ADV POTGIETER
Chairperson, it gives me a measure of pleasure to call to the stand the last witness, who’s testimony who we will actually hear - there is one statement that will be read, but this will be our final witness to testify in this section of the event hearing. That is Mr Ronald Benting who has arrived - some trouble to get here from an otherwise demanding schedule. Good afternoon Mr Benting.
MR BENTING
Good afternoon sir.
ADV POTGIETER
A warm word of welcome to you. We are glad that you could make it after all.
MR BENTING
Just about.
ADV POTGIETER
But before we listen to your testimony - I am going to ask you just to take the oath. So if you will stand please.
RONALD BENTING Duly sworn states
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you very much, you may be seated.
MR BENTING
My colleague Ms Burton will facilitate your testimony, thank you.
MS BURTON
Good afternoon Mr Benting.
MR BENTING
Good afternoon to you.
MS BURTON
[indistinct] thank you very much for being here. You have an important story to tell us this afternoon and we are very grateful to you for coming.
MR BENTING
Yes.
MS BURTON
We would like you to tell us about that day on the 3rd of March 1986, when you and your colleague were driving the children to the Astra School. So please tell us what happened and what you saw.
MR BENTING
It was on the morning of 3rd of March 1986. I was not returning from Astra School. At that time Astra wasn’t there, it wasn’t built yet. I was returning from St Joseph School where I dropped three pupils which attended St Joseph School at std 7. And I was on my way, going over Guguletu bridge to Manenberg area where I have to pick up children to take them to Astra School which was at that time in Wittebome.
On my way, over the bridge, I was stopped. I came upon a lot of policemen standing in the road and what is it now - Army - they were dressed like that and I stopped - pulled my - I stopped the bus. There was a man lying in the road. According to me he was alive, but he never moved.
And then amongst - amongst the lot that was there - a European policeman came up - out of the crowd and he approached the man laying on the ground. And he took out - I don’t know if it was a revolver or a pistol and he shot this man twice through the head. In front of me, in front of the 13 children that was in the bus, plus their housemother.
After he had shot this man, he approached the bus - on the drivers side. He came to me - he said to me in Afrikaans - wat de donder maak jy hier? What the hell are you doing here with these children - and I never answered him. So I just reversed back - there was cars behind me - I couldn’t - but they gave way for me and I turned the bus around and I went the other way around.
On my way I started picking up children. When I came down to Farouk’s house, the housemother that was on the bus, she went inside the house - and then she broke down. So the mother of this child came to me - so I said to her you know - I explained to her what had happened.
And I said to her, she must give her something you know - Lewensessens or in that case, something to drink and this she did. And then we approached and we got to the school, where, after I have unloaded the children, to the various classes - and then I went to the office - at that time Mr Ralph, he was our principle - and then I spoke to him. Told him what happened, what we have seen and then in the office - at that time was our psychologist - Ms Saffier and she also heard what happened, and then she said to me that she is going to call in Mr Van der Merwe. I must speak to him. I must tell him what happened.
And so the story came - that he came to me, and then the court case of Mr Weaver, that just gave testimony - they called - his lawyer called me to appear as witness and then I went to testify in court - what happened.
I think that is about all.
MS BURTON
Thank you Mr Benting. So you had what was it 13 children in the car?
MR BENTING
13 children and the housemother and myself.
MS BENTON
And the housemother that you speak of is Ms Pat Smith, who’s statement we will hear shortly?
MR BENTING
That is correct - that’s correct yes.
MS BURTON
And then after that you were on numerous occasions asked to make statements or to testify?
MR BENTING
Yes, I had to make statements for the court case and then I had to make a statement again for the - what do they call it - the inquest.
MS BURTON
Inquest right.
MR BENTING
Which was held in Wynberg, the court.
MS BURTON
Yes - Mr Benting - over your right shoulder, more or less, there is a map - if you wouldn’t mind having a look at it, and you will see at the top - where the N1 comes straight down, more or less the center of that map, at the top is the bridge.
MR BENTING
Yes.
MS BURTON
Is that the bridge that you came over and then where you reversed back?
MR BENTING
That is right, yes.
MS BURTON
Right, so what you saw was the events that took place along the N1 there - in front of you as you came over the bridge?
MR BENTING
That is right yes.
MS BURTON
Thank you - just to get the location right.
MR BENTING
That’s right yes.
MS BURTON
Is there anything else you had forgotten or you would like to tell us?
MR BENTING
No - no.
MS BURTON
Thank you.
MR BENTING
That is actually what I have seen and what still remains in my mind.
MS BURTON
Thank you very much indeed. I have no more questions.
CHAIRPERSON
Any further questions, Denzil?
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Chairperson. Are you still working with Ms Smith or are you still having contact with her?
MR BENTING
Yes, we are still together, we still work together.
ADV POTGIETER
It’s been reported to us by our investigating unit that Ms Smith had quite a harrowing time and that she is quite traumatized - even up to now and she finds it almost impossible to come to a location like this and to go through this again.
MR BENTING
Yes - ja - it’s actually from the second court case that we went. Even I myself, I had to tell the judge listen here I am not on here. I am only as a witness, but according to that they wanted to tear me to pieces. Like I am the guilty person and I think she can’t take it anymore you see, so I don’t blame her.
ADV POTGIETER
So you’ve had a rather unpleasant experience going through giving evidence in court in connection with this incident.
MR BENTING
Yes quite.
ADV POTGIETER
And it appears that Ms Smith was not really able to take that?
MR BENTING
She wasn’t - no sir. You see she is a very soft person you know - have got a soft character. She breaks down easily - I am perhaps a bit stronger you see. Because the principle asked me - how do you sleep? So I said, I sleep normally. After what we have seen - I sleep normally.
I mean that is only what I experience - I can’t for her now, being a woman you know.
ADV POTGIETER
We very - we very happy that - at least you are still able to have come and to come and repeat the story that you have told many times, but it was very important to get you here today, because behind you - seated in the first two or three rows are the next of kin, the family of people that was killed there.
MR BENTING
Yes I know that.
ADV POTGIETER
A lot of them have never heard the testimony that was given by witnesses like yourself and other people. So, at least today they can hear what you have been telling the court and then they can ask themselves the question - how did it happen that nothing came of this case - in the light of the testimony that was presented by that - that is the important thing of at least having you here and we are very grateful for that.
MR BENTING
Thank you sir.
ADV POTGIETER
Have you - have you made a statement to the police as well or have you only made statements to the attorneys?
MR BENTING
No, the police wanted to make - asked me for statements, but then a friend of us - Mr Betizaki - she was one of the teachers, the husband of the teacher - then he said to me - to us, you mustn’t make statements to them. We must rather make the statements to them - to the lawyers and then in that way - that is what we did.
ADV POTGIETER
We understand that - we have often give that same advice to our clients.
MR BENTING
Ja, because, what he said to me - is, they will turn the statement around. You know what I mean? And in that way - they did come and they were annoyed with us. I can’t remember now - I know he was a very big man. And I didn’t stand a chance against him. I said to him no - we did say we are going to make statements, but we have changed our mind and our lawyers have told us that we must not do that, so they left.
ADV POTGIETER
I understand. Just finally, Mr Benting, if you can still remember - or still assist - on that plan that Ms Burton referred you to, I don’t know if you can see that far?
MR BENTING
Yes, I can see so far, is only...[intervention]
ADV POTGIETER
Can you see there are two...[intervention]
MR BENTING
I don’t know where...[intervention]
ADV POTGIETER
I want to show you - can you see there are two circles with the G and an F written in at the bottom - towards the bottom?
MR BENTING
Yes, I see that yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Just underneath that intersection, now there is a line that goes from the circle.
MR BENTING
Yes, I see yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Now, where the line ends, where the line of the F ends - that is where the body of a young man was found.
MR BENTING
Was laying.
ADV POTGIETER
Was found or laying - now can you still remember whether that was about the position in which the person was which you saw being shot through the head?
MR BENTING
That was the Kombi that they were suppose to be in.
ADV POTGIETER
Ja, that’s is right. The one that is a bit over the curb.
MR BENTING
So, the man was lying nearer to the Kombi - more to the center of that.
ADV POTGIETER
Okay - so it’s roughly in the same vicinity that that man was lying.
MR BENTING
You see, I had a marker. There was two trees standing and I parked my bus - if I am seated behind the wheel, then I can look over across in - I was facing - I was center between those two trees, that was my marker sir.
ADV POTGIETER
So, you could place your position of your vehicle by reference of those two trees?
MR BENTING
Correct. That was the mark, because I was never asked to get out, you see. That is - that is - and the man was lying more to the center of the road - to that Crossroads - in the center.
ADV POTGIETER
We are going to ask you - if it is not too much trouble for you - perhaps just to mark it on the plan. Perhaps somebody can give you a pen or something. There is a pen behind you. George has come to the rescue, perhaps you can mark it on the plan.
MR BENTING
I don’t know - I haven’t got the trees on here.
ADV POTGIETER
You can - just orientate yourself first of all - just make sure that you do have it.
MR BENTING
You see I did stop at this distance from the...[intervention]
ADV POTGIETER
From the intersection?
MR BENTING
Yes.
ADV POTGIETER
That was about where your bus was?
MR BENTING
Correct - correct.
ADV POTGIETER
Was stopped.
MR BENTING
Ja correct.
ADV POTGIETER
All right.
MR BENTING
And the man was lying here.
ADV POTGIETER
Very good - thank you. You have marked it on the plan, so we have an idea where the person was. And then just finally - Mr Benting - from where Ms Smith was sitting, could she also see what was happening in front of you?
MR BENTING
Yes, everybody could have seen. You see, the bus - it is a civilian 25 seater. It is a very high bus. You can see, everybody can see. Even there was a child sitting in front of me and he could also have seen. He even said to me - that he saw two people laying under the tree, which I never saw. They were shot in the head. That was Cliffie Witbooi.
ADV POTGIETER
That was Cliffie ja.?
MR BENTING
That was Clifford Witbooi.
ADV POTGIETER
Clifford Witbooi.
MR BENTING
He was - he was sitting right across me. I was driving - you see the front seat is two separate seats where the engine is in the center and he was sitting on the one side.
ADV POTGIETER
And the children you were transporting, are disabled children - are they?
MR BENTING
Correct, yes. Physically disabled yes.
ADV POTGIETER
Thank you Mr Benting.
MR BENTING
Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON
Baie dankie. Thank you very much. - I just wanted to say Ms Smith - was a soft person, gentle person I mean and you - you - I think that maybe you are quite right that you felt perhaps as a man you might be - were expected to be stronger.
I would want to say and I mean and I am sure you would agree, that in the nearly one - how many months now - eleven months that we have been listening - we have been struck, in fact, by the incredible strength of women.
MR BENTING
Correct yes.
CHAIRPERSON
Somebody has found out that usually they said - they have been looking at the evidence that has been brought before the Commission - usually when women come, they come to tell the story of what happened to somebody else. Mostly they say when men come, they come to tell about to tell about what happened to themselves. Now it is not the case with you. But generally and we want to pay our tribute to the women folk, but we want to give thanks also to you. That you have not been afraid - I mean in all these years that you have held and sought to speak the truth when it was dangerous.
I mean the fact that your lawyers told you - don’t make a statement to the police. And the police who should have been people to protect society. Were the enemies of society.
MR BENTING
Correct, yes.
CHAIRPERSON
Now, I have said, we don’t’ usually make findings until the end of - it is going to much-much later, but all of us know that most of the police we had, were not friends of our society. They were not there to protect people. Mercifully now, they are changing and we used I mean when we were in the Grand Parade after the March in 1989, we said we must now clap the police, because they are becoming our police. They are becoming what police should be - protectors of the people.
But our history is a history that is made up of those who should have protected society, being the enemies of society. We give thanks to God that we are here today. And that we can tell these stories and that we must not forget what has happened - so that we do not allow it to happen again.
MR BENTING
Correct yes.
CHAIRPERSON
Thank you very much.
MR BENTING
Thank you.
