COMMISSIONER: I want to call Mrs Anna Ndlovu to the table now please. Mrs Ndlovu I also welcome you warmly. You were also not here this morning when we greeted all the other witnesses. You are going to talk also about that period because again in your statement Ketisi's name comes up and you are going to talk about Hunter Ndlovu your son who I understand is in prison, and I hope that you are going to be able to throw some light on some of the issues that we are talking about here today. Before I ask Professor Piet Meiring who is going to help you with your statement can you please stand to take the oath.
ANNA NDLOVU: (sworn states)
PROF MEIRING: Mrs Ndlovu thank you for coming. The child on your lap, can you introduce us to the child.
MRS NDLOVU: This is Tabang, my daughter's child.
PROF MEIRING: I am very grateful that you brought your daughter's child along. Mrs Ndlovu I am going to invite you first to tell your story and then afterwards maybe we could ask you a number of questions. But please relax and tell us what happened on the day you want to testify about.
MRS NDLOVU: These things began around 1990. I have heard things being said about Ketisi, Ketisi is coming from a meeting, I don't know whether he was with Temba and somebody else and the other civic. They were staying, they were living so well because they had cars. When we arrived here in 1979 my son was younger and Ketisi was older than him and HRV/1052 they/...
2
they used to call him to wash out the cars, clean up the cars. It went on and on. I heard that he was attending meetings and so forth and I heard from that meeting it was said Ketisi shall be shot. No one came to tell me about this, I just heard rumours, the hearsays from the buses and from other people. And as time went on, one day when I was coming from work I heard that Ketisi has been shot. He was shot there at the civic. I cannot even point at those civics because I don't know much about them. I saw the police cars outside at night and I looked through the window and I just heard that Ketisi had just been shot. The following day is when I went for work and I hadn't met his mother then. When I got back from work I found out that Ketisi had been shot right there at the civic. I don't really want to lie, I don't know what was the problem really. Because they used to say Ketisi is driving cars and he's not working. And I also heard that when Ketisi gets killed his friends also has to be killed. I never thought really, to tell the truth, that I will also be affected by this. Afterwards I heard that my child also has to be killed because I am the neighbour of the Ketisi's. One day I heard that people had been shot and I heard also that - I was surprised because what I knew is that Ketisi was at the hospital. The case went on and on. I really don't know how far the evidence went. When they arrested they also came to kidnap my children and they were taken to the civic of the Zone 12 to tell the truth because if they don't they will burn my children, all of them, because we were their neighbours and were eventually affected by that. I said I don't know anything, I really don't know anything but God knows everything. They said I am a liar, I know so
HRV/1052 much/...
3
much, yet I didn't know anything. I opened the house and I said come in and check, check, search in the house and see if you will find anything because I know I'm innocent in this whole matter. They said they were going to burn me. I said I don't care even if they kill me but God knows better. After a week and after two weeks they brought us home. When we got home people were so scared of us as if we were animals, as if we kill, as if we are killers that's how they were scared of us, avoiding us. I never went to Madala. Really I know I am innocent in this thing. God knows better. If they so wish they can kill me but I know that I am innocent.
COMMISSIONER: Mrs Ndlovu I will ask for you to be calm and relax. Get a glass of water and take some water. Take your time and tell us your story.
MRS NDLOVU: When we got back things had changed. We were there and they will sing about me saying I am a pretender along with, together with Ketisi's mother. We know much better than this. And I really don't know why they were accusing me of things I did not know. And I decided to leave. In 1992 they shot my son at the shops. Sipo came to tell me that Thesilo has been shot by other comrades. After that one other came, also one of the comrades, he warned me to leave the house because they've already shot Silo and I must run away, I must leave the house because they were coming now to burn the house. And he also further went on to say run away, you must leave, because they were saying, they were waiting for the schools to open and as soon as the schools have opened they will come and burn the house. We left truly the house hoping that after some time when things have calmed down we will get back. And I left the house.
HRV/1052 We/...
4
We left for Zone 10. It was a week already, they hadn't burned my house. And they left, after that I just heard that they had burnt one other house. And when the second week came that's when these things started, they burned my house. My house was destroyed completely by fire. To show that I was innocent I got back home and I occupied the house again and I made use of the things that were not affected by fire and I used them. I tried to take those things which were not destroyed and they told me that things have changed in the location and I went to the police station and when I got to the police station I was told that I should go back home. I was then told that there were now trenches in the streets. They have organised the transport to sell my belongings. The police knew exactly the people who were burning our houses. I wanted the people to appear before us. We have never seen people who killed other people, we haven't seen these people who have been burning our houses. So many things have happened. We were assaulted. I even left the church because I was referred to as an Inkatha member.
I remember in 1985 with the Sharpeville Six issue I was a woman belonging to a church organisation. We were kneeling with our knees, praying for those kids, because we've already heard that they were going to be hanged and God listened to our prayers because at a later stage we heard that they have been paroled. Because I was a woman belonging to a church organisation I knelt and I prayed. I wanted to meet the Bishop because he was a member, or a priest of our church.
PROF MEIRING: Mrs Ndlovu maybe you should relax a little bit and have a glass of water and then we will continue. But may I ask again may we have silence please. I wonder if HRV/1052 I/...
5
I can take you a little bit along in your testimony, after your house was burnt you say in your testimony that you moved to Vereeniging.
MRS NDLOVU: Yes that's correct Sir. I rented a garage at a White man's place. I think I spent a year.
COMMISSIONER: Mrs Ndlovu do you think we can postpone your time so that we give you a time later?
MRS NDLOVU: No I will try to speak. We moved to Vereeniging and we rented a garage at a White man's place and while we were there we were scared to report to the police because we were being hunted by the people. I went to the police after going to another church called New Vaal, people were getting food there. They wanted to know the facts as to whether my house was burnt. I said no it's true my house was burnt. They said go first to the police station because we don't want people coming to get food free of charge. They said I should go to Vanderbijl Park. And I went to Groen Punt, when I got there they referred me to Vanderbijl Park to submit my statement. That's where I handed my statement in. My house had been a year being burnt. They asked me why didn't I report at first, I said no I was scared to.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you very much. You have been telling us your story Mrs Ndlovu and we all know it was very difficult, it was a harrowing experience for you to tell your story. I wonder if you relax a little bit and if we are able to ask just a few questions to clarify a number of issues and then we can allow you to go back to your chair. The first thing I would like to ask you is about your son Hector, where is he at the moment, Hector?
MRS NDLOVU: He is at Leeuwhof(?) Prison. Hunter is at
HRV/1052 Leeuwhof/...
6
Leeuwhof Prison.
PROF MEIRING: So he's at prison at the moment.
MRS NDLOVU: Yes he is in prison at this moment.
PROF MEIRING: A difficult question I want to ask you, do you think that you had a bad time because of the fact that Hunter was seen to be one of the friends of Ketisi, of Victor Ketisi? Or was it because of the fact that he belonged to the IFP? In your statement you say that,
"I heard that my house is going to be burnt because my child is IFP".
Now if you think clearly was the reaction because he was a member of a political group or was the reaction because he belonged to, he was seen to belong to the gang of Ketisi?
MRS NDLOVU: I think all this happened because he was a friend of Ketisi.
PROF MEIRING: It was not so much a political thing, it was because of his friendship with his neighbour?
MRS NDLOVU: That's what I think. I am not too sure about it.
PROF MEIRING: Is it difficult, or was it difficult to be a family that belonged to the IFP in Sebokeng in that time?
MRS NDLOVU: Yes it was difficult. You know even now I am so sick I get those pains inside me since then. Even my hand is not working properly. I have stress, I can't sleep peacefully. My life has completely changed. I often ask God to help me, to help me through all this.
PROF MEIRING: Thank you Mrs Ndlovu I have no more questions. Maybe some of the Commissioners have questions.
DR RANDERA: Mrs Ndlovu are you sure you don't want to stop now?
MRS NDLOVU: No Sir.
HRV/1052 DR RANDERA/...
7
DR RANDERA: Just drink some water. Mrs Ndlovu we can all see how painful this is for you, so just take your time. Okay are you alright?
MRS NDLOVU: Yes.
DR RANDERA: Mrs Ndlovu can I come back to what Professor Meiring already asked you, you said Hunter is in prison at the moment.
MRS NDLOVU: That's correct.
DR RANDERA: Why is he in prison?
MRS NDLOVU: People died in Zone 7 in 1993 and that's the case he's been convicted of. Ketisi was not dead by that time. Ketisi died at the time when they were arrested together with Hunter. I can't remember the month, but it was in 1993.
DR RANDERA: So was Hunter a member of Ketisi's gang?
MRS NDLOVU: They were walking together, they used to be together.
DR RANDERA: How old is your son Mrs Ndlovu?
MRS NDLOVU: He was 24 years old.
DR RANDERA: Were you or your husband or other members of your family ever members of Inkatha?
MRS NDLOVU: No we haven't been members of Inkatha. We haven't been members of ANC, neither Inkatha.
DR RANDERA: Where are you living now Mrs Ndlovu?
MRS NDLOVU: I live in town and my husband is working for Rand, and we was really starving because we have to pay R750,00 for the house besides rates and taxes and we pay R65,00 for the children for school because they attend school at Vaal school.
DR RANDERA: And your property in Sebokeng, what has happened to it?
HRV/1052 MRS NDLOVU:/...
8
MRS NDLOVU: They had taken all my property away, selling my property, and the people from the location know that better because they are the very ones who bought those things. You know I feel very bad. There are houses that have been burnt in the location, you know they will only burn the houses with the big windows because they will suspect that those houses belong to the Inkatha people.
DR RANDERA: Sorry Mrs Ndlovu my last question. Today you have come to the Commission to tell us about what happened to you, I want you please to, in your own words and in your own time to try and tell us why you think this happened to your family and what can we do to try and ease this pain that you are going - you talk about the fact that you can't sleep, that you are having pains all the time, that you are depressed, what can we do to help you?
MRS NDLOVU: I will ask for the Commission to help me with accommodation because where we are it's really expensive. It's just difficulties left, right and centre. I struggle, even about my children I cannot work and I cannot be employed.
DR RANDERA: Thank you Mrs Ndlovu.
CHAIRPERSON: Mrs Ndlovu we thank you for coming to share with us about what happened in your life. We are very sorry about all what you have said today. Also you have this huge pain in you. We as parents we do suffer as a consequence of what our children do. When you sleep at home you don't know what your child is doing out there at night. We try by all means to raise these children in a good way not knowing what's happening out there when they get to the streets. We end up suffering as parents just as you are suffering today as a parent. And even people of Vaal did experience some
HRV/1052 pain/...
9
pain about the people who've been killed in this place also they do show that they don't trust, even the policemen who were actually supposed to investigate all those things, so that all the people, the perpetrators shall come forward and be disciplined. They have expressed some disillusionment also in the lack of enthusiasm that was expressed by our police in finding out and solving the problems in this area. So it's clear that the pain was both sides. You see when many people are seeing that the police are not doing their job they take the law into their own hands and want to do justice. The pain is there now. I do feel bad that you even left the church when you see that the church was helpless, could not help you in any way. Also I feel bad that today Bishop Tutu is absent as he was your Archbishop in your church you would have spent some time with him if he was here. We will kindly ask you to go back to church so you can regain that strength back and prayer will help. The truth still has to come out and as I see, by the look of things the police should come forward, the very police you are talking about should come forward and reveal the truth. And also your son Hunter is in prison, he is awaiting for an opportunity to say all what he can say. We do trust and hope that when that case begins again the truth will come.
We have heard all your requests. As I have said already we will forward all those requests to where they should be. Thank you.
