MR MALAN: May I call the next witness, it is Ntoampe Stephen Moganedi who will be speaking about his detention, assault and torture and Professor Piet Meiring will be assisting in the leading of evidence.
MR MOGANEDI: This is my mother, my parent.
MR MALAN: Mrs Moganedi we also welcome you for coming with your son and Professor Meiring will be assisting in the leading of evidence.
PROF MEIRING: Mr Moganedi, from my side also very welcome, it is good to have you and we are looking forward to listen to your testimony. We have heard a number of testimonies about the difficult times 10 years ago in Sekukuneland and you are also taking us back to the years 1986, 1988, when many things happened to you. I am going to ask you o testify about that but before we do that I would ask you to stand up a to deliver the oath.
MOGANEDI NTOAMPE STEPHEN: (sworn states)
PROF MEIRING: Will you tell us what happened to you in 1986 and the two years afterwards?
MR MOGANEDI: I will start by what happened to me in Mutatema when I was injured. We left Jane Furse going to Mutatema to a funeral. We also wanted to go and look for a combi which was stolen. When we arrived in Tafelkop where our comrades were killed we found the combi and it was driven by those people who stole it. After the funeral we got the combi and we wanted to go home. When we arrived at Rhatchevo, we gave other guys money for them to get cigarettes in a shop and while we were waiting for them, Mutatema policemen came, Mr Ngadema came to us and we were inside the brown combi. When we wanted to leave we just heard gunshots. Alex Ngwan was shot on his thigh and on his hand, I wanted to run away and I heard another gunshot and I went back into the combi. This policeman came and took us into the police van. They took us to Mutatema Police station.
Mutatema police told the other police that they found me in the shop and they thought we went into the shop to go and put a bomb there. We tried to explain that we went to the filling station to fuel up, so they continued to say that they had heard about Steve, the other Rasta guy, and they were looking for him.
When we were sitting in the charge office, de Kock and Geld came and one of them came to me and he started kicking us. I was wearing a hat and I didn't want to show my dreadlocks, so this guy called Gert came and took off my hat and they saw that I had dreadlocks. The started realising that the rasta guy they were looking for was me, so they took us outside and they said we should lie down, whereupon they started beating us with sjamboks. They beat us until they got tired. They put all of us in separate cells. I was severely tortured there by de Kock, Gert and other soldiers. They took off my trousers and started beating me and tied me with cloths and I tried to ask why they were beating and torturing me. And they told me that they heard that I was Bob Marley from America. I told them that I was a South African and that the main thing that they arrested me for was for politics. I told them that I didn't understand why they were torturing and assaulting me. They asked me if I knew Mandela and I said even if I do not know him personally I want him to be released so that we could be freed. I was then kicked and de Kock said I should lie down and he kicked at me.
They started kicking me on my thighs and they twisted my testicles and they hit me with a fist and they used their boots to assault me and I started crying and they demanded that I should tell them the truth. I asked them what truth they want, I am litter because you said you wanted litter, here am I. De Kock said you should know today that we've arrested Ncbabakeleng, he's at Skoornot and he is dyeing and because you are his fried we are going to kill you as well. I replied that if they kill me for the freedom of the nation it's not a problem, kill me then. My kidneys were then severely beaten and they left me for dead.
I request the Truth Commission, that I cannot produce children with the woman that I stay with. I've been married to her for twelve years and I don't have a child. Even today when I sleep with her, there is nothing I can do. No this really affects me and my testicles were twisted and then this really hurts me. I think this is the reason why I cannot produce children. I request the Truth Commission to investigate this with a very sharp eye because the woman that I'm staying with now wants to hear everything and she wants to understand what's really happening with me. Now I'm not living happily with my family because of the child that I cannot produce.
All these things happened at Mutatema. Let me pass the issue of Mutatema, I want to tell you about Wilson Mashego. He was a detective at that time, he assaulted me from 1984. e used to come to my home with the police and soldiers wearing camouflage. He assaulted me from 1985 until 1988. He picked me up and then he would continually harass me. They took me from my home, but before they got into my home they shot. I have the cartridges here. Before they picked me up they shot my home with their guns and they told me to take out the AK 47's that I have and I said to them that I've never seen an AK 47 since the day I was born. They then, Mashego de Kock and them, took me, blind folded me and then took me to Mpuduli where there was soldiers' camps and when I arrived there, it was Soroloss, they tied me behind a hippo, the hippo that they used to sprinkle water with, I was naked and as was blindfolded behind the hippo there were stones that were uncomfortable and sharp. They said, "Yes you think you are a bull in the Sekukuneland, you think that you can see far, far away. Know that today you are going to tell us the truth, you are going to tell us everything that you have been doing!" I said, "No ways, you'd better kill me!" They said, "No we aren't going to kill you, we're going to assault you and hurt you until you die".
They harassed and assaulted me until they put me into an office and they started hitting me and twisting my testicles again as well as hitting me with fists. They kicked me continually until I was unconscious. They took me to Marble Hall just before the sunrise, and continually assaulted me there, de Kock and them together with the boers at Marble Hall. They took me now into the cell with the bandits, and said that these bandits were going to strangle me. A policeman came to me while I was in the cell and he said, "Steven, this is a wrong place, I want to take you to the other cell". From Marble Hall they took me and released me so that I could go home. While sleeping at home the soldiers came back a 12 o'clock, they took me and repeated the same story, twisting my testicles, an assaulting me with sjamboks. It was at a camp at Gamasemula. Now in this camp I was also assaulted, they used sjamboks and I kept on asking them why they assaulted me. They replied that I was a leader in Sekukuneland, and I asked what a leader was as I was not a leader but a comrade.
Now the same soldiers then, that is de Kock and company, they tortured me again. They took a choke which they put in my nose and then as I was shaking, they laughed. When they saw that this thing was really killing me, they switched it off and said, "Tell us the truth!" I asked what truth do they want as there is no truth other than what I had told them, they must rather kill me. But they said that they were not going to kill me but were showing me that I was stubborn and what they can do to stubborn people. WE spent the day in Masemula camp and then they released me and I went back home.
When I arrived home, and while I was still in pain, they came back. From 1986 until 1988 I've been in and out of the cells. The person who witnessed all these assaults is my mother who is here with me. I'm requesting the Truth Commission to listen to my mother if it is possible, as to the assaults that I received from the police. I've got two friends of mine who are also at Mutetema and I will request the TRC to also give them a few minutes to give evidence because they were together with me and witnessed the assaults.
When the soldiers came to pick me up for the last time in 1988 they turned everything at my home upside down, they searched for AK 47's and took money to the value of R2 000, my mother's money, they took it for themselves. We went to claim the money at Pokwane Police station, but were never given any response. I want to stress this because she was there and she witnessed the whole incident. Now at Pokwane there was a policeman called Lekutha, one of the CID, he came home together with the police from Mankweng,to pick me up and took us to Pokwane, we arrived there at the police station where they started interrogating us and twisted our testicles and using their fists again. Now I asked this Lekutha, what he was doing, why doesn't he kill me, why does he have to hurt me, but he said that they are not going to kill me, they just wanted me to feel the pain.
MR MALAN: You told us a harrowing story of the things that have been happening to you. You have given us much of that also in your written testimony but you've added a number of things which we've taken note of.
You asked about the possibility that your mother and friends also may testify. Of course that can be arranged, they will have to do it in the same way as you did it that they will approach a statement taker who will take their testimonies and then when we return to Pietersburg or to somewhere near to Pietersburg, they will be given the opportunity also to testify and add to what you've said, but they are very welcome and maybe they can even arrange today with statement takers when they can take their statements.
You've a long account of what's been happening to you and we noted that. I only want to ask one question for clarification and maybe some of my colleagues would also want to add a few questions. The question that is bugging me is, why did this to you, why did they keep harassing you for two years, were you in a leadership position, were you involved in many aspects ...(indistinct)?
MR MOGANEDI: Yes I was a leader at that time. I must say we requested the scholars to give us their support. It was on the third of March and they said no, they were busy with their tests. I asked them what we should do because we were fighting against the poor education and no one listened to me. I then approached the other community and asked them what we should do to get the support of the community. We came together by selling liquor at home so that we were disguising ourselves so that the police could not see that we were holding a meeting.
Now some were in the dining room drinking and some were in the bedroom caucusing and a person from Moshate came and then he went to tell the chief what was going on. He told him that there were comrades on the other side who planned to attack him. I was asked why I was fighting against the chief and what it was that I had against him, but I denied this and said that I only want freedom which cannot be easily achieved. I realised then that there was a conflict between myself and the chief and I continues with my comradeship work until I met another comrade from outside and on the third of March we started stopping combis and busses and I went to the schools personally to request the scholars to come and support us. That is the time when the Lebowa government was about to fall.
MR MALAN: Another question for clarification, in those days we heard much about the stoning of police houses and the burning of police cars. Were you involved in that too?
MR MOGANEDI: I think I've never been involved in the burning, but Mashego was my enemy, yet I've never been to his place to burn his house. I've never been to his place. He stayed with me in Jane Furse and he's still there, he doesn't want to speak to me. I so wish to communicate with him but he doesn't want to. This is the same person that I referred to in my speech, Mashego, the CID man, he twisted my testicles and I am just worried about them, that is what worries me.
MR MALAN: Any other questions?
(The Chairman asks for order).
PROF MEIRING: I have one question Stephen, you started your evidence by saying that you went to Tafelkop to look for a combi that was stolen and you got hold of the combi and you brought it back. Whose combi was that and by whom was it stolen?
MR MOGANEDI: This was the combi belonging to Wonder Furnishers and the people from Wonder Furnishers requested us to go and look for this Combi. It was used to transport meat from the butcheries. The comrades were inside, the school girls were raped because they were on their way from Ponura Store, then when we heard that this combi was now stolen and the school kids were inside the combi, we started searching for it. The Wonder people wanted the combi and said that if we get it, we will be rewarded. We went to search for it and got it and then we also received the reward. Now as comrades we took it to a place where we knew we'd discipline them. We took them to a stone where we gave them 10 lashes each and then took them to Ga Marishane where they were supposed to accept that they were guilty. The people wanted satisfaction because these radicals raped these school kids and we couldn't take the matter to the police because the police were our enemies by then.
Now we arrived at Ga Marishane, we made them lie on the floor and they got lashes. They asked for forgiveness and they were released to go to their different homes. Even now those boys left these terrible things like stealing meat and raping girls since that time and we are living happily and peacefully at Jane Furse at this present moment.
PROF MEIRING: You say that you took them and you lashed them till they confessed that they did steal the combi and raped the girls, is that what you were saying?
MR MOGANEDI: Yes, that's what I said. They also accepted that they were guilty of rape and they stole this Wonder combi and they took the meat that was inside of it.
PROF MEIRING: Do you not feel bad about your procedures at the time, by lashing people and torturing them into acknowledging that they did a crime or did something wrong?
MR MOGANEDI: No we didn't actually hurt them, we only lashed them on their buttocks. Each one of them got five and we didn't give them more than five lashes.
PROF MEIRING: I thought I heard you saying 10, a little earlier when you started telling us, but that's not important. Mr Moganedi, thank you very much, do you nave any further questions? Dr Ally?
DR ALLY: Mr Moganedi you say that you were charged with public violence, what exactly were you charged for, this was in your statement, you were arrested and you were charged with public violence, what was that charge and what happened?
MR MOGANEDI: These charges were because I was a comrade and they took me to court but I didn't plead guilty. From that time, on the third of March and the 6th of April till 1988, I did not plead guilty but they took me to court.
DR ALLY: And what happened in court, were the charges dropped against you?
MR MOGANEDI: Yes all the charges were dropped, I was acquitted and nothing was done to me.
DR ALLY: Just one last question, have you ever had a medical examination to establish if you are not able to have children or are you just assuming that as a result of what happened to you that's the case?
MR MOGANEDI: My wife is here, that is why I said to you I spent 12 years with her and nothing is happening. I sleep with her every day but I cannot procreate.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much. (Calls public to order)
MR MANTHATA: Do you say your mother can witness or can testify that you were mishandled by the police? Were you referring to the tortures that they were applying to you, was your mother close to you or in the presence of the police?
MR MOGANEDI: They would take me in the presence of my mother at home, but before they could go away with me they would hit and assault me. She would stand there and look at me, and I said to her, "Please mother don't cry, I will come back! But if I don't come back, don't worry". They wanted so many things from my mother and they forced her to take the AK 47 rifle out and she was even assaulted by those soldiers.
MR MANTHATA: I thank you.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much for your evidence. We will study all that you have given us. We will appreciate it if you will take your friends and your mother also to make further statements that can shed more light on the subject and we can study those when they come to us, and we will in due course come back to you and report to you, and we will certainly report on this matter. Thank you very much for giving us of your time. May you go well.
MR MOGANEDI: I have a request here, there are photos that were taken here. These are the photos of when I was still a Rasta. Now this is the only book that I'm left with, they took my books that were related to politics, they are in Marble Hall, this is the only book that I am left with, June Sixteen. I'm requesting the Truth Commission to retrieve those books at Marble Hall Police Station.
PROF MEIRING: We will certainly be having that also on our record. We will see what we can do for you. I'm not sure that it will still be there anymore but we will look into it. Thank you very much and thank you for coming to us. Good bye.
