CHAIRPERSON: We welcome you Mrs Shongwe. You are you with today? I would ask Mr Wynand Malan to administer an oath to you.
INTERPRETER: We just want to see if the interpreting is working. Can you hear the interpreters? Can you not hear the interpreters? Can you hear the interpreters? The technical people are now there. Maybe ...
MR MALAN: ... papers over the hearing piece, then it will not be effected by other. Put it on top, yes. It should protect it. Can you follow me now. Just before we start would you be prepared to please rise and take the oath please.
MARY NONGAZI SHONGWE: (Duly sworn in, states).
MR MALAN: Thank you. You may be seated. Mrs Shongwe, I am going to speak Afrikaans to you. You will hear the interpreting into Zulu. The reason why I am speaking Afrikaans is that your statement, in fact, is in Afrikaans. You are very bilingual as we said in the old days, you can speak Zulu and Afrikaans very well. You have given us a very, very comprehensive statement here. In fact it involves 48 paragraphs. In fact, 78 paragraphs, so we are very clear on what you want you to tell us, but we would be glad if you could stick to the essence of your story so that we can clearly hear what has happened, so that we can hear
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exactly what happened to you. What is your story?
MRS SHONGWE: 1990 In July a boy came to my house by the name of Sipho Zwane. We were in the same street. He is number nine and I am in number four. He was looking for David and the kids told him that David was not around. It was during the day. He also came back again in the afternoon because David had gone to work. When he came back in the afternoon David went to talk to him by the gate. So they were talking outside, not inside the house, but outside by the gate. I was looking through the dining room window. When David came back inside the house I asked him how do you know this boy because this is such a horrible boy. He said, no, there is something he wants from me and I asked what is it. He said, no, do not worry because we did come into terms. So we did not agree. So he left, he went to the gym. It was on Monday.
On Tuesday he came back, the very same boy around the time when David was coming back from work and David went out. When he got back to the house I said, David, today you are going to tell me the truth. Why is it that you are so friendly to this boy because he is such a bad boy. It is known, he is known to be a sell-out. He said to me, no, he use to be an ANC, now he has left the ANC, he has joined Commons Party. Now they are launching that party in Johannesburg so he has asked me to provide transport along to Johannesburg. I asked where he is working? He said Nampak. Now what did you tell him. David said, no, told him that I am not going there, I am not providing any transport because when the police come they are definitely going to damage my car or even shoot all of us. He refused.
On Wednesday they very same boy came. He told him
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exactly what he told me. When David came back inside the house I asked him what is it. Then he told me that, no, they said they were going to give me R400,00. This is so important, I must take them to Johannesburg. When should you take them, on Thursday. I said do not go there, it is dangerous. You are going to get hurt and why does he want you. Why can he not go to some other people who own combis. He said, no, I do not know Mama. I said be careful, choose your friends and you must be careful because we know that he is notorious.
He came back again at six a.m. on Thursday just before David left for work. It was on the 26th. He said to David we will give you now R800,00, can you please take us to Johannesburg. David, where is the money, because they have seen that David was totally refusing to take them to Johannesburg. Now the combi that we are talking about was used by Killer Maphosa at the time and David said probably I should go to Killer to tell Killer that I need to use the combi to take people to Johannesburg. We will get R800,00 for that. Well, they did agree and he took the combi. He told Sipho it was fine, he will take them to Johannesburg and Sipho left. In the afternoon when David came back David said, no, I am not even eating, I am not even taking my bread and tea. I want to change quickly into my tracksuit and off I will go and David left. While he was leaving I said, David, why are you going. He said, Mama, I am in a hurry. I asked did you agree with Killer? He said, yes, and that was the last time I saw David.
He disappeared on the 26th of July. He left David and he was, David left and he was not coming back. We worried, what is happening. It was now Friday, David is not coming
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back. I therefore left, I went to Sipho's place to ask Sipho's mum as to where David was or if they knew anything about David's disappearance. When I got to Sipho's mum I greeted her. I told her, you see, I am here, I am looking for my son and your son. Where are they? My son has not yet come back since then. Then she said to me, well, I am not Sipho's shepherd if you care to know. I said, now how can you say that? She said, leave me alone, I am busy with my work. I left her in peace. It was on Friday.
On Saturday I went back again. You know this thing was pushing me because his football club members were also looking for him and Killer was there also looking for the, wanting the combi to use the combi. I kept telling them, David is nowhere is to be found. Now, I had to leave Killer in the house. I went back to Sipho's mum. I said, hey, Sipho's mum, you better tell me where my son is. She said to me, you know just sit down, have a seat. I am going to tell you something. She took her cigarette and she was smoking suddenly and she said to me you know you must take some snuff and you go back home and take this snuff. When you get home you must pray because the people who are with David are murderers, marauders. They will kill him, but if you can talk to the ancestors and even your God, if you believe, David may be safe. I said who are those people, who are those marauders? She said, you know, those people are so bad. You just better leave now because I am expecting some people here. I said, no, I am not going. I am not leaving this house, I am not leaving you alone, you better tell me. She said, no, just leave me alone, I am going outside now and one woman came in and said, you get out woman, I want to talk to this woman. You give us some
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space. She said to me you also, please leave us in peace. Well, I had to leave there was no any other way.
I told Killer at home when I got there. Killer said, but mum, do you believe this? What is happening, that woman is insane. Well, we sat down and we said what can we do because David has really disappeared. We left, we went to some funeral of Mr Zwane. In the very same street there was a funeral so we had to go and attend the funeral. Just when we were at the funeral we got back. I saw Sipho. Sipho was there at the funeral. You know, he was walking so pompously wearing new clothes. You could see that he is walking so pompously. He was just behaving so strange. When I tried to approach him he just ignored me totally as if he did not know me whatsoever. I left him alone.
After the funeral we went back to the house to wash up our hands. When I was looking at the back I just saw some boys and they were saying you know people are, have surrounded your house. There are so many cars parked outside. I quickly left. I ran to my house. I met a kid, the kid was telling me, we are looking for you, go back home. I said I am headed for home. I found police there. I did not know that those were police because they were not in uniform, they were in private clothes. They were in short and in, you know, casual wear. I asked them what do you want here? They said where is your son, where is he? We are looking for him. I was surprised and astounded, what is happening here. I told them also that I am also looking for David because he left on Thursday with Sipho, taking some people to the rally in Johannesburg. Since then I have not seen Sipho. They asked me did you report this to the police. I said, yes, I have reported to every police
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station, but Sipho is nowhere to be found. Can you please, gentlemen, also tell me where Sipho is.
I went to Sipho's mother and Sipho's mother also told me that David is not known where he is. They were busy at the same time turning the house upside down, looking for things I did not know. You know, when I asked what are you looking for, they said we are looking for David, your son, the one who has disappeared. They left finally. Around eight o' clock they came back, 12 in number. They came back also. They were perusing, searching in the house, turning my house upside down. We could not sleep that day, they disturbed us. We were so astounded, we were so surprised at to what was happening. I do not know what has eaten up my child.
MR MALAN: Please take your time Mam. Have a sip of water. We will wait for you.
MRS SHONGWE: We could not sleep that Saturday evening. We could not even eat. Even to this day, you know, his child always cried me, asking where is my father. You know, it is sour, it is bitter in the house and we do not even know why we are crying. Perhaps David is still alive, perhaps David is dead. We would not know. How can we know or probably he has left the country. We do not know. We are just devastated. I therefore decided let me go to my aunty. I left, I was headed for my aunties place. You know, as if God was sending me, God was talking to me. When I was with my aunty I told her that, you know, my child went missing. She said, where you think he has gone to. I told her he left on Thursday. There were three of us, it was myself, my aunty and her daughter. I just greeted a boy outside. The boy was outside and I went on, proceeded into the house. We PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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were talking with my aunty. My aunty said, Mary just keep praying, God is going to answer your prayers, but I could tell that she was looking at me so timidly. She was shy also, she could not look at me straight. You know, I could feel some strange feelings sitting with them as we were talking.
The boy that I left outside came into the house. He came and stood by the door. When he came I could see him signing to my aunty to keep quiet. Now suddenly it was quiet. There was quietness in the room. I said to my aunty, well I am going now, I am leaving. She took me out, she escorted me outside and she said you must go so well and God be with you.
MR MALAN: Please excuse me for interrupting you, but I have to. I would like to ask you, I know that it is very important to you and you would like to tell us, but looking at your statement if you are going to be telling us these things that are not directly related to the, to your statement then we are going to be here all day because what you are telling me now is relevant to paragraph 12 of your statement. Can you please tell us what you saw on television that Saturday in connection with the minibus which was seen at the Hallmark Building and just tell us the most important events. At least try, at this stage, not to tell us everything that you have mentioned in your statements about your contact with people which are not directly related to the story. I know that I am complicating things for you and I would like to apologise at the same time, but I would like you to condense the most important events as much as possible. I know that you have this need to mention everything, but I am not sure whether
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we will be able to accommodate you in terms of time, but once again I would like to apologise for interrupting you and just ask you to tell us what you saw on television and events in connection with that.
MRS SHONGWE: As I was still astounded the police came and took me, told me that there was a combi accident in town. So you please come and see if you can see your child somewhere. I said to them how can you ask me that, why do you want to take me with because you have your pictures, you have his pictures and also you have everything in records and you every single information, but they insisted, they were adamant. They said please come along. I left with them.
On the road I was thinking, I was even saying, you know, I do not even trust these people because that is just how my son disappeared. I told this man that, you know, I have a heart attack and if we get to the scene of the accident I might even collapse, you might be facing problems. Please let us go and get another person to accompany me. They kept, the other one said, no, Captain Bard we shall bring you and you alone. I said, no, I am going to collapse, I can be sure and certain of that. They were adamant and I was also insisting that, no, let us go back and get someone to accompany me.
We went to Killer. Killer, the owner of the combi and Killer woke up and we took him with. When we were supposed to be headed for town, as they have said the combi, the accident was in town. Instead our direction was going to Britz. I was surprised. I said why are we going to Britz? They said because you said you have a heart attack, we are taking you to Britz. They said you shut up woman. They
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took a lamp, a lamp, they said to me you shut up, you better keep quiet because we know where we are going. The car was rushing and when we got there, when we got to the place, the destination, some policemen came inside and they were saying why did you bring this woman so quick. The other black police said you said we must be snappy, we must be fast in everything that we do. So we had to be snappy, we had to do everything quick, quick. They were busy having altercations at the same time among themselves and also screaming at one another.
One man asked is there any mortuary around. The other answered, no there is no mortuary and that, but you know what, I was told that, the other man said I was told that David has died and he was killed in Britz. When they gave me some, a blanket wrapping, a corpse and I was like, what is happening. Do you want to tell me that David has died and the room was filled with many people, hefty men, both black and white. They took me with and we went to the mortuary and we got there. After half an hour they got back and they sent one black guy to come call me so I can also go into the mortuary. They said, no, only the woman must, is allowed inside. Killer must be left outside. Then I said, no, I want Killer to come with me inside.
The man went back to tell them that she, I am insisting to come in with Killer. When we got inside, eventually they allowed us. We could see the corpse on top of the table. You know, they made things in such a way that I should think that the corpse was from the mortuary, was already in the mortuary. They said to me you open the blanket, that blanket, blanket that was covering the corpse. They said you look at this corpse. I opened it and I said, no, but
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this is not my son. They said, but this is your son. Just concentrate, are you sure, look properly. I did exactly that. What I discovered that there was a zip in the, and I tried to open this zip. You know, I could identify this corpse. I could not tell that this is my child. The way he was so brutally injured and the way they have fatally injured him. I pulled down the zip to look at the whole body of this corpse. This white policeman refused, he refused for me to open up the zip all the way down. He said, you know, you have already seen and you are already sure that this is your son. So there is no point in opening the zip all the way down.
I insisted, I opened the whole zip. I discovered that there was, they had stuffed some things in front of him and he had no underpants on. They had just covered him with some cloth. I screamed, I cried and I collapsed. When I regained my consciousness I was right next to Killer. Killer, and suddenly a doctor came in and the doctor said to me, you know, he held my head way up to my knees and after that he said I am just playing around with them, I do not have heart attack at all. One suggested that we must get an ambulance and take me to the hospital. I refused, I said I am not going to the hospital. You killers, you marauders, you murderers, you have killed my son and I am not going to that hospital. I refuse, I do not want to be taken anywhere else. You have killed my son, you know better. This, my son, was killed in Pretoria and you are just framing up a story here. They said, you shut up, you think you know so much, you think you are better and I collapsed instantly.
I was taken into a car, into a black car, to a car with black people inside. We did not go back to Pretoria with
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the same route we used going into Britz. We took another route, a different one. Inside the car I kept asking this black man, tell me, truly, what has happened. Where did you recover that corpse. They said you have already, you also saw. There is nothing we can tell you and we went to Compol in Pretoria Street.
When we got to Compol we went into the lifts way up the stairs and there was a bad room that we got into. It was so dark you could not see and recognise anything. We could just see some red lights, on the tables there was just some strings hanging and red globes. They said to me we want you to sign. They gave me a form to sign, you know, that paper had nothing on it. They said you better sign on this paper. I said why should I sign, why and why. They said, no, you are signing so we can be able to give you some funds to bury your son and also we will support you and your family and take care of you. I asked them just like, whenever did you try and do that. Whenever did you try to be so kind. Why would you want to be that kind to me. They said, no, you know at times we are like that although people mistake us to be so evil.
On that very Saturday or that happened on that very Saturday and we inside that room, dark as it was, I was asking Killer, Killer why do you think this is going on and on. Killer said, you know what, I think you must be quiet now. Just keep quiet because they are going to keep you, they are going to kill you now if you keep asking questions. Well, I said, okay Killer, I will take your advice, I will be quiet and I just shut up. They said to, they came back again in the room. They said you now have to keep quiet about this. What you have seen and witnessed, you must keep PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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quiet about it, you must not tell any person that also how brutally he was injured and killed. You have a big mouth, you must try to keep your mouth shut because that will be detrimental to you if you talk anything.
We were taken back home and at home they asked me what did you see. I kept quiet since I was warned to keep quiet because if I say anything that will be detrimental to me. In the afternoon that day there was a TV, we were turning on the TV and we saw something that was astounding and we were like, what it is that they are saying. They say a corpse was discovered in Britz and it is not known who the killer, the marauders were. We cried and some Comrades came in to ask what has happened. We have seen on the TV what has happened.
On Monday morning I went to the police. When they came into the house they could not see us. They got so mad for the fact that they could not find us home. You know, every now and again they could come into my house. So many cars would be parked outside as if they were running after some animal of some kind. When we went with Killer to the attorney in town I said to them, you know, I have seen a lawyer of the Human Rights, let us go there. They refused, they said, no, we have our own lawyer, let us go to our own lawyer. I do not know whom they have sent there, you know, to trap us or something because we are always under surveillance. They knew every single action that we were doing. My girl said she saw a white man fidgeting with the telephone receiver as is there was something they were putting inside the telephone.
We went to the lawyer to give statements and also what we have witnessed. They were there. There, you know, I was PRETORIA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG
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like a bunny of some kind, an animal because they were always running after me. You know, we each, at times I would even try to hide and they will just pass not seeing me where I have hidden. That was the kind of life I was under those days. People would ask me what is happening, you keep running and so forth. I said, well, that is the kind of life I am leading now. We eventually went to the lawyer and the lawyer also came outside and told me that, you know, someone broke into my office as well. I think this statement of David's must be kept under serious conditions because they are looking for this statement.
When we were looking opposite of the lawyer's office there was a parking space for the vehicle. We could see them in that parking area, parking lot looking direct to the office of the attorney. You see they could not see us inside the office, but we could see them outside. One of them ...
MR MALAN: Can I ask you to please tell us specifically what you saw on television. We have all the other information about the conversation with the attorneys. You do have all that, but I mean, you are not giving us information relevant to how this whole thing was solved. You saw something on television, you saw the combi at the Hallmark Building which, the combi your son was driving and you also have further information about how you saw who was, how you find out who was responsible for your son's death. Do you not please just want to tell us those two things, please.
MR SHONGWE: As we were still amazed, surprised there, when they were taking the corpse on or when they were showing the corpse on the television they also showed the combi scratched outside, with scratches. We saw that combi and
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they were saying that David was in that Combi and David planted bombs in Hallmark Building where that combi is parked and we were surprised. Where David got those bombs because we knew David to be a very innocent person. He was not even affiliated to any of the political organisation. How could he do that because he was not even active in as far as politics were concerned.
The City Press also came to ask us questions so we could tell them what we know. We went to the building. We were refused entrance except the people who were working there like soldiers and, we went. The City Press journalist went, insisted to go in and he found us some information that that combi was driven by whites and apparently ... This boy said he witnessed everything, he saw everything that happened. So the boy came to tell us. You know, I felt better now that I knew the truth. This boy who witnessed this, there are some people who attacked at his place. We just heard afterwards that Ellias had taken this boy to a place of refuge somewhere in Johannesburg.
MR MALAN: It is very important, I know you would like to tell us everything, but we would like to know, they arrested somebody at stage in connection with your sons's death. Is that correct? Who did they arrest? Do you not want to tell us that?
MRS SHONGWE: A boy from Mamelodi by the name of Ellias Mabena was arrested from Mamelodi.
MR MALAN: Did they tell you they arrested him because of the murder on your son?
MRS SHONGWE: They said these murderers were two, but one has fled by the name of Ellias and Ellias Mabena did appear in court.
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MR MALAN: Was there a court case?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes.
MR MALAN: Did you attend at Central?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes, in Pretoria.
MR MALAN: Did Mr Mabena appear in court?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes.
MR MALAN: Was he represented by an attorney?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes, he had a State Attorney. You are welcome to listen to the interpretation, but it is clear that you understand me when I speak to you in Afrikaans. You say that there was an advocate representing him as well and you also mentioned in your statement that he applied for amnesty, this Mr Mabena, and that he was granted amnesty. Is that correct? Is that correct?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes, that is correct. He was granted amnesty, but that amnesty, he did not disclose the reasons why he killed him or what had happened, but he was indeed granted amnesty.
MR MALAN: You brought to our attention an affidavit which Mr Mabena laid before a magistrate. Is that so? You gave us a copy of a document, a copy of an affidavit which Mr Mabena submitted where he acknowledged his part. Is it true that you have a copy in your possession? Was it given back to you, did you receive it?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes.
MR MALAN: Would you like to tell us what he says there? What did, what was his explanation, what did he say? Can you remember what he said? I think if you turn the page there is a short explanation which he gave. What did Mr Mabena say?
MRS SHONGWE: He said he shot him twice or three times, but
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the day when we went to the Courts of Law he did not explain as to what had happened and why. They also told us that this case will be postponed and we will be called again, but we were never called up to this day, but he was granted amnesty. When we heard that they were at the Court of Law the attorney was, were not there during that time, that court case. So we do not know what was discussed.
MR MALAN: Can you remember that he mentioned in his affidavit that he simply needed the combi and that they were not specifically looking for your son, but that it was merely coincidental that he was in the combi, that he was at the wrong place at the wrong time and that is how he was shot. Is that what he said, that they took the combi? Is that what they said?
MRS SHONGWE: That is not true.
MR MALAN: Can you read? Have you got the declaration in front of you? You gave us a copy of that declaration. That does not particularly matter. We will look into the matter. You said in your statement that he was granted amnesty and that he was honoured. What was that for? Do you know who honoured him and why?
MRS SHONGWE: I do not know. I would not say, but at the Court of Law he was laughing at us, making us laughing stocks. He was not showing any signs of being regretful or, whatsoever.
MR MALAN: Thank you very much Mam. I would just like to put one more question to you. You say that you took the police to where you went to see the corpse. That was at Britz Police Station. Are you certain that it was a police station or was it somewhere else in Britz?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes, I am certain. That is Britz Police
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Station.
MR MALAN: Fine. Thank you very much Mam. I have no further questions.
PROF MEIRING: Mrs Shongwe, just one more question. You said that your son, David, is survived by two children. I would just like to know where they are. Are they with their mother or who takes care of them?
MRS SHONGWE: No, they are with me. One is with the grandmother at Witbank.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much.
CHAIRPERSON: Sorry. Russell.
DR ALLY: If I could just ask you one or two questions please. The person who admitted responsibility for the death of your son, was, it says a member of the ANC, David Mabena. Did the ANC ever speak to you about this event. Did they ever approach you and discuss this matter with you?
MRS SHONGWE: Yes, ANC was so helpful, but the ANC did, the Lawyers for Human Rights did come to me although the ANC as a body did not come to me. I had to pay them though. You know when we got to Britz we wanted our own doctor so the Lawyers for Human Rights did pay. ANC was not so helpful.
DR ALLY: And then you also, Zwane, who, sorry, Zwane, whose name came up in the beginning, he was the one who approached your son in the beginning. His name comes up again. What, and in your statement you say that he was also thought to be involved in this. What happened with Zwane? Is there anything more you want to tell us about Zwane?
MRS SHONGWE: Zwane was always collaborating with the whites. He was also in the National Party. We have always heard a lot of things about Zwane, how notorious he was and he is the very one who took my son and that was the end. I
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never saw my son after that and since that day we do not even look at each other. He always avoids me. He also disappeared for quite some time and also this Sipho Mabena, he is the one who killed. I do not believe that, I do not that believe that. I do not even know why he said he did that because if he was the one those whites were not going to bother us. Why were those whites bothering us because they also wanted to kill me. I had to leave my place to some farm and also hide, get some place of refuge at Pastor Modise's place. We left the house. We had to avoid these whites. If it was Sipho for sure, why are these whites after us. Also they kept saying they will give me money and support my house and taking that much responsibility. Why would they want to assume such responsibility if he was killed by the ANC?
CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Shongwe, we are touched by your story and we shall do the best we can with the few leads that you have given us and the people that you have referred to together with the organisations that you have hinted. We, you can be assured, that we will do the best to investigate who actually killed your child or where your child could be if it can still be possible. All this will be done or achieved with your co-operation. We thank you and your family. Thank you for the day.
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