DR RANDERA: Sorry, can I ask Jeanet Ramakokovhu to come forward. Jeanet, good morning.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Good morning, Sir.
DR RANDERA: Can you introduce the person who is with you?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: She’s my sister.
DR RANDERA: I welcome her too. Jeanet, Miss Seroke is going to help you as you tell your story. Can you please stand to take the oath. Can you just repeat after me. I swear that the story I’m about to tell is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God.
JEANETTE RAMAKOKOVHU: (sworn states)
DR RANDERA: Thank you.
MISS SEROKE: Jeanet, you’re going to tell us about an incident that happened in 1992 when there was a consumer boycott in Messina. Could you tell us briefly what happened to you on that day?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: On that day, this is what happened. It was in the evening when we held a meeting in our hall. Suddenly we arranged to go to, it was told there are people who will go to town to buy, whosoever could buy cool, could really face, be faced with a lot of problems and then we’ll have representations. The following morning I woke up and bathed. I put on my uniform, ANC uniform and went to town. Arriving on town I sat there. As I was seated a train arrived from Jo’burg. There were people going to Zimbabwe. Some of them were off-loading, I mean alighting, some of them were going to the shops and I had to rush to those people to stop them. There was a factory which is now closed. When I stopped those people, I was trying to explain to them that we are engaged in a consumer boycott and people are not allowed to buy here in these shops because we are fighting against the boers, ‘cause we are fighting, we have some problems around and the Zimbabwean women were explaining to me that, well, we know well about the South African war and we are not involved because South African people were not also involved in our Zimbabwean fight in 1966. I then explained that by then I was till a very young person. I was getting born. We just want you to support us as our fellow Black people. Please don’t buy and those people went to the shops and bought and then I explained to them furthermore and we went towards the railway station. Arriving at the railway station, whatever they had bought, they had a lot of plates and I just broke them. When breaking them I also took all the soaps. Suddenly Zee Moiana arrived. When Zee Moiana arrived he, he said to me, what are you doing? And I told Zee Moiana , that as police you know very well that we are in a terrible situation. I explained it to these people that they shouldn’t buy or they must buy in Jo’burg and go to Zimbabwe because we are still engaged in a struggle here. He held me on my clothes and then he, he took me to the station, police station and we went there.
When we were at the office, they took me around to another private office. Whilst we were there, there was another White man Backs, who was watching over the window and he followed us. He clapped me on my face. After having done that he ordered me to sit down and told me that I was not really illiterate or educated in what I was doing. I just kept quite, I couldn’t respond. Zee then started taking some books and pulled them down and there was a docket. He told me that there was a docket that was going to be opened. I admitted to the statement taking and then he said to me, the people who are encouraging you to do this are not going to be in such trouble and very soon you are involved in these struggles and you are not even educated and I asked him if at all the struggle really necessarily need people who are educated or only the people who are Blacks, fellow Blacks? Then when those women were taken they were just put outside. I had to take statement. There was nothing that I had to say there. I said I will have to say something in court and he said, you are very stubborn and those women were called to the office. I was put in a very private office like these where the people are interpreting. There were some burglar doors there. They didn’t close the outside door. After that I was put there aside. I asked to go to the toilet. Having done so Backs told me that there was no toilet and he said, just do it there and I sat there. As I was seated there I could feel that I was really pressurized. I had to urinate and I just did it there. After that it was late afternoon towards three or four. I told them about my hunger. I asked for food and the people who were buying food, who had bought food from the cafe, they ate the food. After having eaten, they just gave me part of the food. I said, I cannot eat this dirt, I’m not a dog. I wouldn’t mind staying hungry for such a long time. I will just go and eat in the cell. Then I just pushed to the food away and then they asked me to fetch the food again. The statement was taken. That was around past six, past five to six. I went, I was taken by a van, four by four. Backs took the, I was handcuffed, I, I was cuffed on one of my legs and I went to the police station. They took me to the charge office and I was booked in, in a book and the cuffs were taken off. I went to the cells. I had to ask for people to relay a message home that whosoever will see Orbit or Abraham Lerule or Jackie Makombi to tell them that I’m in the police station. There was a message that Jeanet shall not be a worried because we will be coming to release her the following day. I couldn’t worry. I stayed there in a cell. Subsequently, my own people from home brought food. I ate the food and slept.
The following day, in the morning, I went to court. When I was in the court I was told that my involvement in such case was very major and there was a bail that had to be given up. Orbit went and fetched the money for the bail. I was released and there were taxis, so there were a lot of people inside. I boarded the taxi and went to the hall. On arriving at the hall people explain as to what happened on my arrest during the boycott times and now he’s back. There, but there was no problem at all. The others will have to be consulted and that court was postponed. The following day a lawyer, Ntai, arrived who asked me several questions and I explained to him and he was the one who was going to represent. It was postponed more than three times. I was discharged. Thank you.
MISS SEROKE: In your statement you said that you were still attending school at that time and you were ... (interrupted)
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: I didn’t say that.
MISS SEROKE: You said you were an ANC member and you put on your uniform.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, it is true.
MISS SEROKE: How old were you at that time?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: I was twenty six years of age.
MISS SEROKE: .You seemed to have a consumer boycott. Was it made by the ANC and did everybody in the township respond to that?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: It was very involving and then we were all affected by the way, how the boers were really handling us. Everybody in Messina was involved at the time.
MISS SEROKE: What other protests did, demonstrations did you have to put your about you, your, your pride in, in, in the township.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: During that time, the boers could take dirt from the location to throw them in Nancefield. All the boers will take the dirt and throw them in Nancefield and there was a lot of dirt and you know, a lot of flies and we were fighting against that so that, you know, it should be arranged somehow.
MISS SEROKE: Annikie, just before you also talked about a march against, against VAT and what other methods did you use? There was a consumer boycott and VAT and what other marches were organized?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, regarding the VAT, it was during the time when we were gathered in town and some of the boers would arrive with dogs. They couldn’t give us any time to discuss or to arrange or to do whatever we were there for and there was somebody who was, of a senior. He was said to have been coming from Pietersberg and there was no time. The, Patrick Makado was trying to explain on a loud hailer and the dogs were just on us and the rubber bullets were on us and we were running away. Whilst we were running I ran, I had to take cover in a shop in one White man’s shop, so called Bopa and as he was about to close, he chased me away and I went out. When I went out, I went to the other side of, of the hospital. As I arrived at our own hospital, there was a van which approached and some other three privates and another van. This other van had a lot of dogs and they started, you know, breaking all, you know, the cars stopped and everybody was demonstrating. The boers just grabbed me on, threw me under the van and I was thrown into the cell in the police station. I was put in a cell.
MISS SEROKE: Were there also protest marches against the Black local authorities?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well we, it was about the VAT issue.
MISS SEROKE: When you broke the things that the Zimbabwean women bought, did you ... (interrupted)
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I broke them because they bought them.
MISS SEROKE: Did you break all the stuff that they had bought or you just wanted to demonstrate that they shouldn’t have bought from the shops?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I did break a lot of plates and glasses and I was about to destroy the soaps and that was the time when the police fetched me.
MISS SEROKE: And so your, you were represented by Mr Ntai in the case that followed this?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: It was Ntai who represented me in this issue.
MISS SEROKE: Was Ntai the ANC lawyer or your own lawyer?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: He was the ANC lawyer.
MISS SEROKE: But according to your statement that case just did not go any further and you were discharged.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: I couldn’t follow the question.
MISS SEROKE: I say nothing came out as a result of the case. You were not fined or charged?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: What Mr Ntai told me was that he, I didn’t have to go back, getting involved in all these activities because I was seen to be wrong.
MISS SEROKE: Thank you.
DR RANDERA: Mr Manthata?
MR MANTHATA: Sorry, Jeanet. How long were you in detention?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, about the VAT, it was about three days and then regarding the destruction of the Zimbabweans goods it was just overnight and they released me the following day.
MR MANTHATA: When you were telling us how you confronted the Rhodesian, or the Zimbabwean people, you said, if they want to buy, they had rather go to Johannesburg rather than buy in Messina. Am I correct?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, it is true.
MR MANTHATA: And yet you were protesting against VAT. Was there any difference between the VAT in Johannesburg and the VAT in Messina.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, I can’t talk about the Johannesburg issued because I realized they had bought goods from Johannesburg. Maybe here in Messina they were just adding to what they had already bought in Jo’burg.
MR MANTHATA: About other things that people seem to have been protesting against is the dumping, if I heard you well and then the VAT. Did you have any specific complaint against the Black local authorities in Messina?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, regarding the Councillors, there were some differences regard, we even went to their homes to ask them to resign and subsequent to that, police were called and we were in Jimmy Chauke’s house and the police arrived and they came on their Casspir. They just started off shooting and as they were shooting we also retaliated. We threw some stones to them. We were throwing stones and whilst we were running away.
MR MANTHATA: Were you in any position of leadership in the organizations here, in Messina?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, I was in the ANC leadership.
MR MANTHATA: .Was it the Women’s League, The Youth or just main ANC?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, that was Women’s League.
MR MANTHATA: Did the Women’s League ever have any specific complaints that were related to the women or to their family life?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: No, not a specific thing.
MR MANTHATA: For the three days that you were in detention, what is it that the police did to you?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: What happened was that one tall police guy arrived. I don’t know his name but I know he’s still alive. When he looked at me he said, when I look at you my eyes really spill blood and I didn’t care about him. Well, I carried on. I sang my slogan because it was not really important. I was involved in what were the problems around. Of course I did understand that he wouldn’t have done anything at that time.
MR MANTHATA: Nothing caused you particular fright or you lost nothing with regards to what you ought to have been doing to the family at the time?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, what I lost, was the job and I, I was working in Le Pomperei Volaunch and then they chased me and said to me, I must go and seek job from Mandela. I’m just really getting troubles in getting a job.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you, Jeanet.
DR ALLY: Jeanet, in your statement you say that you were, you were charged with, with intimidation. It’s true that the case was eventually dropped but do you consider what you did to have been intimidation?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Could you repeat the question please?
DR ALLY: The charge against you was intimidation in that you forcefully took away this woman’s goods, you destroyed this, these goods. Now although the case was, was eventually dropped, I’m asking you whether you consider whether or not your actions could be described as intimidation. Do you see what you did as intimidation?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: I wouldn’t say I was really intimidating. I think I was determined in doing what I was doing, not really intimidating people.
DR ALLY: So even if this woman didn’t support the boycott, did you believe that because she didn’t support the boycott you therefore could actually take her goods and, and destroy her goods?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, it is true.
DR ALLY: And was this done done, was this, was this common. If people didn’t support the boycott was this a common thing to do when there was a consumer boycott?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, because whosoever didn’t understand what we were doing in our organizational behaviour, we had to torture such people because no, maybe at one stage he or her could really support us in one way or another.
DR ALLY: But can you also say that when you, when your lawyer Seth Ntai, when he spoke to you about this, he actually didn’t agree with what you did. That’s, that’s the impression I got from what you said, that he said that what you did was not necessarily the correct thing to do. Can you, can you just clarify. Did I, did I understand what you said when you were giving your testimony, correctly?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Well, what Seth Ntai said was that, I well, as I was seen to have been wrong I shouldn’t involve myself very well to be that prominent in the organizational structures especially when people are protesting. Well, I must monentrarily decline, I must just be a back-bencher or a supporter from behind and not that prominent. Well, I was not that frightened. I carried on the way I was because that is how I was determined. I just in front. I was very much in front.
DR ALLY: I understand what you’re saying that what you did was not necessarily supported by Seth Ntai although it doesn’t take away what happened to you in detention. I want you to please understand that. What happened to you in detention is obviously a, a separate matter and has, and it has to be dealt with but I was just trying to get to, to the background and understand the context in which these events took place but thank you very much.
DR RANDERA: Jeanet, just two more questions. Earlier on in, when you were talking you said, you talked about the boers. Now were these people, you referring to the police as the boers? Where you referring to a, a certain political party in, in Messina perhaps or was it the whole community that you’re referring to?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: By Boers, I’m referring to the White policemen.
DR RANDERA: And my second question is just, I think Tom touched on it earlier on. This question of you being unemployable because of your political records and activities. Does that still apply?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Even now I’m unable to work. I even take my problem to the Women’s League because I’m unable to pay even water because of the thing that I was doing in struggle. I’m unable to find a job because of all this and I was forced to join security and now I’m just doing nothing but for peanuts for the security.
DR RANDERA: So you are working at the moment?
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Yes, I’m working but I stopped working because I found that the money was peanuts. Two Hundred and Ninety and I decided to stop because that I’m, I wasn’t satisfied by the money.
DR RANDERA: Thank you, Jeanet. We don’t have any further questions. What you have described is a story that we’ve heard so many times as we’ve travelled through the length and breadth of the country. Your arrest, the detention, the treatment that you were given but I want to go back to something the Mayor said earlier when he was talking about how our, how our democracy has come about and I think part of that democracy is to respect people’s human rights regardless of which political side they may, they may be coming from and I hope that your experience that you had in those years is never repeated within the political history of our country now. So, thank you very much for coming and you will be hearing from us in due course. Thank you.
MS RAMAKOKOVHU: Dankie.
