CHAIRPERSON: You are Phindile? Can you hear me alright
MRS NQOBE: Yes I can hear you.
CHAIRPERSON: I can't hear you very well. Okay, let's try again, can you hear me alright?
MRS NQOBE: Yes I can hear you.
CHAIRPERSON: And who is with you today?
MRS NQOBE: Elsie.
CHAIRPERSON: Elsie, welcome. Do you want to put the earphones on as well? Then you can follow. Now you're going to tell us what happened to you in a moment, but first, having welcomed you very warmly and thanking you very much for coming here today, it's not easy, it's not an easy thing to do, but please be very relaxed, you have a right to tell your story. Yasmin Sooka is going to administer the oath and then after that Hlengiwe Mkhize is going to guide you as you tell your story. Thank you.
MS SOOKA: Phindile, can you hear me?
MRS NQOBE: Yes I can hear.
MS SOOKA: Can I ask you to stand please?
PHINDILE MAVIS NQOBE: (sworn states)
MS MHKIZE: We welcome you Phindile. As the Commissioner has already said, we ask you to speak loudly so that the Commissioners can listen to you attentively. And those who are at the back can listen to you. I request you to tell us your story and this story took place in 1986 while you were 15 years of age.
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MRS NQOBE: In 1986 on the 16th of June it was a Sunday. Comrades came into my home. I was at home together with the members of my family. They wanted our brother here and he was not available and they said they discussed something because there were a lot of girls outside. And then they said Phindile should walk out. Then I went underneath the bed and another boy came in and then he said, "They are not in here". And they found Phumzile and Phumzile said, "I can not go if Phindile is not accompanying me." Then I had to come out.
As we were walking and they were collecting other comrades, fetching them, we arrived at the 35's next to the butchery. On our arrival there some soldiers came and they were using hippos. Their lights were on and then we went to another house and then they passed there and went out trying to fetch every comrade from each house. At the park we had to come together there, up till six.
At round about 12 at night one boy said he can see people and behind you there are soldiers. And we were about to go and celebrate about June 16 and then from there we had to eat. I could not eat because really I was not feeling well, it was chilly that night, I did not wear enough warm clothes.
From there, on that mountain I slept. After that I woke up and then I said to them, "Let's go, we are going to Section Six". Before we could reach any further there were a Cabasa group and some soldiers and they started shooting at us. As I was shot at I did not feel anything whether I was injured. I only felt something cold because I was shot by pellets. After that they shot at me at the knee and the other side of the knee also. I could not walk and they only NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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had to lift me up and they allowed me to jump the fence. The other one was allowed to take me. I felt that I was injured but I could not see actually where I was wounded. Then I asked another boy to knock at one of the houses there in order to get assistance. As we entered the house I was bleeding heavily and my colleague who was also wounded was also bleeding. And then they undressed us. They were trying to make contact with our family members. It couldn't help. Then from there we saw another boy who was just outside who was also injured but they could not be assisted because there were a lot of soldiers and the Cabasas.
And this boy was beaten and he was screaming until death. And as we were feeling that pain after some time it was around about one or two o'clock. Another person came out to assist us with transport and then they took us with a combi, we were four, two boys, two girls. They took us as the soldiers were following us, we reached Temba. As we were waiting for admission there and the soldiers refused that we should be admitted at a hospital, the other soldiers said we had better be taken to the grave yard and be buried alive. And the other one said, "No they cannot go with the sister." Then he phoned the police station that they should come and fetch us, and as we arrived at the police station at Nelspruit, on our arrival they did not say anything to us. They just put us in a cell. As we were sitting there waiting, the following day we were called in. Two girls, it was myself and the other girl and the two boys, and they asked a lot of questions. We could not answer those questions and those boys were beaten and we were slapped at our faces. And they said we will only be released after fourteen days, yet we were injured and not given treatment. NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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After that we remained at the police station and the food was very irregular to us and although our parents did try to bring some food, it could not reach us. Now the other day they took us with the other colleague of mine and they said we should go and check some corpses at the mortuary and they opened there. Then they said to us we must identify those corpses and we said there was no one we could identify. They took us back in the cell.
After that, after fourteen days we were then released home. We then started to receive treatment.
MS MHKIZE: We thank you Phindile. We want to thank you for your story that you have just told us. Maybe to clarify some of the issues I will ask you a few questions. You said you were just sitting at home and some comrades arrived. Can you tell us, were you also comrades, how were you related to these comrades, were you perhaps also part of-?
MRS NQOBE: We used to call them comrades because we were just calling ourselves comrades but we were not under the ANC.
MS MHKIZE: But you said to us you went to a certain place where you met and you were commemorating June 16, that was 1986. While you were there you told us that you were not feeling well and you slept. Can you tell us, what were you doing, were you singing, were you dancing, what were you doing there, can you tell us in short so that we can know exactly what was happening.
MRS NQOBE: Yes we were not singing. We were just each one discussing to his colleague next to him and from there food was brought in, but myself, I did not enjoy the food, I did not take it because I did not feel well.
MS MHKIZE: You said the other one actually realised that NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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there were some police on the other side and it was a group of SADF and on the other side there were another group.
MRS NQOBE: Now when we were discussing there, there was a Cabasa group which was assisting the soldiers because I remember about the pellets which were shot at me.
MS MHKIZE: Since our arrival here yesterday, we heard about Cabasa, can you tell us more about this Cabasa, besides quoting names, if you can just give us clarity about this Cabasa organisation. How did they work?
MRS NQOBE: This Cabasa were actually working hand-in-hand with the soldiers. If there is something or there are riots, they are the people actually who were giving information that such and such a thing is happening at such and such a place.
MS MHKIZE: Were they people who were known in that local area or how did they normally dress, can you tell us, can you explain?
MRS NQOBE: Sometimes they were wearing police clothes or if they don't have clothes they would cover themselves with old soldiers clothes.
MS MHKIZE: In your area, as you have rightly said, there were two groups, the soldiers and the Cabasas. Were they many people or just two or three people?
MRS NQOBE: No it wasn't one person, it was about four or five people.
MS MHKIZE: To clarify the matter further, you said to us on your arrival at the hospital, one soldier said that you
should be buried alive. Can you tell us exactly, why did he say that?
MRS NQOBE: Actually at that time, those people who were shot, they did not agree that they should be admitted to the NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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hospital. They said we should be buried alive and the sisters actually in charge, did hear that.
MS MHKIZE: The other thing which I would like you to explain to us is what you have just mentioned to us is that the sister in charge, didn't she give you any assistance in the hospital in order to do whatever is in their rights, more especially to patients? Can you explain to us what happened, what you heard from the sister and from the soldiers, the discussion that took place there.
MRS NQOBE: The sisters could not assist us because it was announced that they should not assist us.
MS MHKIZE: The other thing which you said earlier in your statement, you said that you were actually tortured. Can you tell us, since we have started here we heard many people saying that they were tortured and it's not very clear to us. Can you explain to us the type of torturing you suffered?
MRS NQOBE: What they did to me while I was in jail, they were questioning us. If we didn't answer them we got beaten. With us girls, we were just slapped.
MS MHKIZE: If you say torturing, you are referring to being slapped. What other thing was done to you which you can regard as being torture?
MRS NQOBE: I used not to get food regularly. The only food which I got was coming from my parents.
MS MHKIZE: I thank you. I'll ask now the chairperson to continue.
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Sooka?
MS SOOKA: Phindile I'm just going to ask you a few questions. Have you suffered any lasting effects after the shooting?
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MRS NQOBE: Yes, up to now, my knee is not functioning properly. I cannot sit for a long time, I feel as if these ribs of mine are just bulging out.
MS SOOKA: Do you receive any treatment for that.
MRS NQOBE: Sometimes yes, but in most cases I was being attended by Dr Bobbit from Barbeton.
MS SOOKA: Did you finish school?
MRS NQOBE: Yes I finished school.
MS SOOKA: Are you employed?
MRS NQOBE: No I'm unemployed.
MS SOOKA: Who pays for medical treatment?
MRS NQOBE: My father.
MS SOOKA: Does he support you as well?
MRS NQOBE: Yes.
MS SOOKA: Are you able to identify he members of this gang Cabasa?
MRS NQOBE: No it's not easy for me, I cannot.
MS SOOKA: But you know them?
MRS NQOBE: Yes I heard of some of them.
MS SOOKA: What is it that you are asking the Commission to do for you?
MRS NQOBE: I want that I should be paid so that I can be in a position to pay whatever costs if I have to turn to the doctor because now if I feel some pain I cannot attend a doctor and, as I'm saying now, they wanted to remove the knee cap but they cannot do that because I don't have the
funds.
MS SOOKA: Did your father at any stage lay a charge against the police who shot you and did he ever instruct any lawyer to bring a claim on your behalf?
MRS NQOBE: No he didn't because he was saying that as I'm NELSPRUIT HEARING TRC/MPUMALANGA
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now afraid from jail there is nothing that can be done.
MS SOOKA: One more question, right at the beginning of your statement, you say that you did not want to go with the comrades and you were fact forced to accompany them. Was that a normal practice in the township that you were forced into joining in the process even if you didn't want to go?
MRS NQOBE: Yes they were doing that, they were forcing people and when they arrived at your home, they would call out, "Comrade, come out, let's go".
MS SOOKA: Thank you. Phindile, just before I refer you to the chairperson, can you explain to us when you were released, what actually did you come across? How were you affected in your life? Where do you see yourself now in the next few years to come?
MRS NQOBE: I don't understand clearly the question.
MS SOOKA: After your release from jail, what did you do thereafter?
MRS NQOBE: There is nothing that I did. I'm still very much hurt, the reason why was I jailed, because I was jailed without any reason.
MS SOOKA: Maybe if you think now, even if you discuss with your friends, what should be done, more especially amongst the community in order to cleanse your name? More especially those people who were affected and were jailed and were labelled as prisoners and they've done nothing?
MRS NQOBE: I'd say, those actually who did the wrong to us, should come to us and ask for forgiveness.
MS SOOKA: If you say now, you are now bad people or you are perceived to be bad people and you realise that people that were sort of victimised like yourselves, and today they are heros because through that, South Africa has now
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reached the stage where it is now, where everyone is free.
MRS NQOBE: I request that you repeat the question.
MS SOOKA: I'm trying to say this, even today, now that
we have this Commission, do you still regard yourself as a person who was actually wronged and you were victimised but you can come up boldly and say, you were a hero?
MRS NQOBE: I don't see myself as a very bad person.
CHAIRPERSON: We've asked you lots of questions. I just have one final question if you don't mind. You told us that you were injured, you were shot and you were taken to the hospital and instead of being treated you were followed by the police and they took you to the prison and you were there for fourteen days. Now you say in your statement that during those 14 days you received no medical treatment, that you stayed in your clothes which were blood stained because you were bleeding from the ribs and from the knee. I want you to think very hard. Did no doctor that worked in the prison, did nobody come to see you during those 14 days at all?
MRS NQOBE: No doctor. Not a single doctor. I happened to consult a doctor after my release from jail.
CHAIRPERSON: Did you ask for medical help while you were in jail at all or was that impossible?
MRS NQOBE: No I did not even ask because I was afraid.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. You were fifteen when this happened to you, is that right?
MRS NQOBE: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: So ten years have gone, and I wasn't sure when Ms Sooka asked you what you were doing. Did you say you were unemployed or are you ...(indistinct).
MRS NQOBE: Yes I'm unemployed.
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CHAIRPERSON: And if you could, if it was possible to work, what would you like to do?
MRS NQOBE: Myself, I wanted to be a nurse.
CHAIRPERSON: Is it still possible for you to apply to study to be a nurse or is it impossible now?
MRS NQOBE: No I think I can still make it.
CHAIRPERSON: Well I want to say to you that you are young, you are bright, you have survived and I urge you to take hold of your life, to find a target and aim for that, and if it's nursing, go for it. Don't let anything stop you. Make something of your life, don't be a victim for ever because it wasn't your fault. You were just a youngster, you were caught up in all the happenings at that time, there were some very evil things taking place in our country. We have now moved and we are very very hopeful that young people like yourself and your friends can make a new start and give new courage for a new South Africa. I hope you will be able to do that. Thank you very much indeed, it's not easy to come and speak in front of all these people, and we are very grateful to you. We hope you go well, thank you.
