CHAIRPERSON: Has Mrs Elizabeth Maseko arrived? Fekile, Mrs Maseko. She has not arrived yet. I am going to ask Lorraine Molema to come forward please who is going to be speaking about Walter Molema killed in 1985. Will Lorraine please come forward? Lorraine, welcome, thanks for coming. Are you following the translation okay? Is it coming through? Who is next to you.
MS MOLEMA: Margareth, Margareth.
CHAIRPERSON: Margareth and is Margareth related to you?
MS MOLEMA: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Hello Margareth. Lorraine, you are going to be speaking about your brother who was shot and killed. I am going to ask Mr Tom Manthata to help you with your testimony, but before you do that would you please take the oath with Dr Malan.
MR MALAN: Ms Molema, will you will please raise your right hand?
LORRAINE TEBOGO MOLEMA: (Duly sworn in, states).
MR MALAN: Thank you very much. You may be seated.
MR MANTHATA: Lorraine, take your time. We know that these bad things happened to you when you were still young and we thought that today you would be having an elderly person from your family who will be supporting you. In any case, please go on and tell us about what happened to you.
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MS MOLEMA: It was during mid-week on the 23rd. We were in our house.
MR MANTHATA: We shall just, Lorraine, let us stop for a while.
CHAIRPERSON: We just have a problem with the translation. If you do not mind, we are just trying to sort this out quickly. The audience out there, are you hearing the simultaneous translation okay? Is the translation coming through? I think it is just this side then. Okay, let us try again now. Is it coming through? Okay. Sorry about that.
MS MOLEMA: It was Thursday. I was with my brother and I do not remember well who was the other one. We received a call and my aunt answered it. She asked the person on the phone what was the problem and the name of our brother was Mpho and the person, my aunt asked if Mpho was shot and the person on the phone dropped the phone. They did not tell my anything because I was very young. I did not know what was happening. What I heard was that Walter and his friend were from a movie and they were at the crossroads and they said two girls approached. They were carrying groceries and some liquor. They say Walter asked those girls where did they shop those groceries. They say Walter took their chewing gum out of the girl's mouth and they started running away. Walter and his friend followed the girl. This girl who is standing, sitting next to me said to Walter they should not follow those girls because they ran into a policeman's house. So they stood there.
At that time Rambo took out a gun and shot my brother. They wanted to run away, but he fell down. Rambo pulled my brother and shot him again. This time on his head and he
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was looking at him. What is really, I mean, I am feeling a great pain because now I am thinking my brother would be alive here with us today. One of his friends left that scene and went to my father's place of work at work to tell him about the incident. My father went there and he wanted to find out what was going on. They say after Rambo, the police guy, after he pulled my brother into his yard he took the petrol bomb outside his house and he put them next to my brother's corpse so that people could think my brother wanted to bomb his house, but actually they say he just shot my brother. He did not want to do anything to his house. My father went there and he wanted an explanation. They explained to him what happened.
My brother's friends, the other Comrades, came the next morning and the police came. They started chasing those friends outside our yard and they started beating those boys with their guns and they were badly injured. They took some to the hospital. On the day of the night vigil the police came back. They started kicking the doors at our house and we ran away, all the family ran away. We went into a house and locked the doors and they came through the front door. They were together with the soldiers. They kicked the door three times and the door fell down. They came into the house and they started chasing away all the, even the elderly people who were on the yard coming to help preparing for the funeral. They told my father that they only wanted 50 people to attend the funeral and he told them it was impossible. He wanted everyone who wants to come and bury his child to come there. There were other boys who hid themselves in the ceiling of our house. There were other boys who wanted to come and give the speech at the funeral,
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but they left the place. I think those guys were terrorists, but I did not know at the time. The police went away and on the day of the funeral at the Church they came again and started talking with the loudspeaker and they asked why are people so full at the funeral? Is it the President's kid who is being buried. So we went to the funeral and they blocked us on the road. Other kids were travelling by bus and they were on top of the bus and they stopped the traffic. They wanted to know what were those kids doing. They told them to go back into their transport and they left us to proceed. People could not have lunch at the funeral because it was very confusing. They, everyone was confused.
After two weeks after the funeral my father went to his brother's place and they met this police guy who shot into the air and my father ran away with his brother, but after that incident the police never came back. That was the last time I saw them harassing us. I have had a lot of pain because in 1984 I lost my mother and we felt such great pain because my brother shortly afterwards, we lost him, and then my father had a stroke. He cannot talk well, he cannot speak well. Everything, he has to be assisted. I am taking care of my father now. We are only two in our house. I am suffering and I am still young and I am suffering. We lost family members. I grew up well just like any other kid who had a normal family, but after I lost my mother and my brother I could not enjoy, I could not live well because I did not know, grow up to know my brother well and my mother well and now my father is very sick.
I am now thinking that if it was not for Rambo, that police guy who shot my brother, my father would be well now. PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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I cannot even go to school because my father is not working now. I am staying at home taking care of my father. I am not enjoying this.
MR MANTHATA: Lorraine, (inaudible) told us who was telling you.
MS MOLEMA: I saw them myself because I could see the police coming and beating people during the funeral and everytime when they came they use to tell my father and harassing him. I was there. Even at the graveyard when they stopped, I was there, I could see these things happening, but the other things I was told by the family members.
MR MANTHATA: These girls who were from, who had liquor and the groceries, do you know their names?
MS MOLEMA: No, I do not know their names. I know the name of the police guy. His name is William Makeke.
MR MANTHATA: Is he still residing in Mamelodi?
MS MOLEMA: No, he stays in Soshanguve. I do not know where he is now.
MR MANTHATA: Were you Church goers?
MS MOLEMA: Yes, we were.
MR MANTHATA: Is your Church still supporting you?
MS MOLEMA: No, my father stopped going to the Church and he joined Zion Church because he is very sick.
MR MANTHATA: Are you also a Zion Church member?
MS MOLEMA: No, I am not. I am a Catholic, but my father is a Zion Church goer.
MR MANTHATA: How many ...
MS MOLEMA: I completed my standard ten last year, but this year I am at home.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you. I do not have further questions.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
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MR MALAN: Ms Molema, you were very young at the time, you were nine years old according to your testimony. Some of the incidents you witnessed personally and you refer to them. Some you say in your statement this according to what I heard. Then you talk about the girls and the cans and so on, the movie, them going to the movie, but you did not witness that first-hand. You did not see it with your own eyes and the same way as you say you were with your aunt when the news came. So you did not witness the killing. Who told you these, who gave you this information? How did it come about?
MS MOLEMA: When the older people talk you can hear even when you are still young. There are things that you can hear and understand. No one told me that my brother passed away, but I could see that he passed away, he died.
MR MALAN: So what you are telling is you are sharing with us the oral history of the community that you learnt from the older people? Some of it you witnessed with your own eyes. What you did not see you got to know because the older people were talking about it?
MS MOLEMA: Yes.
MR MALAN: This, what is his name, Marcus who went with your brother to Rambo, did the old people say why your brother was killed and Rambo did not shoot Marcus?
MS MOLEMA: I do not know actually. He, Rambo, only shot my brother and his friend ran away. When he fell his friend ran away.
MR MALAN: And does everybody accept that Rambo put the petrol bomb in your brother's hand?
MS MOLEMA: Yes, they understand because he did not have anything when he was shot.
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MR MALAN: Do you know anything more about the liquor boycott at the time?
MS MOLEMA: This lady who is sitting next to me. She was there at the time.
MR MALAN: I think we will get a statement from her too. I have asked that she be giving a statement to statement takers and we will follow through on that.
MS MOLEMA: Okay.
MR MALAN: But we have a policy where we do not get people on stage without them having made a statement. So they cannot give their testimony without us having had a statement oath before. So at a next occasion, maybe, she can have an opportunity. I do not think I have any further questions. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Lorraine, if I can just ask you by coming to the Commission and giving a statement, what are your expectations and hopes?
MS MOLEMA: I expect the policeman to be brought forward to be questioned and asked why did he do such a bad thing because if it was not for him I think my father would be healthy and well now. I want, ask to be compensated because if it was not for this William I think my father would be health and well now and he would be able to work for us. Maybe I would be at school now furthering my studies. So he cannot because he is now at home and very sick.
CHAIRPERSON: And your mother died before your brother was shot?
MS MOLEMA: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: A year before?
MS MOLEMA: Yes.
CHAIRPERSON: Lorraine, once again thank you for coming to
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testify. A lot of these cases, like yours, are cases which we are continually investigating where we are trying to get some idea of what was actually happening, the context. In this case you speak about a boycott, a liquor boycott, happening, that policemen were also being targeted, and it looks like this policeman who you mentioned with the nickname Rambo, was also involved, implicated in what was going on. We are following up on all of those cases and on this particular case we will certainly be following up and we will be looking out to see if Rambo's name comes up in other contexts and, as I said to other witnesses, if there is a need to invite these people to come forward to explain their involvement, to give their side of what happened, we are certainly prepared to do that. So your case along with all the other cases is certainly being followed up and investigated. Thanks very much. I know that you were very young when all of this happened. Thanks for coming.
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