MS BURTON
Good afternoon Mr Siyoko.
MR SIYOKO
Good afternoon ma’am - yes I hear you.
MS BURTON
Please will you stand to take the oath.
ELLIOT SINDEZAMA SIYOKO duly sworn states
MS BURTON
Thank you - we thank you again for coming to give your testimony today and advocate Potgieter will facilitate your evidence.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Chairperson - good afternoon again Mr Siyoko and welcome here. You will tell us a different or give us a different perspective on the incident that we have heard about concerning the death of Mr Nkumbi. You were one of the persons arrested and tried and eventually convicted and sentenced and then released in connection with this incident.
Now perhaps before we talk about that in 1985 were you involved in politics - were you involved in the structures in Hanover.
MR SIYOKO
I was a member of a youth organisation in 1985.
ADV POTGIETER
And how old were you then?
MR SIYOKO
I think I was 18 years of age.
ADV POTGIETER
And were you still at school or had you left school already?
MR SIYOKO
I was not at school.
ADV POTGIETER
Now this incident we know happened on the Christmas eve on the 24th of December of 1985 and you were subsequently arrested in fact you were on New Years morning or no - no the 31st that was the last day of that year of 1985 you were arrested very early in the morning in connection with this incident.
MR SIYOKO
I will try to clarify things - in 1985 I had a friend of mine that I hung around with all the time. But unfortunately on the 24th of December I was in De Aar and this is the day Tozmane was killed - I got here on Christmas morning with my friend he is a resident of De Aar. We intended to spend Christmas this side.
We then heard that Albert was killed - after a while around the 3rd of January, in the morning boers came over to the house, they entered my home. I was naked, I only had my underwear on, they threw me into the van - I was thrown into the van like a dog - I endured this, when we got to the cells they asked me where Tozmane was, I told them that they know where he is. After that this men put me in a cell - I was naked - my clothes were brought later on by my parents when I was already there - after that.
These boers beat me up, after that they accused me of having killed Tozmane until I was sentenced in Grahamstown. The whole time I was detained - I was given bail but because I had to go to Cape Town to get my money as I was working in Cape Town - I went to Cape Town to get my money. This meant that I did not go according to the rules of the bail setting.
I stayed in jail in 1991 - 31st of May - it was a public day, that is all I have to say.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] you were arrested early in the new year - early in 1986 and then you were released on bail but was one of the bail conditions that you couldn’t leave Hanover - or did you have to report.
MR SIYOKO
I made a request with the Magistrate when he gave us bail - that very day I told him that I work in Cape Town. I had to sort out my life - I had to get certain documentation - I made a request but unfortunately because I did not have money I did not come back on the due date then I had to go back to jail.
The date kept on being postponed for the court case but I was in jail.
ADV POTGIETER
So - so just to clarify it - you were given bail and was one of the conditions of the bail that you can’t leave Hanover you got to stay here in this place.
MR SIYOKO
No those were not the conditions. The condition I was given was that on that day when I was meant to have come back I should have been here, but I could not, I had my own reasons.
ADV POTGIETER
I see - so you - you missed the postponed date that you had to be back at court - you missed that date and then they took away your bail and they re-arrested you.
MR SIYOKO
Yes sir - yes sir those were the conditions.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] how many days did you miss this postponed date of the trial.
MR SIYOKO
By one day sir - you explained to the Magistrate that you had to go to Cape Town and you had to fix your affairs up and you - you couldn’t possibly - you couldn’t make it to be back in time, but he didn’t except that.
MR SIYOKO
I made a report even my lawyer tried to explain to the Magistrate - the UDF provided a lawyer for me and they tried to negotiate with the Magistrate but he refused.
ADV POTGIETER
Did you come back to court voluntary or did they first arrest you and then bring you into court?
MR SIYOKO
Let me tell you exactly what happened - the day I was meant to be at court, I tried by all means to tell the police that I was going to be late - they then [indistinct] with the Magistrate - told the Magistrate that I was going to be late. But the Magistrate said the conditions are such that you should have been here the previous day, we are going to re-arrest you, those were the conditions.
ADV POTGIETER
Well thank you very much - and then - and then you spent - your bail was then taken away and you spent all the time in custody until the trial - until you got sentenced.
MR SIYOKO
Yes sir. They took me from Hanover on to a place called Dodrecht from there to Grahamstown, I was sentenced on the 11th of January 1988 I was sentenced to 18 years for having killed this man - I did not kill this man because the police killed him.
They were suppose to have protected him but they ran away because they wanted him to be killed so that this conflict with the community - it is the Government - it is Hutton I will never forget his name in my life - but I will forgive him. The time I have spent in jail if I have taken even a small stone and thrown at Tozmane I would then have peace in my heart, because then I would have been guilty -that is my problem.
I have a father that I was working for, he is a pensioner - when I was in jail he would take from his pension money and try to help me and go and see me because the people that the authorities were wicked. I stay in jail until I was released - I thank Mr Mandela - it is because of him that I was released.
I thank the people who were in the struggle because today I am released because of that. That is my case.
ADV POTGIETER
So what you are suggesting is that the police are actually responsible in a way for what happened because they knew that this Mr Nkumbi’s life was at risk and they accompanied him into the township and then they ran away they left him there behind.
MR SIYOKO
It is the police who killed Mr Nkumbi. They knew that the community could not accept him, knowing that - they still took him back to the community and left him there, even though they were cognisant of the fact that the community could not accept him.
Even at court we tried to explain in every sense but - but the Court could not accept that because they had their own intentions - they were on their own mission.
ADV POTGIETER
What was the problem around Mr Nkumbi?
MR SIYOKO
I will try to explain - we were all here - we would come back from work - what was happening here is that it was difficult to even go to town, we would be attacked. We tried to lay charges but comrades were not allowed to lay charges. The police would say only the informers that could lay charges. The comrades could not lay charges - I would try to run away as the police and the informers would chase me - I could not go to town - I had to stay in the township.
What was happening then at the time - if you are honest and you were there you would not be able to tolerate such. It was an ambivalent situation - what we were trying to do is to make the councillors step down because they made their own conclusions without consulting the community. If you are a community leader you must listen to the community - you must listen to their views - you then make decisions according to that - or if not - you negotiate with the people - you make discussions. But everybody must know that the situation in Hanover was due to the police.
In 1985 when we started in the struggle we called the police, I was not working in Cape Town at the time - I was working here in Hanover. We got up early in the morning - it was the first time we were involved in the struggle - we asked all the parents not to go to work - so that we could sort out our lives in Hanover.
Because there was no stable amount of rent - they looked at how much you earned and then took a percentage of that. We would both - if there are two families in two roomed houses, one earned R500-00 and the other R1,000-00 the rent would differ. They would take 10% of your salary and that would be the rent. We could not accept such, that is why we tried to rise up as residents of Hanover.
We even tried and invited the Councillors to come to the meetings they refused but we made them step down because we could not be led by people who did not consider us at all.
When the councillors would come to tell us that the rent has gone up, and if you questioned why the rent was raised, they would say that it is the white people that has decided therefore there is nothing that can be done. It is such instances that caused chaos in Hanover.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you so you are saying that there was then this conflict between the comrades on the one hand and those people that were anticipating on the system on the other hand and the police were in a way on the side of the people who participated in the system like the councillors and all those people.
Now Mr Nkumbi we heard from testimony that he was actually working elsewhere - he wasn’t working in Hanover - he was working somewhere else - where did he fit into this picture - why was it that it was clear that if he was taken into the township his life was at great risk?
MR SIYOKO
I did not understand your question well - could you ask me again please sir.
ADV POTGIETER
I have said first of all that I understand the picture that you have painted the background to the conflict we understand that and Ms Seroke has read some of the information as well which makes it clear what the sort of background was.
What I was trying to ascertain is the deceased Mr Nkumbi - how did he fit into this picture why was it that he was - his life would have been at risk if he was taken into the township and left there - I would like to understand what the problem was with him - what did the people have against him - what did he do that was wrong?
MR SIYOKO
According to my knowledge what happened is - Mr Nkumbi’s life was not at risk as such - but because his uncle stayed in the tents - because his uncle was not within the community he then realised that he was not safe with us.
According to my understanding it is his family that influenced him - he took the burden of his family onto his shoulders, he would assault people. He hit a certain comrade with a brick stone on the face, when charges were laid the police refused to take the case. They would not take the report because they said it is only the informers cases that would be considered and not the comrades.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] that - just to come back or just in conclusion to your situation you were tortured you were assaulted and they wanted you to admit that you were involved in this murder and you were not here you were - you were not in Hanover when it happened did they eventually assaulted you into making a statement confessing to this murder or what happened?
MR SIYOKO
First of all the police beat me - I told them the same report that I am giving now, I gave to the police - I gave in court as well - they beat me up. I was naked - after that they accused me of murder - I never admitted to murder - I never admitted to murder because I was not there - it’s as simple as that.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] you at the trial on - that they used to convict you on - to find you guilty on, what evidence was there against you.
MR SIYOKO
Yes there was such evidence - I can give you somebody’s name as Mr Nkumbi was here as he was sitting here he is the first one who said in court that I killed his brother. I was found guilty because of the Mr Nkumbi that was sitting here.
If somebody had to be accused the police would give a statement to the witnesses and that is the evidence that they would give - evidence given to them by the police. Mr Nkumbi together as a family they were there - they gave evidence that I had killed Mr Nkumbi. All they wanted was to make a claim so that they could later get money from the police - they were even paid for having giving false evidence. They gave evidence, we were found guilty.
I tried to get an alibi because as I said there is a friend of mine that was always with me - I was with this man at De Aar on the day Mr Nkumbi died. He went and gave evidence - he told the court that we were in De Aar at the time - we arrived the day after the murder. But even after that evidence Mr Nkumbi gave evidence that I killed his brother.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] on the evidence of members of the families of the deceased.
MR SIYOKO
Yes it is because of the their evidence - they said we had murdered the brother. If there are five witnesses giving evidence against one single person they are going to outweighed you. Even if I had - as I had an alibi they outweighed me because there were five of them.
ADV POTGIETER
Now - thank you very much the picture is much clearer. What - what effect has this still got today - has this still got an effect in this community - this particular incident from your prospective?
MR SIYOKO
I do not have a problem I know that my hands are clean they are not stained with Mr Nkumbi’s blood - I am happy within the community - I tried to demonstrate towards Mr Nkumbi - he gave false evidence so that he could make a claim for money to regain.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] your perspective you have overcome that - you have overcome this - you don’t feel any hard feelings at this stage - you’ve reconciled yourself with this incident.
MR SIYOKO
It is the man that sentenced me to 18 years that I am begrudging - he was told that I was not there I had an alibi but he did not listen to me - he would not listen to me. I know the reason behind all this - I personally have no problem with these people my heart is clean it is pure. I know exactly what happened.
ADV POTGIETER
[indistinct] correctly you putting blame on the judicial system as well you say that a person who actually in spite of what you said, still convicted you and sent you to prison - that is the one that you blame, otherwise you have reconciled yourself with this incident.
MR SIYOKO
I have no problem with the Nkumbi family.
MS BURTON
Mr Siyoko thank you for coming to talk to us we can understand the feeling that you have that even though this is passed you would like the true facts to be known and that you still have a sense of injustice at having been convicted for something you say you didn’t do.
It may not be possible for us to go back into that court record and to re-examine - sometimes it is possible - we will have to see. But many years have passed since that time and maybe in a way this is the best opportunity for you to say what is on your heart and you’ve had that opportunity.
The important thing is for you and the other members of your community - to go forward and not backwards and we hope very much that this will be a step forward out of that - that past which can’t be undone as you say you were blessed that you did not have to serve the long prison sentence you would otherwise have been convicted.
So we thank you for coming and for helping us all to understand and to remember the terrible things that we all did to one another in that time. And we hope that you will be one of the leaders who can take this community forward. It is possible for example some - there are church organisations and other organisations which offer opportunities for healing of the memories - workshops to take place. And it may be that you as the people of Hanover would like to explore that as a possibility and we will remain in touch with you all and do what we can to help to make sure that those wounds are healed and that reconciliation begins to happen. Thank you very much.
We are now going to take a break and we will ask you please to remain in your places while the witnesses leave the hall. They are going to go and have some lunch and we will be back here it’s now just after quarter past one, we will aim to resume again at quarter past two.
I would remind you again please to leave your headsets behind when you go out of the hall and we look forward to see you again at quarter past two, but please just stay where you are while the witnesses leave through this door I believe. Please would the witnesses leave the room first - thank you.
