CHAIRMAN: Whilst Mrs Montshiva is coming to the table can I welcome Ms Audrey Coleman, a member of the Gauteng Legislature, welcome Mrs Coleman. We also have a guest from Edinburgh, Mr Moosa Jogi, who is from the Commission of Racial Equality, welcome to you too, sir.
Mrs Montshiva, good morning.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN: Are you comfortable?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: I am ill.
CHAIRMAN: Are you going to be all right to talk today?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: I will try.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Mrs Motshiva, Mr Wynand Malan is going to help you in telling your story. Before I hand over to him, can you please stand to take the oath.
T M MONTSHIVA: (Duly sworn, states).
MR MALAN: Good morning, Mrs Montshiva. You will be speaking to us on the death of two of your sons. Two sons, both in 1990, Norman and Michael. It must be a terrible experience that you will be reliving. We appreciate you coming to us. We have heard a number of witnesses from Bekkersdal. If you could start off by telling us in 1990, more or less what the township was like, what was happening there, plus a little about what appears to be faction fighting or political wars, however you would want to
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describe it. Then if you could deal separately with the deaths of Norman and Michael and tell your story, as you know it. We will appreciate it. You may start.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: In 1990 the location was a troubled one. There was a conflict between the ANC and the Azapos. The others were calling others Varraras and I don't know what the other party called the other party. The main issue was about the school. The ANC members didn't want the children to attend school. That was the main issue.
One day, amongst all the trouble, it was in March, on a Friday, we were inside the house - my husband and myself. He sent our son to a boy called Patrick Msia to buy some cooldrink, that is his brother's son. He left Patrick Msia. After some time he came back running. He was shouting. I said to my husband there is a child shouting, it sounds like Pinda. When we went out, he went in. There was a group of people. It was a big group of people. My husband closed the gate and they demanded this boy. They had all sorts of weapons, stones and pangas. Pinda said they have already injured me. My husband demanded that they go away, but they refused. I looked to see who are these boys. Then I realised that their leader was Thabela Syoke with two of his brothers, Bunny and Modibe.
To my surprise there was also my brother's child amongst them. He was in that crowd as well. I demanded to know why was Sipho there, but they didn't respond and they just left.
It was hardly 20 minutes when two boys came. The other one is Mr Nkosi's son. When they came back they said we are busy with this one, we want to take him to the hospital, the one who was injured.
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MR MALAN: Take your time, have some water and only when you feel better you can continue. Please relax. Mrs Montshiva, it is going to be very, very difficult, we understand that we can never even for ourselves understand how difficult it is to relate to us your experience and the loss of your children. So really, we in our loss at being able to understand, are quite relaxed to wait for you. If you don't feel up to it, tell us so and take your time. If you at any stage feel that you would rather not continue at this stage and come back later, or really not continue at all, we have your full statement. We would appreciate your sharing your experiences with us, but we do not want to pressurise you. If you are ready to continue you may do so. But I want to repeat, at any stage if you don't feel up to it, just say so to us and we will excuse you and if you would feel up to it, recall you at a later stage. But you may continue, if you feel so.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: These boys came and said to me and my husband they have got Mbuselo already. We were shocked, we wanted to know where. They said in Silver City at cardboard houses. When we got there with my husband, we found the child with his head axed. He was axed all over his body as well. We took him to the hospital. When we got there, one doctor said this man is very strong, he should have been dead by now. They took him immediately to the intensive care unit where he stayed for nine days. Thereafter he passed away.
When we were supposed to bury him, we were not allowed, because they said that his body cannot enter the location. We had already made arrangements that he will be buried on the Saturday. Even at the mortuary he told us that his body
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is ready, but when he was supposed to be brought into the location, it was not allowed. He was only brought in on Monday. We made other arrangements again. We cooked again. This is when we finally buried Mbuselo.
Mbuselo, he was killed simply because of an ANC badge that he took from Sipho. He took this badge from Sipho, he wanted to know what is this nonsense that you have on. Because he knew that Sipho is his cousin, and he destroyed this badge. Sipho went to tell this to his friends, Thebelo and that's where the fight started, because Mbuselo did not belong to any political organisation. That's how Mbuselo's matter went on.
These people were arrested. We were told that we will be called. The policeman came to fetch us on that day, but we never appeared in court. We only saw the matter in the newspapers. No policeman came to notify us. That was the last time we heard and these boys left. We never heard of them again.
MR MALAN: Could I just ask you, Muselo, this Thebelo and Sipho and Thebelo's brothers, who you told us are responsible for the death of Norman, were they charged and were they found guilty or convicted? What happened in that court case?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: They were released, they were discharged, they were acquitted. Thebelo was never found. He ran away. They never found him. He was nowhere to be found. Even today I do have that article relating to this matter, that Thebelo has escaped. He stays in Pretoria.
MR MALAN: Will you please let us have that article so that we can trace the court records? You can give it to us after you have given evidence. You don't have to take it out now,
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but before you leave, please let us have a copy of it. If you can speak to one of our statement-takers, maybe to take those particulars. You may continue now.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Michael was an Azapo member. It happened that on one Saturday, on the 26th, Michael rode off with his bicycle. I told him that try and stay at home, because I am going to a funeral. I only found out that whilst I was away he decided to ride on his bicycle. I don't know whether he rode off to, but we picked up his body at the stadium.
Whilst I was sitting at home in the afternoon, a gentleman known as Mogadi came to tell me. He didn't tell me exactly what was happening. He just wanted to know that do I know whether that Dan has been injured. I told him no, I don't know. I didn't believe what he was saying. He was still reluctant to tell me when the phone rang. I said he must please answer the phone. He did answer the phone. I heard him saying that I am scared to tell her. Then I grabbed the phone and I demanded to know what is happening. Whoever was on the other line wanted to know did this person tell you that your child has been killed. That was the end of the conversation. Then I became unconscious thereafter.
MR MALAN: Thank you. If there is anything you wish to add, take again your time, get yourself together in your own good time and then tell us, if there is anything you wish to add.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: That's how Michael was killed. I never even found out who killed him. I just heard that it was just a couple of boys accompanied by elderly men, belonging to the ANC. My husband was not at home, and when he arrived he was told about this incident.
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At that time I was just running like a mad person. When I came back his body, he was there. My husband was there and he told me that the child has been found dead. We made arrangements to bury me. That was the day I will never forget in my life. That is the day that makes me hate the policemen, the day of my son's funeral's night vigil.
The painful thing is that when all these things are being done, and amongst the perpetrators are members of your family as well, you will never forget such things, if your relatives are involved.
During the night vigil whilst we were still proceeding, these boys came into the yard and we saw people running away. I was sitting on the mattress and I was told that these boys have arrived. I phoned five times to try and notify the policemen about this. But they kept on asking me how many are these people. Whilst I was still trying to phone the police, Robin Mgwana who was my relative was shot outside. The tent was burnt. It was in front of the house.
These people came when Robin was already lying on the ground. They came in Casspirs. I don't know what were they called.
MR MALAN: May I just ask you. The people that came in the Casspirs, was this after Robbie had been shot or were the people responsible for the shooting who came in Casspirs?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: They came after Robbie has been shot. They just came to take Robbie's dead body.
MR MALAN: Thank you. You did not in your statement to us tell us about Robbie. Did you say he was your newphew or your cousin?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: He is my cousin. I did mention that to the statement-takers.
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MR MALAN: Do you know whether someone else made a statement on Robbie, his mother or was he, Robbie, married?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: No, I never heard a thing. His wife told me that she will come forward but she never did.
MR MALAN: Is there anything else you want to tell us? Sorry, we are not getting a translation here from the witness. If you could just repeat the answers or the last two statements of the witness?
MS SEROKE: We missed the victim's first two sentences.
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: On a Saturday after the funeral, when we were going to the Anglican Church, we encountered some problems.
MR MALAN: On the Saturday. Will you tell us more about that?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: On that Saturday when Michael was taken to the church on the day of the funeral, that's when the fighting started at church. The church was burnt in the vestry. We were escorted by the police to go to the graveyard.
MR MALAN: Mrs Montshiva, would you mind if we ask you a few questions? The people responsible for the death of Michael, was nobody ever charged, nobody ever prosecuted?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: They did go to the court but they were acquitted, except for the one who escaped.
MR MALAN: So they were charged and acquitted, you say? They were found not guilty?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Yes, sir.
MR MALAN: So really what hear is that, if I could summarise, that two of your sons were killed. In both instances people were charged, groups of people and in both instances they were found not guilty?
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MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Yes, sir.
MR MALAN: Mrs Montshiva, we would hope to just get copies of the records of the court proceedings, maybe of an inquest, if any was held. Really, I mean, what you have been telling us is certainly one of the most difficult stories, I think, to tell and almost as difficult to listen to. We can only hope that you will somewhere find that strength that will carry you through the rest of your life. I am for one also as a father with two sons, pretty sure that I will never make my peace with the loss of two of my sons. We can only really - I can only pray for you and we will see what more information we can get. There may be further questions from my fellow Commissioners.
MS SEROKE: Mrs Florence, I don't have a question, but it is just that all these painful things you have told us. You told us about your brother's son Sipho and further more you say that this has upset you, because your relatives were also involved in this. I just wanted to know as to in this time, in 1996, after so many years, was there anyone who tried to reconcile between you and these relatives that did this painful thing to you?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Nobody tried to reconcile us. Nobody tried to reconcile us. Even my brother passed away. We were not talking. He was just passing my house. My own brother. We were not talking. He passed away. We never even attended his funeral, because we were not sure as to what would happen to us should we attend his funeral.
MS SEROKE: Do you think if this matter can be resolved, will this help you heal in your spirit?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Yes, it would.
MS SEROKE: Was this church burnt down because you are a
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member of the congregation?
MRS T T MONTSHIVA: Yes, and it is because Michael's funeral was at that church.
MS SEROKE: Can you give us the name of the present priest at that church and their address, so that we can be able to try and rectify all this, and moreover, amongst yourselves and your family and your brother's family? If you can just give us the names and addresses. We know we cannot bring back your sons, but it will be a step forward in comforting you and therefore we thank you.
CHAIRMAN: Mrs Montshiva, I don't have any questions. I think Mr Malan has already expressed very eloquently how many of us feel at listening to your story. I know that you are not feeling well, and again, I thank you for coming. I hope that our counselling services, after you leave here, can provide as much support as possible, not only today but on an ongoing basis. Thank you very much.
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