CHAIRPERSON: ...But before I ask him to take over I would like Mr Hugh Lewin to help you in taking the oath if you will just stand please.
NOTHI E MTHETHWA: (sworn states)
MR MANTHATA: Mr Mthethwa, who are you with, who is sitting beside you?
MR MTHETHWA: It's my wife.
MR MANTHATA: You are welcome Mrs Mthethwa. Mr Mthethwa, what are you doing now, that is work-wise.
MR MTHETHWA: I'm a driver.
MR MANTHATA: You are a driver for a firm or an own driver, self employed driver?
MR MTHETHWA: I'm working for Lewis.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you. Can you please tell us what happened to you in 1983 when you were arrested?
MR MTHETHWA: In 1983 I was working for Piet Retief Engineering Company and from there I got involved with woman I'm sitting with here. I was from Jo'burg at that time and I visited Swaziland where I came across the ANC organisation and I felt I wanted to be a member of the ANC and I joined and became a card-carrying member. Upon joining there is an oath that you happen to take that whoever asks you any questions or wants to know about the ANC, you have no right to impart that knowledge or that information to that person. Our commander lost the papers and the police in Swaziland discovered the papers which secret documents they sent to the Republic of South Africa informing them that they have got a member of the ANC. That's when they started looking for me and when they got me they went to the Piet Retief Engineering Firm when I wasn't there, but when I came back I was told that the police were looking for me.
Quite some time elapsed when they came back looking for me and discovered that I was in Johannesburg. The third time they came back they got me. One of the police was Mr Nsibi, the other one was Pretorious. I've forgotten the other policeman's name but he's no longer in Piet Retief. They left me there, they didn't arrest me at the time but they came back at a later stage and I was in Johannesburg at that time. They came back for the umpteenth time and that's when they got me but they still didn't arrest me.
Then at a later stage there was another policeman who came back but I don't know what his name is, I was taken to the police station and when I got there I was questioned with regard to being a member of the ANC and I refused to impart any information about the ANC, and the police told me that they knew my father and they asked me about him. I denied knowing him and told them that my girl friend does not have a father and that I did not know him. They thought I was joking and that's when they started assaulting me so that I could go and point out where my father was. I couldn't point him out because I knew that if I did so he was going to be killed.
I stayed at the police station until late that afternoon when they released me. They fetched me once more and assaulted me even more, threatening me if I didn't want to speak the truth about my father-in-law and asked me why I didn't want to disclose his whereabouts. I told them that it's because I knew that they were going to kill him and I was further assaulted until I temporarily lost my hearing.
MR MANTHATA: Okay just relax.
MR MTHETHWA: Ultimately I realised that I had been so injured and needed medical attention. They continued assaulting me, telling me that I was going to speak the truth and I flatly refused to do so because I realised that there were lives at stake and I couldn't tell them the truth about myself and my family, and when I was at the hospital in Piet Retief, early in the morning of the following day following my admission, I think it was at a quarter past six in the morning, when the nurses were changing the shift, I was put into a car and I was taken -- I remember the name of the other policeman, it was Nsivi Nxina Pina as well as Pretorious, they came in the morning to fetch me from the hospital and the nurses held me. The nurses refused to allow the policemen to take me out of the hospital because I was sick and they took me back into the ward where I received further medical attention, and at the time I had temporarily lost my hearing. I still have a problem with my hearing, especially in winter when it's cold. I remained at the hospital until I was discharged at a later stage and I went back home.
When I was at home sleeping after I had been discharged, I was put under house arrest and whenever I wanted to go anywhere, especially Swaziland I had to go and report at the police station that I was leaving the police and the police would escort me to the border gate and they would count the days that I would be allowed to remain outside the borders. I continued feeling ill and told my wife that we should move from this place and we ran away and went to live in Johannesburg where I went to a certain doctor who gave me some medication as well as treatment.
On one particular day in the morning when I had just woken up after sleeping on my right side, my right ear was bleeding. When I tried to sleep on the other side or the other ear, I bled profusely through the ears. ( I also bled at the police station where I was assaulted). This doctor helped me for the two weeks that I stayed in Johannesburg receiving treatment and they...(intervention)..
(part of the Mnisi case appears on the tape)
....attention or treatment with regard to the injuries that I sustained during the assaults because the police used to assault me, telling me that I should point out as to where the other ANC members were or where the ANC was operating. I ultimately told them that they had better kill me because I wasn't prepared to tell them any information with regard to my organisation.
Then I was under some surveillance and until today I still fell that I'm under surveillance, but I never pointed my father-in-law out until the time that he died. I still feel very bad because I do not know why I was subjected to this. That's why I've come before this Commission to tell my story. It still feels very bad that I was assaulted and no reason was furnished as to why I was being assaulted.
MR MANTHATA: Okay Mr Mthethwa, we are going to ask you a few questions. Where you are not clear don't worry yourself to answer those questions. First I would like to know, when you were made to take an oath being a member of ANC, were you told about the policies of ANC?
MR MTHETHWA: Yes I was.
MR MANTHATA: What were these policies regarding perhaps killing, destroying peoples' property within the country or particularly in Piet Retief where you were?
MR MTHETHWA: What they told us was that during that time the ANC was fighting for the freedom of the people and they wanted there to be negotiations between the Black as well as the White people, but it seems the White people didn't want to understand the viewpoint of the Black people. That is why I refused to point out the ANC headquarters or where the ANC was operating, because had I done that, I may probably have died or maybe a number of my brothers could probably have died. That's why I refused to give them this much information.
MR MANTHATA: In short you say that the ANC policy was not to kill but rather to negotiate.
MR MTHETHWA: That is correct.
MR MANTHATA: If I hear you well or if this house hears you well, you are saying that in order to know about your father and/or your father-in-law, were your father or your father-in-law members of the ANC at that time?
MR MTHETHWA: Yes he was a member.
MR MANTHATA: How did you know this?
MR MTHETHWA: It's because we used to stay at his place and we would discuss politics at times and we would discuss political matters with regard to the ANC.
MR MANTHATA: And you went to Swaziland as an employee of the engineering company or you had gone to Swaziland expressly to meet the ANC and affiliate to it?
MR MTHETHWA: When I went to Swaziland I was introduced by my father-in-law to the ANC and I realised that he didn't want to stay in Swaziland but he was a member of the ANC. But there was a lot of apartheid in Piet Retief and they also wanted to know some of the goings-on that were taking place in Piet Retief even though they were in Swaziland. So I was helping him with some information and they would help me with part of the information that I needed from Swaziland.
MR MANTHATA: You were taken to this hospital whilst you were still under arrest or did you later go back to the hospital as a free person?
MR MTHETHWA: I went on my own person accord to the hospital, not during the time of my arrest.
MR MANTHATA: So do you have the hospital records?
MR MTHETHWA: It's quite a long time ago, I don't have anything at hand.
MR MANTHATA: What was the attitude of your firm towards your having been detained or arrested at some time. Were you threatened with expulsion also?
MR MTHETHWA: They were happy that I was involved in politics...(sorry the speaker is not clear)
MR MANTHATA: My question is, you were and employee of an engineering company, and in most cases where people have been detained, more especially for political reasons, on their release they have been expelled of fired from their employment. So I wanted to find out whether you were fired thereafter or you were still retained by the firm.
MR MTHETHWA: I went back to the same firm but the conditions were not conducive to working. The situation was not like before I was arrested.
MR MANTHATA: You talk of being under house arrest. Did you ever have a lawyer who explained to you that document that said you were under house arrest?
MR MTHETHWA: No I never had any legal assistance.
MR MANTHATA: But you were served with a paper that said you are under house arrest?
MR MTHETHWA: No they never gave me any documentation to that effect.
MR MANTHATA: In Johannesburg, do you still remember the doctor who treated you?
MR MTHETHWA: He was a German Doctor who was in Benoni.
MR MANTHATA: His name?
MR MTHETHWA: No I don't remember his name. I went back to his surgery trying to find him once more but it had closed down.
MR MANTHATA: Who had introduced you to the doctor?
MR MTHETHWA: My brothers-in-law in Johannesburg.
MR MANTHATA: Or not any organisation?
MR MTHETHWA: No.
MR MANTHATA: As you were being beaten and whatever, you say you had ear problems. Are you saying that they never took you to the hospital for treatment of that ear until you went to the hospital on your own when you were released.
MR MTHETHWA: That is correct.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you I hand over to the Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Manthata.
DR BORAINE: Mr Mthethwa, if I can just ask one question. You did mention waking up one morning when you were sleeping on your right ear and finding blood. Was there any other evidence or any other result of how you have been treated?
MR MTHETHWA: A doctor gave me an injection but he never gave me any documentation or he didn't even tell me as to what was wrong with me at that time.
DR BORAINE: But before you went to the doctor what was the effect of your having been beaten? What happened to your body?
MR MTHETHWA: As I've already explained, I encountered some problems especially in winter time I always have to dress warmly and especially in winter I lose my hearing, but in summer I don't have a problem.
DR BORAINE: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Mt Mthethwa, thank you very much for coming here today. I note that even now after almost 14 years since this incident took place how much difficulty you have talking about this and we appreciate what you have done today and by making your statement. I also think that it was very brave of you not to give the names of your father-in-law to the police at the time. Many people actually broke under the torture that they underwent and you stood your ground because your feeling, your perception at the time was that if you gave your father-in-law's name he may be killed. So that was a very brave thing to do. I hope that by coming here today it has helped you. We've heard you say that your hearing has been affected through the torture that you underwent and we've made a point of that, and hopefully we'll come back to you soon, thank you very much for coming.
