to the wit doeke.
We tried to call Bellville and Vlakkie, no policeman came, our township was surrounded. After we had our meal, these people who were still surrounding our place. My daughter’s husband arrived, he was from another place. And he came to register this cases. And he asked for the ID’s and marriage certificates. People from the rural areas were singing and there were policeman in - these policeman were from hippos.
Like I said we didn’t sleep the previous night at all. In the afternoon around two or three or four, I tried to go and look for my children.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Mamma was it on Sunday now?
MS GISHI
Yes it was.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
And it was on the 26th of December?
MS GISHI
Yes it was. [indistinct] was 13 years old, the previous day it was Christmas. While I was looking for these all the daughters and the son, the son was 15½. There are two elder daughters, and the last one is 11 years old.
When I got to the township, there were people all over the streets, people were [indistinct]. We saw these people with white scarves, and other people were blow whistles. People ran to the township to Zwelitsha, and soldiers from this hippos now chased after this people on foot.
My husband told me that no he - she - he will never leave. My house was a corner house and there was a new car next-door and when I came home, I saw there were many white men, they kicked my door, they kicked it and they went in. I am sure I nearly died that day. They missed, when they shot - they missed me on my forehead.
Fortunately when I was about to go to next-door, another soldier approached - the soldier was sitting on top of the car and she - and he was pointing at me. He started shooting at me while I was trying to open the door. Now these - these bullets looked like pellets and they were black. Then I went in next-door and I try to wonder how did my children - my children survive, two of my daughters came in.
During that time, Mr Ndamana couldn’t run away he was still too old, he threw a stone on the house, then he cried, oh! how can they kill Jackson like that. After they killed Jackson they threw him in - in the garden. These people with white scarves came into the house, … [indistinct] was trying to put me into the car - her house was also shot. These pellets were shot by one of these policeman.
Now these men came in and one of the woman knelt down to pray. Some of the houses were on fire. There were white men all over and they were shooting. We heard them that they were going into the toilet, my God help me and I closed the door. I heard bullets going into the toilet, somebody hit my door, one of the children said mamma let’s leave, let’s go out, my father is coming, is calling us.
Apparently that was the time that - that was the last time he spoke. The white scarf people axed him, houses were on fire, there was just fire all over. There were bullets flying all over, I don’t know what was going on there. Around 4:00 pm I thought we were all dead already, it was just dark and there was smoke. Apparently now they were leaving around four. We were tramping over dead bodies, there were lots of them. Some of this children were put on fire, when they put me in the van, this van was already full of people, I was taken to Tygerberg.
I told them no I don’t want to go to Tygerberg because my - then see my husband’s body here. My 15 year old son Bonisile, ran away with his sisters. When they arrived they found out that there father was already dead. They cried, some of the men who survived that day came to my house, now these men picked up my husband. He was - he was put on top of his own son, fortunately this vehicle wasn’t going to Tygerberg it was going to Conradie.
One of the injured one’s who had two bullets in him, this child who was also full of blood, kept on asking, daddy can you see me, can you see me - daddy can you see me. Now I heard when they got there at Conradie, now when they were in this passage, on their way to Conradie, he died.
When I got to Tygerberg I was told that I will be given an injection, I still have some pellets in my arms, some of them are still in my body, on my shoulders at the back. They told me that they cannot take the one’s from my chest. And these bullets felt like steel thorns, there was a policeman on the bed, the were policeman guarding each and every bed in the Tygerberg Hospital.
We slept there on Friday the 26th until Monday. Apparently people who were in this hospital from Nyanga died there. Some of my sisters-in-law arrived, then I was told that my husband Jackson has passed away. Then one of the sisters at the hospital injected me. My clothes were all stained and they dried to dry them, then on - on Wednesday I was discharged.
I went to 147 at Guguletu because the houses at Nyanga East were all burnt. Before my husband was buried, I was very sick, so I went to the Day Hospital, they X-rayed me, then they reported to me that they could still see the bullets in my chest. They could see one bullet on - in my arm. I couldn’t lift my left leg, I lived with my small children at 147, at my - at the husband’s brother.
My priest arrived, at that time I was at the hospital, I only have this 15 year old, they asked him is your - is your father out of the hospital already, he said no, so he got into the car, according to this man. They went to the Zuma Undertaker at NY18, the priest name was Matolengwe. It was the priest, myself and my daughter - we went to Conradie. The people who got injured in that 1976 will be buried on the 8th of January, all of them.
I stayed at 47, people were drinking here, but now I thought because I had already - I was a little educated than these people, I - I went to my husband’s place of work, tried to speak English there. My mother told me about the Magistrate. But I asked to speak to a Xhosa speaking person, so I asked him could you please help me, my husband is dead.
Now I was talking to this Xhosa speaking Magistrate, he said yes he will help me. Somebody from outside was called to talk to me under the instructions of the Magistrate. So they said we will take you to Umganga, three men arrived and yes indeed my husband was buried.
On the day of this mass funeral Reverend Russell said the bodies will be taken to the church, my elder brother’s told me no this is very dangerous. Reverend Russell arrived when the coffin was already gone. Something that I have forgotten is that I asked them before they came here I asked them to go and identify him from the mortuary. We left at seven, that was in 1977.
The undertaker took us to his mortuary at the vlak that’s where we lived. I saw him, I was with my elder daughter. When we got there, his eyes were hanging, we could see that from the body there were dots, black dots all over his body. And we could see now the big gash on his head, the gash caused by the axe.
I are still sick, I thought it would be better to have somebody who - who is more injured instead of a dead person. My left side now is paralysed. I was told now to take these pills until I die, they injected me on both sides of my face, I got this pills in 1986 at Tygerberg, my hands were full of wounds and my feet, they took photographs of me, my feet were rotten and hands were all rotten, I have holes, I can’t sleep well.
Sometimes when I try to sleep, it feels like something is evaporating from my head until I take these pills, then I get better. All this is caused by this bullets that I have in my body end of Tape 21, side A …
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
[indistinct] day on that Christmas day because your husband died the day after that. As you explained it to us mamma it looks like you were left - you were left very injured and you were to and extend of being an invalid.
MS GISHI
Before I use to work, my husband use to work as an attendant in the garage and we - with the little money that we use to get, we use to educate our children. But I never got to work again since my injuries.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Mamma after you were discharged from the hospital, where did you get place to - a place to sleep seeing that your house was burnt.
MS GISHI
After my husband was buried, my daughter took us. That is myself and my brothers, we went to sleep at Maw-Maw that’s where we stayed for seven months, that is in my daughter’s place. Reverend Russell and Reverend Matolengwe use to come and visit us.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Mamma I am going to ask you a last question, because you have already told us that you are tired, your son Bonisile who was in the car with your husband, could you just tell us briefly how that happened.
MS GISHI
My son Bonisile who was smeared with his father’s blood on him was never well again after that, he was psychologically disturbed, so I had - I suggested that he must be taken to the doctor but no - he said no. He got very scared, but luckily he is still around even though he is psychologically very affected.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
In 1977 did Bonisile go to school at all?
MS GISHI
When these riots started, my Bonisile had already passed Std 6, that’s how lucky I was because he was clever, he passed Std 6 in 1976 during those riots. He has a certificate to show for it.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
No I just wanted to clarify that because you showed me the certificate, I just wanted to clarify that yes Bonisile did pass Std 6 in 1976.
MS GISHI
Yes.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
He passed std 6 with symbol A, symbol B and C, I can’t see this clearly, but from this certificate it looks like he has 60, 70 and 80%. But it looks like before he saw this horrible sight of his father he was a good son. Thank you mamma I am going to let you go now.
MS GISHI
Oh! there is one more thing that I forgot to say to you, please forgive me, I loss my life, my husband died, everything that I had was burnt, even - even the last one - my last born was eleven that time, I am now very poor, I have no-one at all, I am still going to hospitals for treatment even today.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Thank you mamma, your experience is very painful. We understand this. That during your old age times, now you are - you are an invalid but we can’t even see it.
We can’t even see the cause of all this. Now how can a old woman like you, can be chased by police and be shot, we don’t understand why that happened to you. It is very difficult to believe something like this telling us that the police burnt houses.
Especially this people called wit doeke, we don’t understand why did all these to people, killing people, destroying people for no reason at all. We understand this is very painful mamma. We don’t understand why it started and how it ended.
Mamma I want to ask you something, you said something about a lawyer, did you - you said you don’t remember the name of the lawyer, you can only remember Reverend Dave Russell, and Reverend Matolengwe but you don’t know the names of the lawyers, I don’t know if - the man next to you can be able to tell us in that regard.
CHAIRPERSON
Tell him to please tell the woman because we can - he cannot say anything because he was not sworn in. So he cannot tell us what happened.
INTERPRETER
Sir can you please tell mamma next to you the names of the lawyers because you cannot tell us because you were not sworn in.
MS GISHI
It was Mopeni and Omar, these lawyers were Ruben, no Noben and Dullah Omar - even this man next to me had a problem that time.
MS GOBODO-MADIKIZELA
Thank you mamma very much, is there anyone else who has a question?
CHAIRPERSON
Sir and your mamma thank you very much, we will go back and think deeply about what you have just said, but we are grateful that you are here to tell the whole nation about your experience. This is not just your pain only it is shared by all of us. Mamma do you have any wish?
MS GISHI
No that is all, that is all.
CHAIRPERSON
Thank you very much.
