CHAIRPERSON: We shall now call upon Mr Frans Mauda. Welcome Mr Mauda.
MR MAUDA: You are also welcomed.
CHAIRPERSON: Could you introduce the person next to you?
MR MAUDA: It is my sister.
CHAIRPERSON: Welcome sister.
MR MAUDA: We welcome that with pleasure.
CHAIRPERSON: I now hand over to Dr Randera.
DR RANDERA: Mr Mauda, good afternoon. Would you please stand to take the oath. If you will just repeat after me.
FRANS MAUDA: (Duly sworn in, states).
DR RANDERA: Thank you very much. Ms Joyce Seroke will now lead your case.
MS SEROKE: Mr Mauda you have come to tell us about the disappearance of your brother, George, in 1986. Could you just tell us briefly the events leading to that.
MR MAUDA: I will say that my elder brother was a man who was working in a furniture shop. He was one of the people who was working as the money collectors. That day, on Sunday, the manager came. When the manager came he asked me about my brother. I told him he is not yet back. Then my brother heard the rumours that the manager was looking for him. It is then that, I think, he took the Police that he found from Chakoma. Then when they found him they took him to Louis Trichardt. When they took him to Louis Trichardt what happened we do not know. He was beaten the whole night. I do not know why he was beaten because he was a money collector. He was beaten the whole night and electrically shocked so that he can tell the truth. Whether it is money or what, I do not know.
Then while I was at work, my sister came and said my brother going to the hospital. Then I sent her to go and visit there at the hospital. In coming back to the hospital she told me that my brother is dead. I was surprised. Is he dead? Yes. So it means the Police beat him the whole night and it was hard. He was not ill and he never consumed any medication. When going there to visit my brother at the hospital they said that the people with the mortuary keys are not present. Must I go without seeing my brother? They said, yes, come next week.
In going there the following I find my brother. Because he was in the mortuary he was hard and he was dead I asked them to make a post-mortem to can explain how he is injured. Then I said, it seems, I said something that my brother was supposed to be disappeared, for saying that the post-mortem must take place.
In going back to Elim to take him to the mortuary here in town, Louis Trichardt, in arriving there, I found that he was bandaged, the whole body, the face and the neck and they wrote the name. I was unable to identify him. I asked them to unveil the face. They refused. They said that is against the law. I was surprised. I said, how can I take a person, without seeing if it is the right person. They said, no, it is the right person. It is then that I just took that corpse and my sister and then we took it to Louis Trichardt.
Here at Louis Trichardt, it was during the evening and we were unable to remove the bandage to see if it is the right person. Then we left it like that in the mortuary. Then we decided that the funeral would be for the following week. In going back to the mortuary we wanted to take the corpse for burial. Then, arriving at home, we looked for the pair of scissors. We found out that that was the wrong person.
I took that corpse and returned it back to the Police. I told them that this is not the right person. I think if that person is dead and they give me a different body and then I take the corpse back to Police. The following day the Police came back to me and said take that corpse it is your brother. The following day they came and then they took that corpse and asked us to bury that corpse. I said, no, that is not the right body.
A whole week passed and then the Police came and asked me to bury that corpse. I said, no, that is not the right person. I do not like this. Then for a while, I do not know what happened. And now, I went to the chief's kraal to ask the chief that my brother has disappeared. Is it possible that a man can disappear here in this village without his burial? What must I do? I have lost many things. I bought cows for the people who will come and assist me for the funeral. Then the chief came to me on Sunday and then he said, so what must we do because my brother disappeared. The chief did not want the matter to go further. He never gave us advice on what to do from there. I was having no money to find for lawyers and my money was already lost. And then the chief told me that if a person is talking here in my country you can kill me.
It is then that we stopped to join that committee and then we ended there.
MS SEROKE: Mr Mauda, you say your brother was a debt collector?
MR MAUDA: Yes.
MS SEROKE: Did he have any enemies in the village, because of his job, of the type of job he was doing?
MR MAUDA: No, there were no enemies.
MS SEROKE: When the Police arrested him why did they say they were arresting him, what had he done?
MR MAUDA: I do not know where they met, but you know, I just did not know. It just happened like that.
MS SEROKE: Where they asked by his employer to arrest him?
MR MAUDA: What I can say is the manager knows very well. He is the one who can account.
MS SEROKE: Is the manager still in this area?
MR MAUDA: I do not even know the name of the manager. He might have been changed by now to any other area.
MS SEROKE: In your statement you say that at that time, the White people were indiscriminately attacking Blacks in Louis Trichardt do you think perhaps your brother was also a victim of those attacks?
MR MAUDA: Let us understand it clearly. You know that time, during those days, not now, during those days, if at all you were involved in stealing they will kill you, beat you to death.
MS SEROKE: Do you think that your brother may perhaps have been involved in stealing or some theft case?
MR MAUDA: Well I am not saying that my brother was a criminal, it is just that he was working there. I would not know whether he was collecting money or goods. I would not tell.
MS SEROKE: When your sister, Poppie, went to see him, did she actually identify him as your brother when she came back that I mean he was dead? Have you seen him, have you seen his corpse?
MR MAUDA: My sister really recognised him and identified him as a dead body. Now what happened about the bandage, I have never seen it. They just bandaged him, the whole body including the face and everywhere. I have never seen such a thing.
MS SEROKE: So after your sister had identified him there was a mix-up in the mortuary and you were given the wrong corpse aand you were never given the right corpse of your brother, how did the mortuary explain that?
MR MAUDA: The mortuary people, when we went there, it was around half past four and when we entered and produced the card, they gave us, the mortuary staff, they opened. As they were opening, well the Tsongas, they were saying please be quick, be quick, be quick, be quick. I wanted to ask them to unveil the face so that I shall see. They said, now what are you going to do with this? You need not see this. I told my sister that look, I cannot take the corpse without seeing the face. But it was written, the name was George Mauda, which was my brother's name. We took it as it was.
MS SEROKE: During this time was there any political upheaval in your area?
MR MAUDA: No, there were no political upheavals then.
MS SEROKE: And up to now, you do not know what happened to your brother?
MR MAUDA: Up to now I do not even have a clue as to where he disappeared.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. Dr Ally.
DR ALLY: Mr Mauda, the Act that established this Commission, obliges us that when we are looking at questions of dissapearance or torture or killing we have to establish whether there was a political context or not. So it is very important for us in this particular case to try and establish from you, and that is why we thought that we would hear this case, to see if there are any political reasons why your brother would have been picked up by the Police in the first place, why he would have been tortured and beaten and his disappearance, if there is any political reason for it. Because, if we can not establish that, then you have to take up your issue with the Police, for the Police to investigate your brother's death and the fact that the wrong body was given to you.
So I am going to ask you again if you can please try and think whether there were any political reasons for whatever happened to your brother. That you brother may have been involved in a political organisation or may have held certain political views or in his work place. Do you have any knowledge of that?
MR MAUDA: Well, about the views, political views, at his work place, I do not have any knowledge.
DR ALLY: So you cannot say with any certainty whether what happened to your brother was because of his, for political reasons?
MR MAUDA: Could you allow me to consult with my sister to shed some information about this?
DR ALLY: Sure. Yes, do that.
MS MAUDA: Well, there came a time, around 1986, when I was at home on this specific day. A person approached me and said, your brother had been arrested. Because I was so frightened, I guessed that maybe it could have been other things and then I left there. I went to town.
When I arrived at Louis Trichardt I was told that my brother was at the Ntomboni Police station. I went to Ntomboni. That is where I found him. He was called and I talked to him. I asked him why he was arrested. He said I am accused of having lost some money, although I had brought the money back to where it belonged. I asked him as to when he was arrested. He said, the day before yesterday. I asked him if he knew, if they knew about it at home and he said no.
I left, went home and cooked some food and brought. When I went back the following, when I asked to see George, I was told to wait. It was during lunch or dinner. When George was approaching me I realised that the man had suddenly changed. He was no longer the same person. I then asked him, he was not able to speak to me. I could not talk to him. He just left. As he was not talking to him, I said okay fine, please I thought I would be able to give you money. He just shook his head. I left and I was called by another policeman, I do not know his name, he said your brother was beaten the whole night. As he is here he was here without shoes, not even keys, he does not have anything with him. I was surprised. I asked as to where he was beaten. I was told he was beaten over the head. I had to leave there. I left my food there.
I went to the Police station. As I approached the Police station I asked from another policeman as to where George Mauda was. Another policeman pointed at another door. These people have just told me now. I would have brought some of the documentation. I was just informed this morning. They gestured to a door. I have just forgotten, but I think there is something written in the paper. So I went there. As I was knocking I realised there was nobody. I stood there at the door.
DR ALLY: I am sorry to interrupt you, but I think from what you have explained to me, it seems as if this a case that you know really does not fall within what we are supposed to be doing at the Commission. But what I will suggest is that there are certain organisations and groups, like the Centre for Legal Studies or the Legal Resources Centre, people who can actually assist in helping you, especially the fact that you were not given the proper body. I am going to ask at the end, during lunch, to get the details and we can, through our staff in the Commission give you the numbers of some of these organisations and people to contact.
But as I explained it is very important that within our work that we look very clearly at the political motives and political context for things which happened to people, and the reason that we decided to have this case staged because we were uncertain when we were going through the statement and we did not just want to, on the basis of the statement, make a decision. We thought we would hear from the family and try to establish whether there had been a political context or not. So I think that we will have to take this up in another way. But thanks, and I am sure that, I mean this is something very painful and difficult for the family.
MS MAUDA: Well I just wanted to add to what you were saying. That is what I established from that. This White man stood and asked me as to why I was there. I explained to him that I was just there for him. I said I am here for George. He asked me George who? I said George Mauda. He called so and so, please come in and listen to some miracles. This woman is asking me about some case.
CHAIRPERSON: Excuse me, Poppie. Maybe what we would suggest is that at the end of the, you know, just before lunch, we have heard your statement and your brother's and Dr Russel did explain that your case does not seem to have a political context. But we will ask our briefers to get more information and give you some addresses of other organisations you can consult in terms of this case.
Thank you very much for coming and we hope the information that we are going to give to you and the people we are going to refer to you, will help you in the end so that you can find out what actually happened to your brother. Thank you very much.
MR MAUDA: Thank you too.
CHAIRPERSON: We shall now break up for lunch. We will come back, excuse me, we will come back at two o'clock and please ....
DR ALLY: Two thirty.
CHAIRPERSON: Okay, excuse me please, we shall come back at half past two and would you please leave the ear phones on your seats. Thank you.
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