DR BORAINE: Chairperson, the following witness is Mr Godfrey Sengathedi Makola and I will ask him to please come forward. Mr Makola, if you would just please put on the headphones. Thank you very much. Mr Makola, a warm welcome to you from the Commission. I understand that you are a teacher at Soshanguve. Is that right? Okay and you have come to tell us about the death of your brother because it seems as there were many people killed in the march in Mamelodi on the 21st of November 1985. This is yet another sad, sad story. You can hear alright?
MR MAKOLA: Alright.
DR BORAINE: Okay, good. Mr Makola, you have somebody with you. You having a problem about hearing?
MR MAKOLA: Alright.
DR BORAINE: You okay now?
MR MAKOLA: Okay.
DR BORAINE: Could you tell us who is with you today?
MR MANTHATA: Yes, it is my younger sister.
DR BORAINE: We are very pleased to see you. Thank you and welcome to you as well. Thank you for coming with your brother. Mr Makola, Mr Wynand Malan is going to lead you in a moment, but as you know you have to take the oath before you tell your story. So would you please stand. Could you stand please.
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GODFREY SENGATHEDI MAKOLA: (Duly sworn in, states).
DR BORAINE: Thank you very much. Please be seated. Mr Malan.
MR MALAN: Mr Makola.
INTERPRETER: Sorry, the Interpreters would just like to point out that he might be on the wrong channel. We suggest he switch to three.
MR MALAN: Could you check whether the channel there is on channel three?
INTERPRETER: I will just help.
DR BORAINE: Are you hearing now?
MR MAKOLA: Yes.
DR BORAINE: That is much better. You must have been lip reading before which is very good.
MR MALAN: Mr Makola, you heard the preceding two witnesses giving evidence relating to the same incident that you will be telling us about. Please tell us your story. You have given us a statement, but if you will publicly also tell us, in your words, what happened that day.
MR MAKOLA: On the 21st of the 11th month 1985 in Mamelodi there was a march organised to discuss the rent issue. My younger brother Thabo Melvern Makola attended that meeting. Unfortunately we were in Soshanguve at that time. As a Comrade he joined those people and he represented my aunt at that march. After some few days we learnt that the child did not return back from that march. We heard that people died at that march. I was not in, around Transvaal, I was outside Soshanguve and Mamelodi. I learned that this child died. That is when we started looking for him with my father, but unfortunately we searched the boy for about 15, 19.
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MR MALAN: I think it may be easier for you while you are giving your testimony to take the headphones off. So when you finish and I speak English again, then you can listen to the translation.
MR MAKOLA: Alright, no problem otherwise. So on the 1st of 1985, during November time the Civic of Mamelodi went for rent march. So I think it was organised by the Civic and after that when they went there. So my younger brother was visiting there the aunt. Unfortunately, he joined the Comrades as usual. Then after a few days we heard from the aunt that the boy did not return. So we had a problem. After that we went looking for him from police station to another police station. Even at the Government Mortuary. Unfortunately, we did not get him at the Government Mortuary. So the search was for about 19 days. So we went to the police station again, we went to the mortuary again.
After 19 days we heard from rumours that they were buried somewhere. So someone told us that, I am not quite sure about that one, but they said that, as rumours say, they were buried somewhere in Mamelodi at the base of the mountain. So after 14 days, I mean 19 days, so we went back to the same mortuary, we went there, but fortunately enough, that time we got him. So we questioned them what happened, why we came here for the first time, but they could not explain. So as a Phillistus said and Mr Msiza said, we went to Pretoria North Court. Unfortunately, everything was not gloomy during that time. Otherwise even the lawyers of LR, LHR were a little bit jumpy when we asked them. One of them said some funny stories about everything. So I became disillusioned and went away and never went back to the same
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court. Even today we are still waiting for these people to tell us what happened.
Now what is important today, I think, I am interested with the person who gave orders that day to mow people down and the other question I am asking is that why for 19 days we have been looking to and for, but we did not get the corpse of this young boy.
MR MALAN: Sorry, you may continue. The indication was just not to beat on the table because the noise comes through.
MR MAKOLA: Okay.
MR MALAN: You are welcome to continue.
MR MAKOLA: Right.
MR MALAN: You asked a question.
MR MAKOLA: Yes, my question is that I just want to find out about if it is a General, he must give us, they must give us the name of the person who was in charge of the army or whatever police that day. Then the question which must be answered, again, is that for 19 days looking for a corpse. What was happening to this young man because some of his clothes were, I mean, were stinking teargas. We thought, perhaps, he was shot, taken into a Hippo and after that, that is what we think, then tortured and after that being gunned again. So, another thing which worries us too much because the bullet was in a sort of a "Z". Meaning that he was shot in a "Z" fashion.
MR MALAN: Thank you Mr Makola. If you would not mind, I have a question or two just to follow up.
MR MAKOLA: You are welcome.
MR MALAN: You heard the previous witness giving his testimony, Mr Msiza.
MR MAKOLA: Mr Msiza.
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MR MALAN: You heard him when he spoke.
MR MAKOLA: Right.
MR MALAN: Just before you. He referred to an open inquest that was held. Did you attend that? Was there any inquest that you attended relating to your.
MR MAKOLA: Yes, I remember going to Pretoria North Court.
MR MALAN: So that was the same inquest into the mass ...
MR MAKOLA: I think so.
MR MALAN: ... killings and was there, was there ever a post mortem done on your brother that you have any results on?
MR MAKOLA: No results were given to us because I went for one day and I was disillusioned because things were not running in a legal way. Let me say we were not welcome.
MR MALAN: You have not had any feedback from anyone since the death of your brother?
MR MAKOLA: No.
MR MALAN: As you have heard we have some other evidence. We will follow through on this. We will probably get more information and we hope that we, in due time, can come back to you and give you some more information than we presently have. I hand you back to the Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Any, Russell Ally.
DR ALLY: Godfrey, you say that you have a suspicion that your brother may have been tortured, that he may not have been killed on the day of the march. Now why would you have that suspicion? Was he an organiser in, of the march itself? Was he quite active politically?
MR MAKOLA: He was not, he was just a youth who was taking part in a march. So what I suspect when I say that perhaps he was reshot, perhaps after being arrested or injured, it is what I think.
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DR ALLY: And that suspicion, are you basing it on the fact that you did not find him in the mortuary the first time, but only 19 days later? Is that what makes you suspicious?
MR MAKOLA: Yes, 19 days later.
DR ALLY: How old was your brother because I do not think you said it in your statement?
MR MAKOLA: At that time he was 16 years.
DR ALLY: He was 16 years old at the time.
MR MAKOLA: Right.
DR ALLY: Now you were not actually a participant in that march yourself.
MR MAKOLA: No.
DR ALLY: I mean, you heard about it later?
MR MAKOLA: Right.
DR ALLY: Now, this, the Mayor who gave the, who said you have got five minutes to disperse, before this incident were there any other confrontations between him and the community? Was there a, was there bad blood? Do you know that, other protests, demonstrations against the Mayor that you were aware of?
MR MAKOLA: Yes, as far as I am concerned during that time most of the Councillors were not popular with the community. They were not popular.
DR ALLY: But had there been any other confrontations before, direct confrontations between Councillors ...
MR MAKOLA: I do not remember. I do not remember.
DR ALLY: You do not. Thanks.
CHAIRPERSON: Tom Manthata.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you. From where we come we have always wanted things to be done on reasonable ground, reasonable bases. Where these are not too clear we often ask for
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clarification. Why would the students get into a rent boycott or a rent march, a matter which is primarily that of the parents?
MR MAKOLA: So I think that a student is part of the community and he must take part where the community is taking part. So I think he was adult enough to go to the march because he was one the people who must assist the community for a march.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Sir. We would want to say we will do all we can to try and answer at least the two questions, I mean, the one who gave the orders and as Wynand Malan has pointed out, we will hope to get to the bottom of incidents such as the one that you are describing and that we may be able to provide some of the answers that people are seeking.
The second question that you asked is something that struck us in a number of places where people have been given the runaround. You go to a police station, you go to a hospital, you got to a mortuary and things, you just do not seem to get to the bottom of things and we are very sorry, I mean, because that just adds to the pain that people were experiencing at the time because it would be far better to know as soon as you can the fate of your loved one. It seems to have been an additional torture that was being inflicted on people that they did not know. I mean often they were treated harshly. If they were not two people they thought would provide them with information and so we will also try to find out why it was that it took 19 days that you went to the mortuary on the first occasion and 19 days later the corpse is in that same mortuary where originally you came away with empty hands, but we also just want to
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express our sympathy as a Commission as I have tried to do with others of those who have been testifying. Although it may seem easy, it is not easy. We have sat now since January and have heard evidence from April and it is heavy for us as well as we hear of the anguish of people.
Even here we get another instance of how young people paid a very heavy price on behalf of the community to bring us to the point we have reached in our land. I thank you very much and may God strengthen you and your family.
MR MAKOLA: The last thing I want to ask is that, perhaps, we have streets around Pretoria which I think, perhaps, it can be the name of the street can be named, this name like, streets like Lotz Street, Boomstraat, can be Melvern Makola. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Order please. Although you may be saying it lightly we have a Reparations and Rehabilitations Committee and that is a Committee that must make recommendations to the President about how you make reparation to some extent to people and sometimes it is to the community and it may, sometimes, be by the kind of thing that you are saying which, I mean, we are taking lightly, but I would like to tell you that we are taking seriously as some of the suggestions.
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