ACTING CHAIRMAN: I will now call to the stand Miseka Nancy Ngongo who is going to witness and give evidence about the victim Mbulelo Ngongo. Mrs Ngongo, we will start by swearing you in before you tell us the story about - we know this, he did go to the Transkei.
Those are areas in which he worked, we are very happy, those of us from that side of the kaya, to see Mbulelo's parent. Last week when we were in Umtata, the story of this young man was told. The day they fought vigorously for quite a - for 36 hours facing the Transkeian army with all the weapons of warfare and helicopters, it is quite a pleasure now, after we had been talking about Mbulelo and another young chap called Kaykay and Mpelo Macaghesa and today we are meeting you here.
We will ask Revd Xundu to swear you in before you can tell us the story.
REV XUNDU: Thank you Chairperson. I am happy to welcome you. You yourself have taken part in the struggle, people know you, they know your courage and your bravery. I am happy for you to be here to tell us the story of your son and your own story - how you were harassed. Can you stand up, both of you and take the oath.
MISEKA NANCY NGONGO: (sworn states)
REV XUNDU: Thank you Mr Chairman.
ACTING CHAIRMAN: At this juncture, I will ask the
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experienced one, the most experienced of us, the reverend himself, revd Finca.
MR FINCA: Honourable Chairperson, Ms Miseka, the Chairperson has already said that we are especially happy as this Commission to see you appearing before us this afternoon briefly shortly after we were in Umtata and heard the touching story of three young men who fought for 36 hours with the Transkeian army, who would eventually some of them fell in that skirmish.
Now we welcome you to this Commission and we take our hats off to you that one of your offspring turned to be a hero, about whom we heard in Umtata. I would like you to start very briefly because of time constraint, to just recall what any memories you have about your son, before he left his parents to other lands to fight for liberation.
What do you remember, what is it that is always a picture in your mind about your son?
MRS NGONGO: Firstly I am Miseka Vundi, who was born in Alexandria and I was married into the Ngongo family of the Gadebe clan in Qumbu, across the (indistinct) and Mbulelo was born here in Alexandria.
Mbulelo left here in 1980, when he left the country for training. He didn't escape, he left because we were taking part in the same struggle and he did tell me he was going to fight for the nation. I gave him the permission although I was a bit apprehensive.
And I said to him, Mbulelo my wish for you is to continue with your education, because at the time he was studying at Kwazakhele Senior Secondary school where he was a member of COSAS. He left at that stage of his activity and he went to Lesotho.
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In Lesotho they spent a year before they went for training, after which they went for training to whatever states they went to. On their return ... (tape starts) ... he was not in the first 41, then the other 9 fell that and we went to bury those victims.
That's when I met him with his comrades like Atwell Maqekeza, Tandofiqa Radebe, but Tandofiqa Radebe was a student there. The others from Grahamstown Maswai, Siphiwo Maswai, they were all working together and I had contact with him.
MR FINCA: Let me just interrupt you. When you got there, you found him with others. At that time what was he doing there, was he at school or was he working, what was he doing actually at that time?
MRS NGONGO: No, he was not working, he was in the struggle. He was a (indistinct), he was from training, he was now operational, he was going to be operating this side and when I got there, they looked for me and we talked and I established contact with him and we had some working relationship and we did things together.
What I mean is I was underground with them, I was operating underground. When they came, they would come and meet me, but what happened was in 1988, the story is very long, but I am going to summarise it, shorten it. In 1988 I got a phone call.
I was no longer staying at my house because of harassment. And then I was bothered by this phone, but I took this phone, just to listen what was happening. So I said, when they said, you have a phone, I took the call and the person who answered the phone, I said what sort of person is, and then I was described.
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When I heard the name, I recognised the name, it was Atwell Maqekeza, before he fell.
He said mother, I want to tell you, just want to find out what things are on your side because the Boers are on us this side and he said, I told him, no things are bad even here. I no longer stay at home. And I had already sounded other people to change their places of abode because - which we know. I said Glamluli Tsojzi cave the message that they should shift from their residence and they did change their residence.
But after all that it didn't help, didn't help because Mbulelo was there with Maqekeza, they were travelling to Mafeking in Lesotho, the three of them and Tandofiqa Radebe. That's where they got into a roadblock as the story goes, I wasn't there, I just got the story.
At this roadblock they were stopped. These people tried to speak to them, and actually tried to convince these people that they were trying to beg for mercy and he pleaded but it didn't help, these people were wearing masks.
Mbulelo saw one policeman was hitting Radebe and Mbulelo ran away. Then they went for Atwell Maqekeza and he fell down, Mbulelo had run away. So he went to tell his other friends who were not there that our comrades had fallen, this is what happened in a roadblock.
The following morning his comrades went to check to look, then they found the body of Tandofiqa and not that of Atwell. They looked for it and looked for it until they found it in the mealie lands. He was still living and they took him to a hospital in Maseru.
Atwell didn't want to stay in this hospital, but there was nothing they could do because his leg was very severely
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damaged, then came a call to me and I could hear that there were many people. Many people because there were some noise in the background. I had suspected that it could have been Atwell, but people didn't let me take the phone.
At that hospital his bed was close to a window, then someone came and shot Maqekeza, then Mbulelo - he was with a lady at Roma, I think that is where he went and relax. These people are laughing at me, you know everyone has somewhere where he goes to relax.
Four men came and they wanted to ask him who he was and he said he was a student at Roma University and they argued over this and this four, these three were about to give up. It was the fourth one who was clearly a Xhosa, he said you are Mbulelo Ngongo from PE and there was no way he could then deny it and then they took him away and they asked this girl to remain behind, they said they would come back for her.
I suspect that they were taking him to where he was staying. And then they came back.
MR FINCA: Sorry, sorry Mrs Ngongo, are these police from Lesotho?
MRS NGONGO: Yes.
MR FINCA: Do you know if he had a passport, a Lesotho passport or another passport for another country?
MRS NGONGO: No, I don't know, but I know he didn't have a passport, if he had a passport, it must have been a false passport, but I don't know.
However, he did say he was from the Transkei because that's where we come from. Even though they grew up here, originally we come from the Transkei, so he said these people took him.
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Lindialoma Begce, the girl with whom he was as he was tied between seats like a dog.
And they came back, apparently they came back to Lindialoma Begce to fetch her. They took her to Roma police station where Lindialoma was dropped and Mbulelo was taken away. Lindialoma stayed for two days at that police station.
She never met Mbulelo again. Lindialoma doesn't know these police when I asked her because I did try to arrange for her to come here to tell me what had happened, but when I asked her, she just said I just saw from their badges and then I took their names, that's how I kept their names.
On the second day I was released, but then I asked about Mbulelo on my release, about his whereabouts. They said you can go look for him at all the police stations, so she did that, went to all the police stations in Lesotho and they didn't know anything about him. They would show her the records and she wouldn't find his name.
So she returned to the residence at the university. She says from her side, that is as far as she could say anything about Mbulelo, so I went to a lawyer because I was phoned to go to some people who worked with him, phoned me to say I should go to a lawyer in Durban. Lawyer Qoinzamlaba, the Council of Churches arranged for me to go there.
I spent a night at a Holiday Inn hotel, on the second day there people were calling me from the labour office here in Port Elizabeth because my husband had died in December. As this happened in March.
MR FINCA: When did your husband die?
MRS NGONGO: He died in November, buried in December yes.
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And phones coming frequently and I didn't want to go because I wanted to start in Durban to talk with this - because I was very suspicious about these calls and the kids wanted me to go because they thought they would lose their father's money so I went to Durban the following day.
And having made contact with the Council of Churches there in Durban, they took me in touch with Qoinzamlaba, so as I was going out, I saw the newspaper and then I saw an article about people who have been arrested somewhere in Cape Town and I knew this people, because these were the people I used to operate with.
Because they had been away for some days, and then I just looked at this, then I knew these were the people. And I left the hotel, rushed to the township and then I phoned, told him Qoinzamlaba that I left the hotel because of the article, but Qoinzamlaba was happy with that decision, so I said to him what shall I do? These people have been arrested and they will not be able to hide my name because I am their link and they will be hit and they will be forced to confess, so he said I must cross.
So I said no I couldn't leave the country because my son was still very small, I said no I must go back to Port Elizabeth to fetch my young child so that I could live with him. So I came back, I said to Qoinzamlaba I am going home now.
So I phoned PE, I asked one young chap how things were and this young man said, no, you better not come, just wait there. So I didn't say I would come, so I phoned another house and I called another young man, whose son was surprised at my call and asked - wanted to know who I was?
This man said she is not here, Zakhikele is not here,
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then I was sure that they were arrested. So I said to the lawyer, I want to go home. If I go home today, then I am going to get there and go to the Council of Churches. I will report to the Council of Churches. If I haven't done that, then you must know that I have been arrested, then you should please help with my child, with Mbulelo and please do follow up this case.
Then his story about Mbulelo was that when he got instructions from Lesotho to follow up this case, he looked at the case and he was trying to investigate. Then after some time he found that it was very difficult and then one day someone came, someone unknown came to his office and Qoinzamlaba didn't want to leave the office and go and meet this person, but eventually he said he went out to see this person outside in the passage and he met this young man and this young man said I am Kaykay, I am not in detention.
Kaykay is this Mbulelo, that was his name, MK name, he said I am not in detention. Then I looked at this man, I said no, I said can you describe this person and I had a photo of Mbulelo, I said, now describe this Kaykay. Qoinzamlaba described this person. He said this person is thickly set, lightish in complexion.
I had the photo, Mbulelo's photo, I said is it the same as this person, he said no, it is not this person. I said no this is my son. He said no, I tried to confirm in Lesotho, I described this person to the cadres in Lesotho and they said no, that's not Mbulelo.
It was clear that it was part of the strategy of the Boers that was what Qoinzamlaba was saying, but he said he would follow up this case. I've been to Booi, because that is another lawyer here. Attorney Booi this side, Booi
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Majudina.
So I said to Qoinzamlaba, I am going home. I just want to emphasise that you go ahead with this case, even if you don't see me but when you ever think of me think of this case, because if ever I am arrested, I have no hope that I will survive because these Boers have long been looking for me.
So I left Durban, they took me to the station, taken by Qoinzamlaba's wife. At the station something happened which was a clear indication that they were looking for me. They asked for our passports, yet normally no passports are asked for at the station, so when this happened, I realised but I was prepared, I had a fake passport with me.
But the Commission here, she is trying to stop me, she thinks I am deviating. I was having a fake passport and then I produced this to this bus people and they looked at it and then they let me in until I got to PE, but then it is your day, it is your day because I just spent one night.
This one is in Lesotho, there are things that I may miss, that's why I wanted her to be here. So I came in PE, spent a night, the following morning I felt like, let me go to this labour issue, because that same morning the phone cam again.
Mr Nebe was the one who was working with my husband, because my husband used to work there before he died. So I was hopeful because maybe they were calling me. I was hopeful that he was going to do something for me, because my husband was his former colleague.
And that's what he was saying on the phone also to my daughter who used to answer the phone, so I decided I was going to - so I said to my daughter, let's go and my
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daughter said, no, I am scared. So I said, okay, I will go alone.
So I went to the labour office. When I got there I looked for this man, he was exited when he saw me. Oh, Mrs Ngongo, we've been waiting for you, what's, why did you disappear for so long? Take a seat here and then I said at this labour office and he told me stories and then one Boer came, Vorster, that is his name.
He also came to confirm that it was me. Another Boer was working with my husband, ran away. I got suspicious, but I had no way, I couldn't go out because these Tsaka's were milling around the building and I had not seen the police, so I said to Nebe, man, I think you should release me, I will come back tomorrow, but I decided that I would leave.
But they knew I could run.
MR FINCA: What did Nebe said about the real reason for his phone?
MRS NGONGO: No, he said he was calling me about my husband's UIF benefits and then he filled in some papers and asked me to sign. After a very long time, like two hours, Vorster came back, he stood, he looked, looked at Nebe and apparently they did some eye communication and he said, stand up. I stood, this Boer left, he said follow, follow this and he followed.
And Nebe came with us. I followed this Boer. I had not completed my real mission here, I was taken into this office and then to this office, and Nebe pushed me in and said, go in. He closed the door, closed the door. And I was closed in this office.
I was surprised and then I looked up and the place was
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some Boers there with their guns cocked and I was sure that I would never see my son, because I was sure they would kill me so that no one could follow Mbulelo's case.
Because my kids were still very young, were still at school. The Boers said who are you, I said I told them I am Mrs Ngongo. They said, oh, give us your passport, but this time I did have my real passport, I gave it to them.
I said here, it is you. This other Boer handed over to Vorster, this Vorster form the labour. He said finish your business with him and then the Boer from the labour said, no we have nothing to do with her, we were calling her for you.
And so it was that I was being arrested, then they said, no we will take her for questioning and this Vorster said it is okay, so they took handcuff and they handcuffed me.
And this Boer said you are very lucky that you were arrested here, because we didn't want to waste our time, we just wanted to shoot you, to kill you because you are filthy. Your work is very filthy. I said were you going to shoot a woman, you are such cowards.
I was besides myself as I was speaking, because I thought they could do whatever they wanted to do.
MR FINCA: Let me just interrupt you. Yesterday we were given permission to mention names of people that we know. Amongst the Boers you're talking about, the one's to whom you were handed by Mr Nebe, are there anyone whose name you know?
MRS NGONGO: There is only one Boer whose name I knew, it was Van Rooyen, he is the one who said their actual aim was to kill me, not to arrest me.
So they took me away, they took me to Louis Le Grange
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and they asked my real, physical address. I gave them my address, then they said, no you are telling a lie.
So I said, well I can't help it if you miss me when you come, it doesn't mean I don't stay there. Then they said any other address you can give us where you stay, what about Tsewo? I said, no that's my brother's house at 37 Tsewo Street. So I was arrested and taken to Louis Le Grange.
They were taking me up and down the police station. When I came, they said now let's celebrate, let's have a braai because we've got her today. They would ask where is your son, Mbulelo? Then I said I don't know, he is somewhere in Lesotho.
They said, okay. I said if you know his whereabouts then that is your business, but I don't know. Then I was taken to Roelofse then for him to see and confirm that I had been arrested.
Roelofse in his pocket had a photo, Mbulelo's photo. He would take it now and again and wave it like this and take it back into his pocket, and I said, no that's my son I have no reason to fear, but I want to know what you've done to him.
And they said I must, they displayed some photo's. They said I must identify those pictures, people in those pictures, I said no I didn't know those people, all of them.
Then they said this person is confused, they said amongst themselves. Other said, no let's bring her here, we will put her in the back and then other said no, this person is asthmatic and some people who were arrested, they would say, tell them that I was asthmatic.
So they said I should be taken to Rooi Hell and the following morning I would come and tell the truth. That
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helped me because at Rooi Hell I met some people at that cell.
Although I was alone in my cell, but on the two cells on both sides, there was one girl, Notami Nkozazuma had sent to Botswana. We talked, we shouted, she said, she asked are you not killed, I said no. She said they said they would kill you. So I said tell me what you've told them, so that I can prepare myself, so she said no I just mentioned the trip to Botswana where you sent us with number 1, our Commander.
She said you were the only two that sent me. She said so I just told them that I was sent and I was given, so I said, no that's fine. I just don't want to involve you in this case, I should be the one who suffers the consequences here and if someone has to die, I should be the one, I don't want you to die and leave your kids, your young kids.
MR FINCA: I just want us to push to the conclusion of the story. They detained you and after you came from detention in 1990, without being charged?
MRS NGONGO: I was charged, I was charged, I was charged for terrorism. And the case was heard in Humansdorp where I was taken in 1988, 1990, we used to go to Humansdorp. My lawyer was Sali Ganunu. Sali Ganunu. The Advocate was Musenaki and Potgieter, Advocate.
The case was heard and then they came to the conclusion that myself and another gentlemen who lived in, who is a shopkeeper Numzakazakhele and Nontubekho, they argued for our release.
So that the case should fall on the shoulders of these two young men and they agreed and that's how we were released. I am trying to summarise now. Then when I was
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released I was called to Lusaka, Chris called me to Lusaka. So on my release I went to Lusaka in December.
And Chris asked some questions about what happened, then I explained how we were discharged. Then he said, no, he had not yet found Mbulelo, he searched for him all over, everywhere and Lesotho authorities said they never arrested, but he was sure that Mbulelo was arrested.
And then he said when I go home, I should look for Mbulelo, but I should know that the Boers would kill me because in a family, they just want to wipe out everyone in a family. At the time I was leaving Zambia there were two young men from Transkei, from Muluwi, from the Jaftha family.
This place you mentioned, where Mbulelo and his friend fought and this young men said I should go and see their parents and explain and get other details in case Mbulelo may have been taken to the Transkei because it was known that he was operative in the Transkei.
Indeed, in January I came back from Lusaka and then I went to the Transkei, I went to Willovale districts and then I saw this house. They had described the house and the house was now - had been bombed and I got there, because that is where Mbulelo and other were attacked, so this man here, Mr Jaftha was exited, he explained everything to me, but he was so kind, he was so kind. Despite the pain that he had gone through and I searched and searched and searched, but I never got any direction or news or trace, some of the documents I left in Grahamstown ... (tape starts) ... documents I left in Grahamstown because I wanted them to make an article in the newspaper on my return from the Transkei.
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Then I could almost give up, but I didn't really give up because there is no parent who can give up on her child.
Then I came and asked from the ANC what was happening, then someone came who was sent from the offices of the ANC to tell me that Mbulelo was killed in 1986. That's when I said no, you don't know what you're talking about. Leave it, because in 1986, Mbulelo was in Willovale, he was still alive in 1986 and 1987. Mbulelo's disappearance was in 1988.
So I said to this gentleman no I can't even tell this to the children that Mbulelo had died. I won't mention this to my children, but I am not saying he is not dead, but what you bringing is not clear. There is nothing about Mbulelo that one can hear, it is all quiet about him.
And when Chris was here, he said I should send all the documents to the head office in Johannesburg. This was done because the documents were with (indistinct). I asked (indistinct) to send them, he gave them to Paqi to take them to the head office in Johannesburg.
I don't know whether those documents are still there, but they were sent up to - some documents with details about Mbulelo's case. However, Majodina tried to investigate even after my release from jail. Tried to investigate, find out from Lesotho and then Lesotho authorities admitted this time that Mbulelo was in fact arrested when Majodina compared the names that (indistinct) gave us.
Then they admitted that they did arrest him, but he escaped on that same day.
MR FINCA: How?
MRS NGONGO: The toilets, they said the toilets were at the back. He asked permission to go to the toilet and he
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went to the toilet and he never came back.
There was no further investigation about ...
MR FINCA: Is that possible for a person who is under arrest to be allowed to go to the toilet on his own here and then a toilet which is outside a prison or police station?
MRS NGONGO: That's all the Lesotho authorities said about him, admitting that they arrested him.
MRS FINCA: Mrs Ngongo, we want to get to the conclusion of this story. I am just checking, I think we have taken too long. Can you grind to the conclusion now? What is the situation now? Is it possible to - is there any news about him? Is he alive, or is he killed?
MRS NGONGO: At the time of my release a policeman, I met a policeman and I spoke to him and I requested him. I don't want to talk about the one who was hit by the limpet mine. He said Mbulelo was in with the first aid, but the policeman was still alive now is the one I am going to mention. He is still alive, he is still alive, Mr Bobeqe.
He is the one who said to me, when I asked him, when I asked for help from him, if he knew anything about my son, then he said, he said which one, and I called him to my house and he went. We are in the same church, I think that softened him a bit. So I said Mr Bobeqe, the reason I called you, I want you to tell me if you know anything about my son, he said I'll come back tomorrow morning.
He left and he came back, he had a photo, he said is this him? I said yes. Where is he? He said he is in the Free State. Is he alive, I asked? He said, no, I don't know, that was his answer. But this file I got and in this file it is said that he was arrested in the Free State, that's what is written in this file.
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But I will try and make a means for you to get a copy of this photo and all the contents of this file and then I'll give it to you. I don't care whatever happens to me because I really sympathise with you. So I said, that's good, I will be very happy.
However, I think he chickened out because he never did that. He never brought those copies.
MR FINCA: Is that in 1990 now?
MRS NGONGO: Yes.
MR FINCA: From 1990 to 1996, this year, any other news about your son?
MRS NGONGO: No, no news at all. Not at all, not at all.
Of all those people, and those who come back from exile, none of them have brought any news about him.
MR FINCA: Thank you. Thank you Mrs Ngongo. I am sure your requests like a parent, you would like this Commission to investigate about what happened to your son and they must investigate the truth whether he is alive or not alive any more.
And if he is dead, you would like his remains to be brought back to you so that you can give him a decent burial. Do you have any other request to make to the Commission?
MRS NGONGO: That is my main wish. If I could get the remains, even if it is his ash, if they burnt him, they could just tell me where they burnt him, the bones and I want to give him a decent funeral, because I didn't even have a service, memorial service for him.
That's what I would like to have now.
MR FINCA: Chairperson, I am sorry I took so long. This case, it was a very long story which brought up a lot of
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things that were handled in the Transkei police, please do accept my apologies.
UNKNOWN: I just want to ask Mrs Ngongo, have you ever seen Nebe thereafter?
MRS NGONGO: When I was in prison, I did ask the policeman, when I was in prison, after I was charged, when I was up, I asked the police to go to the labour office because I still want to go to that business, the question of my husband's benefits, so I went there and then I saw Nebe, he didn't even want to look at me.
I greeted him, now he pretended as if he didn't know me. On my release I went straight to him, I said Mr Nebe, do you know me? I am Mrs Ngongo and he said, no I don't know you. I said, no you can't tell me you don't know me.
No, you know that people do come out of prison, I've returned from the prison where you took me.
UNKNOWN: Thank you, Mrs Ngongo.
ACTING CHAIRMAN: We said this, even on two occasions, that in our liberation we have not yet grasped the extent of the contribution of women. So much so that reverend Finca raised the point that if this Commission did not have an occasion where it would look at the contribution of the women, it would be, it should happen, a mistake if it didn't do that.
And you are one of those people who is an example of the extent to which the women contributed to the struggle, but you have entered the thick of things yourself, working with the comrades and fighters that brought us this freedom.
If we didn't have time constraints we would let you talk and talk, we will apologise even to your daughter. This is not the last occasion that we will be able to listen PORT ELIZABETH HEARING TRC/EASTERN CAPE
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to you. Further we might even have a chance to listen to your daughter and to you.
Thank you very much.
