CASE NO: CT/O1408 /UPI
VICTIMS: ANDRE THOMAS
SUSANNA ELIZABETH THOMAS
NATURE OF VIOLENCE: SHOOTING BY POLICE
HOUSE FORCIBLY ENTERED AND SEARCHED
TESTIMONY FROM: ANDRE THOMAS [son]
MR POTGIETER: Andre, good afternoon. Who is with you today?
MR THOMAS: It's my uncle, Andries.
MR POTGIETER: And is Ambrosius the other uncle but he was not available to be here today?
MR THOMAS: Yes.
MR POTGIETER: All right, we would like to welcome you both here today. Thank you for accompanying him. Andre before we listen to your evidence I am going to ask you to take the oath so would you please stand.
ANDRE THOMAS Duly sworn states
MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated. Your evidence deals with an incident which is very well known in Kakamas. It took place on the 13th February 1988. Your evidence will also give us some background for the next case which we will hear, which deals with the same incident. The witnesses coming after you will also talk about people who were shot and killed in the same incident. So you're going to tell us your own story, your own experiences but it will also give us some context and background for the testimony which we are about to hear, which we will hear later. So bearing that in mind I am going to ask you to sketch a bit of the background for us, especially as regards the political circumstances reigning at the time because it is important to scrutinize the events very closely to be able to understand what exactly happened. Would you please sketch the circumstances and background for us, your own personal involvement as well. That will give us some background to the events. Over to you. --- Well you see sir it started during 1988, we were transferred to Keimoes to the Kakamas High School. The school had to be given a name and we were appointing candidates for the list of candidates. We used different names, Andrew Julies High School and W A Boesak High School - Oranjesuid was a name, there was Oranje Over was also suggested to be put on the list of names and we held a ballot to vote about the issue of a name. The result of the poll was that the W A Boesak would be the name of the school. Our school principal then changed the name. Some of these ballot papers were destroyed and some of our teachers who were involved in trying to find out more information about these irregularities. Now the Reverend Andrew Julies had handed over some money to the school because it was the government's money irrespective of whether his name would be used or not but we felt that W A Boesak, was Alan Boesak's father, was buried next to the school and we felt that the school should be named after but then they changed their minds and sent two names to the provincial education department. They sent Andrew Julies and Vaal, somebody Vaal, that was another name that was suggested and the W A Boesak name was set aside. We immediately then took action. We made out posters and placards to show our resistance to the school principal and the school committee who had done this to us and the next day when we got to school the name Andrew Julies was printed on the board in front and we then removed this board because we were angry, because we knew we had won the vote and we were angry because they were doing this in a very undemocratic way. There had been a lot of bungling so we were angry. On the 13th February I was at home. The security branch of the South African Police started making enquiries about who had been involved in this whole matter. Bernard Beukes and myself and Henry van Wyk. Well the security police were looking for us and some nights we had to go and sleep in the cemetery so we could escape their clutches. Now at that stage they were reducing the number of teachers, that was part of the strategy to try and prove that the teachers were also rioters and instigators of violence and there was a Mr van der Heever and Franklin Sonn, these people came to us for a conference and the next day we climbed over the fence and we entered the school through the back door at the hall and we approached Mr Rudolph van der Heever from behind and told him that the security police was looking for us. Mr van der Heever then went to the principal's office and made a call to the security branch of the police. Now the vehicles were outside looking for us and Mr Rudolph van der Heever then, he was on his way in a yellow Cressida to say that he had phoned the security branch headquarters in Upington to tell them that they must leave us alone. On the 13th February, we were at home and the police arrived Ambrosius took them into the house and there were 10 or 12 of them and they searched the entire house and they searched everywhere, turned everything upside down. I don't know what they were looking for but maybe they thought I would be stupid enough to leave names of teachers lying around and my name and all bits of evidence. Now we didn't operate in that way. We were very cautious, we hid these bits of evidence and names. Now Ambrosius took them through the house but I can't believe that it, that they could search a house in such a short space of time. They looked at my books and threw them around and then one policeman outside the house started shooting with this pump action shotgun and I said well what's going on. Some of the teachers started singing freedom songs and supported us because we were sitting under the tree and I gained a bit of courage and I stood up. My uncle was sitting next to me and one of the policemen then hit me on my ear with the rifle butt and blood started flowing and they kept on hitting me and I thought why is he assaulting this person so unnecessarily because the man's asking them what are they looking for? Not long after that the man started shooting in the street and he walked around the corner and continued shooting and I thought this man is going crazy. He is snapping as a result of the tension and he then threw smoke bombs and they jumped into the combi and raced away. As a result of the shooting, people were killed, is that right? --- Yes. Yes a boy, Michael Julius and Rosaleen Cloete, they were killed. They were shot dead.
And other people were injured? --- Yes quite a lot of people were injured and some are still walking around with bullets in their bodies.
Now the problem actually arose as a result of the naming of the school and the school principal, it seems to me, his approach, his attitude was a problem because he didn't want to accept the wishes of the majority as far as the name of the school was concerned. --- Yes.
And is it correct to say that there were political overtones connected with this name? The name approved by the majority of parents or was the WA Boesak name, is that correct? --- Yes.
And that is the father, deceased father of Alan Boesak? --- Yes that is correct.
And the other name put forward which was favoured by the school principal, was the Reverend Andrew Julies. --- That's correct.
And the reverend was part of the tricamerol parliament. --- Yes he was a representative of the Labour Party in the tricamerol parliament and the school committee's representatives were all members of the Labour Party and it felt to me as if there was underhand bungling here, so that, we weren't too sure what exactly was happening and suddenly they wanted to change the name and they wouldn't accept the majority vote. And to try and please the people they made it Kakamas High again. They changed the name.
So it was as a result of your involvement in this whole name issue, school name issue, that focused the security police's attention on yourself and that is why they started pursuing you and chasing you? --- Yes.
Now on this particular day when the police arrived at your home, they seemed to concentrate their search around your room. The rest of the house was just given a very, a cursory search? --- Yes the house had 12 rooms so it is impossible to search a house in such a short space of time. They didn't even search in the ceiling.
So they made a very thorough search of your room? --- Yes.
Whilst the police were busy at your house, what took place outside? What were the people doing? --- They sang freedom songs and they were toyi-toiing to show the South African Police that they were stupid.
So what actually happened is that there was a group of people who had gathered at the house and the crowd demonstrated that they were dissatisfied with the police's conduct, and they started toyi-toiing and singing freedom songs. --- Yes.
Now what did the police say, what was their explanation, what were they actually looking for at the house? --- They didn't say anything, they didn't even show us a warrant. They just burst into the house and just took Ambrose to the front door and then they entered the house with Ambrose.
And they just started searching the house? --- Yes.
Now the police that you refer to, were they from Kakamas? --- No, these were members of the Upington police. I can't really say because some of them were in camouflage uniform and, or plain clothes, I can't actually say where they were from.
But most of them were from Upington. --- Yes.
The policeman who started shooting, was it only the one policeman? --- Yes.
Do you know that policeman? --- I can't remember so far back but if I see him I will know it's him. I will be able to identify him.
You say he had one of these pump-action shotguns? --- That is right.
Did the crowd do anything other than toyi-toiing and singing freedom songs, was there stoning, stone throwing or other forms of violence? --- No.
Did anybody constitute a threat to this policeman who had started shooting? --- No.
Was there any reason for him to start shooting? --- No, I think he just panicked.
In what sort of condition was this policeman? --- When we arrived at the police station for the blood analysis they refused. It was impossible for us to see whether they were actually under the influence of liquor. They didn't react to our requests that they be tested for alcohol content.
So you said that they should test the policemen's blood. Why, why did you ask for that? --- Because some of them smelled of alcohol.
Now you are referring to the policeman busy searching the house? --- Yes.
And the one who started shooting? --- Well the moment he finished shooting he got back into the Kombi and what I found very strange is that in front of our house was a church and he walked around the church and there was no threat, there was no reason for him to walk down there and he just started shooting at people sitting on their stoeps and children just walking down the road. He just shot at them.
Was there a court case after this incident? --- Yes sir.
What happened? --- There were 29 or 30 of us and we went to Kimberley. I was not called. Most of the people weren't called. I think they called one or two people during the court proceedings. It was held in Kimberley, the court case.
Was it the magistrate's court or the supreme court? --- I don't know.
The policeman who started shooting, was he the accused person in that case? --- Yes.
What happened to him? --- He was acquitted.
Was that the only court case relating to this incident as far as you know? --- Yes.
Were any members of the riot police present during the searching of the house? --- Some of them were wearing sort of greyish uniforms.
Thank you very much Andre.
CHAIRPERSON: ... that you and your colleagues were concerned that the views of the community should be taken seriously and we hope that this is something you would want to continue even now, now that we have a democratic dispensation because sometimes having got there we begin to forget why we got there. We struggled in order for our people to know that they are important, they matter, their views are taken seriously. We would want to look again at court records to find out what actually did take place because often it appears as if there was a kind of collusion between the security forces and our courts and that is why often there seems to have been a miscarriage of justice it appears. We would like to be able to look at that and this is one of the reasons why we are asking that the legal profession should come and make a submission to the Commission that the medical profession, the judiciary, so that we can try and get a clear picture whether people in these various institutions who used their position to uphold an unjust system, did they do things which would encourage the violation of people's rights and many in the underprivileged, the oppressed sections would say that there was no question at all that apartheid permeated our entire society and affected all sorts of things and we need to be able to give details of this inter-connectedness but we are glad you were there in the dark days and now we are in the light and you have helped with your colleagues to help us to come into the light and we must preserve that light and not allow it to be put out because nowadays we sometimes see people who have forgotten what it cost us to put on the light that has destroyed the darkness and they treat the light as if it was something cheap and we need to remember that the price that has been paid is a very, very heavy price. Thank you.
