CASE NO: CT/04205/UPI
VICTIMS: DIKKIE MXOLISI JOHANNES JACOBS
BERNARD BONAKELE JACOBS
NATURE OF VIOLENCE: GRANDSONS DETAINED
DEATH IN PRISON
TESTIMONY FROM: JOHANNES JACOBS
MR POTGIETER: Good afternoon Mr Jacobs. Do you hear me, do you hear the translation?
MR JACOBS: Yes I can understand perfectly.
MR POTGIETER: I am going to ask you to stand to take the oath.
JOHANNES JACOBS Duly sworn states
MR POTGIETER: Thank you. Doctor Wendy Orr will help you giving your evidence and I hand to her.
DR ORR: Thank you Chairperson. Mr Jacobs thank you very much for coming here today. Who are the people with you? --- These are my two daughters.
Thank you and thank you to your two daughters for coming here to support you today. You are going to tell us about your grandson is that correct? --- Ja.
Dikkie Jacobs --- Yes it is.
Your grandson died in 1985 and you are going to tell us about the incidents leading up to his death but first can you tell us how old was he, was he at school, was he a member of any organisation? --- First of all, there is a mistake with the date. Maybe I made the mistake. The date was the 14th 1986. First of all I want to tell you about our first tragedy, about his elder brother. As he gave evidence on the 13th November his grandmother was there. She fell on top of him and was injured, that was the first calamity that befell us.
[Indistinct] ... at that meeting on the 13th November 1985 that we have speaking about today? --- Yes, yes ma'am it was at the meeting, the very same meeting. Now talking about Dikkie, on the 14th in 1986 the police came, Dikkie was sleeping together with Bennie. The mother was also sleeping. The police came and woke them up. They asked my wife, my wife asked what was going on. The police said they had come to fetch my children because the 16th June was approaching, therefore they want to look after the school children so that no danger befalls them. So we thought, you know, this is a good thing. We then allowed them to take our children. After the 16th passed, our children did not come back. We went to look for our children. It was on a Sunday, I do not remember the date. They told us that we cannot see our children. After that, we went back yet again. The answer was they were not there. We were then told that he is in Groblershoop. We took the car and we went to Groblershoop. We went there with our luggage. When we got there we were told that we cannot see our child. They were given orders for us not to see him. We left clothing for the boy. We did not say much because we were scared they were going to imprison us. We went back, having spent so much money yet we did not see him. When we went again we were told that he is present, he is there but we were not able to see them. After that, it was clear that our son was to go back to school to write exams. He then tried to liaise with his aunt who is sitting on my left. I would like the lady here to give evidence. I wonder if it is possible.
We will ask her to give evidence when you are finished because we will have to swear her in first. So you finish telling your part of the story and then we will let her talk. --- Yes, thank you. As time elapsed, on a certain date that I cannot remember, we got a report that Dikkie has passed away in prison and they brought his clothes to us. They told us that he had committed suicide. We got up and then next morning we went to the police station. When we got to the camp he was lying on a cement floor. It was not where he had said, it was not where the police had said he had hung himself. It was on a cement floor a distance from there. We went closer to the corpse. When we got to the corpse we looked at it, we saw no evidence that he had hung himself. The T-shirt that they said he had used to hang himself was next to him. We look at his neck time and time again and there was just no evidence that he had hung himself. We looked at his stomach to see if it had not swollen up, it was flat. His mouth was closed, his lips pursed together like someone who had just died. When we went back they told us that he had, the corpse had to be taken to Bloemfontein for a post-mortem. They told me that I would go with them. When we went back to town we tried to find a lawyer. We got a lawyer who was staying at the Upington hotel at the time. We talked to the lawyer, he said he would represent us. I have forgotten the lawyer's surname. From there, we went to the police camp with the lawyer. The lawyer then asked if they know Dikkie Jacobs. The men that were there said yes. They asked what had happened, they said he had hung himself. The lawyer then asked that they show the lawyer and the grandparents the exact place where Dikkie had hung himself. They said they would not be able to do that, they were given orders not to do so. The lawyer said, as a lawyer it is his prerogative to see where Dikkie had hung himself. They said they cannot go beyond the orders that had been given to them. The case then began. When the corpse was taken to Bloemfontein they told me that I could not go with after all. Only the police would go. They then went and came back. When the case began, as the case went on, it was clear that the lawyer's representation was absolutely stunted because he did not see the place where Dikkie had hung himself. This was a female lawyer from Cape Town. This lawyer insisted that he could not continue the case without having seen the place where Dikkie had hung himself. They then took the lawyer by himself, saying that we as grandparents could not go. They took him allegedly to the place where Dikkie had hung himself. After they had taken him, the case was postponed. This lawyer never, did not come back. Another lawyer took the case. Maybe you know this lawyer. This second lawyer also went to see the place where Dikkie was hung. This lawyer said the people who were supposed to be prison warders are the people who murdered Dikkie. The case was postponed yet again. When this lawyer went to Windhoek for another case and he was killed there and that was the end of the case.
[Indistinct] ... Anton Lubowsky? --- I do not remember the surname well but I think that is the name. The lady here on my left will tell you.
Before we hear from your daughter I just want to ask you a few questions about Dikkie. How old was he when he died? --- He was 17 years of age.
[Indistinct] ... school, do you know what standard he was in? --- He went to school in a certain village, in standard 10. He was in standard 10 in Dimbaza.
Do you know if he was a member of any student organisation or any particular group? --- I do not know about his place of schooling but back home where he used to come for holidays, he was not a member of any organisation. When the police said they came to protect him from June 16th, we thought that it is a good plan because he was a peaceful child from our perspective.
[Indistinct] ... Chairperson to administer the oath to your daughter so that she can tell us any additional information.
MR POTGIETER: Miss Jacobs, can you give us your full names please.
MATHILDA NONSAMI JACOBS Duly sworn states
MR POTGIETER: Thank you, you may be seated.
DR ORR: Mathilda can you give us any additional information you have about Dikkie and the time he was in jail? --- During the time that Dikkie was in prison, he wrote me a letter to say that I must come and visit him in prison and he told me that he applied to the Head of the prison to be able to write his examinations. He was very studious and he wanted to study further and he felt that he should become the breadwinner in the family and he told me that he had made application to go to Durban University and that should the forms arrive at home, I should bring it to prison so that he could find out whether he had been admitted to Durban University. When the application forms came, I took it to him and he pointed out to me that he had been admitted to go to the university. He also told me that his applications would arrive at home or his school exam timetable would arrive at home and that as soon as it did I should bring it to the prison. He said that if the Captain at the prison, if he would give him permission to write examinations then I should go to the Security Police and ask for permission but I must have the exam timetable. When the timetable arrived I went and I took it to him and they said that he must start writing examinations in Xhosa on Friday the 24th. I was then told to take it to the Security Police, which I did. At the Security Police they told me that there was a possibility that he could be given permission to write his exams but that I just had to wait awhile. At about 10 to 4, one of the detectives of the Security Branch, Mr Jantjies, came to me and asked me for the timetable. I gave it to him and he then went up the steps, the stairs there and told me to follow him. When we arrived at the top of the stairs he told me that I could go and he said that he didn't think we would see him again. When I asked him what he meant, he said, no I don't think you are ever going to see Dikkie Jacobs again so you can just go. How are you going to take him to school because it is Tuesday today and he has to write exams on Friday. So I told him that I was responsible for that and I would make plans to get him to school. He then asked whether he couldn't write the exams in Upington and I said no, he had to go and write it in Dimbaza at the school there. He then said okay but I do not think you will see him ever again. You can go home now. I left the prison without really knowing when Dikkie would be released. I thought maybe it will be that day or the day after. That same evening we were already asleep, Oupa Links arrived at our house, he was accompanied by a white policeman. They knocked on the door quite loudly and I went to my mother's room and said to her, there is some people knocking very wildly on the door and we let them in. The policemen just threw things down on the couch and said, Ouma your child is dead. That was the white policeman. My mother then asked, which child and they said Dikkie Jacobs is dead. Oupa Links then said your child is dead, Dikkie Jacobs, and they turned around and left. My mother called after them but they just walked away and then my parents went to the prison on the next day and that is what I wanted to add.
Mathilda I just - ask for your opinion on something. It seems as if Dikkie was a young man who had plans for his future, he was about to write his matric exams, he was going to university. Did he strike you as someone who would have committed suicide? --- I do not know but he was a very quiet boy. He never spoke much. He loved studying, he loved his books. He had a bookcase at home and he was always studying at home even when his friends came to visit, they would sit together and study.
MR POTGIETER: Can I just enquire from you, the lady next to you, I think she has indicated she also wants to add something. Can you just remind us who she is.
MR JACOBS: It is my first-born daughter.
MR POTGIETER: [Indistinct] ... testimony?
MR JACOBS: Yes, yes, she would like to add something.
MR POTGIETER: I am just going to ask the briefer to take that microphone and put it in front of the other Ms Jacobs. Can you give us your full names please.
JOSEPHINE LULA MAPLESI Duly sworn states
MR POTGIETER: Thank you.
DR ORR: Josephine, would you like to take this opportunity to give us any additional information which you may have? --- What I would like to add, is that when we went to the prison to identify the corpse, there is something that my father forgot to mention. It was my mother, father and myself who went to the prison to go and identify the corpse. When we arrived there we saw a Mr Basson. We saw him there. He was a white man and his surname was Basson and he then took us to the place where the body was. When we arrived there, we wanted to actually see the body but he would not allow us to do that. He just wanted to tell us that he had died but we wanted to see the deceased's body because they had told us he had hanged himself but we knew that it was our right to see the body because they had told us that he had hanged himself. Basson refused that we see him. I asked him why he was refusing us permission to see the body and he kept saying, you cannot enter to see the body. I told him that we actually wanted to see the body so that we could find out for ourselves how he had hanged himself. Now as far as I know, that child was a child that I had brought up myself, he was a quiet, good child. I carried him around on my back, I could not believe that he had killed himself and that is why I wanted to go and see for myself what the truth of the matter was. We wanted to go and see whether there were any marks indicating that he had hanged himself because I knew that if a person hangs himself then there would be marks around the neck. So we wanted to go and ascertain for ourselves whether there were these marks around his neck. The attorney then arrived and told this Basson that he should allow us to go and see the body. My mother could not go and see the body because she was too weak. She then went back and waited in the little reception room but Basson would not allow me to enter. He said I was too old, too talkative. He then allowed my father to go in. The attorney went in followed by my father and when I wanted to go in, Basson pushed me back and closed the door in my face. He said, no I have far too much to say. I then went back and I stood at the window, this little window and the corpse was very close to the window, lying on a trolley. When I wanted to look at the corpse, I could see a red spot on the neck and I was looking at this red spot on the body, on the neck and I said to myself, yes that is why you won't allow me to go in and look, he didn't hang himself, there is just a red mark on his neck and it is almost as if he heard me because he then pulled the trolley back so that I could not see the corpse and then I could not see anything. When my father came out of the room, I asked him what he had seen. My father then said, no he only saw a red mark on his neck. That is what I wanted to add because my father forgot to say that.
[Indistinct] ... further questions and I will hand back to the Chair.
MR POTGIETER: Thank you to both of you. Mr Jacobs, thank you very much. It is a very painful situation, a very painful thing to lose a son and a brother. As you said, you raised him and you lost him. He died under very strange circumstances and there was no satisfactory explanation for his death. Since we first heard of this case we handed it over to our investigating team to see whether they could obtain any further information about the matter. We have taken note of the fact that the Court told the attorney which you had that the documents relating to the inquest were no longer in existence. Our investigation team went to the police officers and ... end of Tape 18, side B ... that was unsuccessful. Our investigative team were told by the police that all the documents relating to the period between 1985 to 1993 dealing with the unrest situation and in which public violence cases were involved, all these political matters, that the records relating to all these cases between 85 and 93 were no longer available. That is according to a note given to us by the investigation team and an order was given by the Minister's office that the documents not be destroyed, so unfortunately at this stage we have not had the opportunity to look at the records and the documents to obtain some kind of clarity as to what happened but we are investigating the matter further and if we make any progress we will let you know. Thank you very much for your testimony. The case is now on record with us and we are giving it our due attention. Thank you very much.
