STRANGER JABULANI MBHALATI: (sworn states)
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chairperson.
EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI: Mr Mbhalati, is it correct that you are a co-applicant in this matter?
CHAIRPERSON: There are matters, be specific. We heard from Mr Ngobeni three incidents and now you say in this matter, is he applying for one?
MR KOOPEDI: I do not know Chairperson if it is appropriate for me at this stage to argue that the incidents are argued in one matter, but I believe that that is perhaps an academic question and I will rephrase, but I would submit that this is one matter that comprises of a number of incidents.
Mr Mbhalati, is it correct that you are a co-applicant in the incidents that are before this Honourable Committee at this moment?
MR KOOPEDI: Now I am showing a document to you, Chairperson page fifteen of the bundle of documents. Is that your application form?
MR MBHALATI: It's my application.
MR KOOPEDI: Now on page twenty of the same bundle of documents, there is a signature at the bottom, is that your signature?
MR KOOPEDI: Now would you proceed to read your statement to the Committee, which shall be your evidence?
"I joined the ANC in 1990 at Nkuakua and I became a member of an underground MK unit which was commanded by John Ngobeni. I received military training from my Commander inside the country. I confirm that I belonged to one of these units and was involved in the planning and the attack on Shingange which occurred on the 15th during 1990 and the one on the South African Defence Force personnel at Rita which occurred on the 16th June 1990."
MR KOOPEDI: Now you've heard the evidence of Mr Ngobeni and where he mentions you as having been present. Do you confirm that?
MR KOOPEDI: Now looking at your evidence that you've just given, Mr Ngobeni's evidence, do you say that you have complied with the requirement of full disclosure of the relevant facts and that you would have told everything that you know about these incidents?
MR KOOPEDI: Did you receive any personal gain for having involved yourself in these incidents?
MR KOOPEDI: Without really explaining, I would need a short answer. Do you say that these actions had a political motive?
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you. Chairperson, that is the evidence from Mr Mbhalati.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR KOOPEDI
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Koopedi. Ms Vilakazi.
MS VILAKAZI: I have a few questions Chairperson.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS VILAKAZI: Mr Mbhalati, in your evidence you have said that you were involved in the planning of the attack on Shingange. Can you give full details of your involvement in the whole Shingange affair?
CHAIRPERSON: The question is too wide.
MS VILAKAZI: Perhaps I could divide it into two questions. My first question would be, were you involved in the planning as well as the execution of the plan or were you involved in the planning only?
MR MBHALATI: I would say I was involved in both.
MS VILAKAZI: Were you present when Mr Shingange was killed?
MS VILAKAZI: And what was your role in that regard?
MR MBHALATI: I accompanied Sililo. At that time I happened to confirm to Sililo that Shingange was the person whom we were looking after and one other thing is that I also carried the bag which contained an AK47 which Sililo used to fire at Shingange.
MS VILAKAZI: When Sililo shot at - do you confirm that it is Sililo who shot at Shingange?
MS VILAKAZI: And where were you at that particular time?
MR MBHALATI: I was somewhere next to the point whereby the vehicle which was driven by Shingange left.
MS VILAKAZI: Does that mean that you were not on the same spot with Sililo?
MR MBHALATI: I was at the same spot with Sililo.
MS VILAKAZI: Did you see that there were some other persons in the vehicle, besides Shingange?
MR MBHALATI: Yes, I've seen that.
MS VILAKAZI: Did you know Shingange personally?
MS VILAKAZI: And were you able to identify him in the vehicle?
MS VILAKAZI: And regarding the planning, what was the plan? How were you going to execute the - how was Shingange to be killed?
MR MBHALATI: In as far as I remember, it has never been mentioned how and when.
MS VILAKAZI: But then it happened that you went to a place where Shingange was. Was it just a coincidence that you happened to be at that place and Shingange was there, or was it part of your plan?
MR MBHALATI: It was part of the plan.
MS VILAKAZI: So it means you planned to execute him?
MS VILAKAZI: And you knew that he was going to be there?
MS VILAKAZI: And how did you intend killing him, knowing that he was going to be there at the place where there were going to be other people?
MR MBHALATI: I cannot exactly explain or answer that question, but I can only explain how it did actually take place.
MS VILAKAZI: Are you - I just want to understand you clearly, are you saying that you just wanted to kill Shingange and you did not plan as to how he is going to be killed. Is that what you are saying?
MR MBHALATI: Not necessarily that. Finally my understanding was that for in case we happen to be in contact with Shingange an execution should take place of the mission.
MS VILAKAZI: And what about the fact that there was a possibility of other people being there? Was that particular fact addressed in part of your planning?
MR MBHALATI: It was actually addressed that the only target was only Shingange, not any other person by that time.
MS VILAKAZI: So what were you planning to do if Shingange was not alone?
MR MBHALATI: I don't exactly know what would actually happen, because by that time I wasn't the person who was supposed to pull the trigger. Maybe if the person who was supposed to pull the trigger should be in a better position to answer that question.
MS VILAKAZI: Going to the incident at Rita, what was your involvement in that? How were you involved in the Rita incident, the attack of the SADF in Rita?
MR MBHALATI: Basically as my co-applicant had explained that the attack was not necessarily aimed at the SADF, it was aimed at eliminating George Rasebotse, so we happened to use one Chris who was basically in the know of the vehicle and the moment in which Rasebotse is frequenting the place where we were positioned in order to eliminate him.
MS VILAKAZI: How many were you?
MS VILAKAZI: Who else was there? Sililo, Ngobeni and the other Sililo.
MS VILAKAZI: And the other one was obviously the first applicant?
MR MBHALATI: It was myself, Ngobeni, Sililo and the other Sililo.
MS VILAKAZI: Okay. I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VILAKAZI
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Vilakazi. Ms Coleridge.
MS COLERIDGE: Thank you Chairperson, just one question.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MS COLERIDGE: You said you joined the ANC in 1990, which month in 1990 did you join the ANC?
MR MBHALATI: I can't recall which month.
MS COLERIDGE: Was it before this incident or after these incidents?
MS COLERIDGE: Then just on that same page Chairperson, I just want to rectify. On the second line from the bottom it states the 16th of June, but the Shingange matter happened on the 15th, just to change that. Thank you Chairperson, I have no further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS COLERIDGE
CHAIRPERSON: Obviously no re-examination.
MR KOOPEDI: Nothing in re-exam thanks Chairperson.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI
ADV BOSMAN: Just one question. I don't know whether I've missed something somewhere. Were you ever arrested and convicted of your participation in these two incidents?
MR MBHALATI: I was once arrested, released on bail.
ADV BOSMAN: And was this in connection with these incidents?
ADV BOSMAN: And now you're also applying for amnesty in regard to the - no, did you comply with your bail conditions, or did you skip the bail?
ADV BOSMAN: Oh you complied. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Adv Bosman. Now in respect of this, your arrest, were you advised about the charges prepared against you?
MR MBHALATI: Mr Chairman, I don't get your question correct.
CHAIRPERSON: Did they tell you what you are going to be charged with?
MR MBHALATI: Yes, they explained.
CHAIRPERSON: What were you going to be charged with?
MR MBHALATI: Yes, they explained.
CHAIRPERSON: What were you going to be charged with?
MR MBHALATI: If I remember well, one was the charge of murder, possession of firearm and ammunition.
CHAIRPERSON: Now what happened to the trial because you just said to my colleague here you were released on bail. What happened to the trial? Was it not proceeded with?
MR MBHALATI: The trial didn't take off since the condition of us being given bail, it was during the process of the negotiations between the ANC and the Government by then and there were arrangements whereby the trial couldn't be carried out.
MR MBHALATI: Ja. I mean since I was out on bail, it was later - they later informed us that the trial can no longer be carried out.
CHAIRPERSON: Were reasons furnished why it couldn't be carried out?
MR MBHALATI: At one stage, if I remember well, there was a letter which I received from the Department of Justice, which was something to do with indemnifying myself in all the charges.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Mbhalati. Again Mr Koopedi, nothing arises?
MR KOOPEDI: Nothing arises Chairperson and that will be the application. We close this application.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR KOOPEDI
CHAIRPERSON: Ms Vilakazi, are you calling any witnesses?
MS VILAKAZI: I'll be calling two witnesses, the widow of the late Shingange and Lily Nthembo Shingange.
CHAIRPERSON: You may proceed to do so.
MS VILAKAZI: My first witness will be Nyembezi Florence Shingange.
MR KOOPEDI: May I ask a question and I believe this is purely for my own clarification and perhaps one should start by saying this is not asked because of insensitivity. I gathered at the beginning of this hearing that the application is not opposed and I am trying to understand and like I said in my mind, why is there any other evidence led, which is not led by the applicant? I do not know if I am at liberty to ask this question, Chairperson and I will put myself in your hands because the statement I have seen, looks and sounds to me like it belongs to the HRV Committee. Thank you Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: At the beginning she said she was going to call witnesses to express their feelings, hence they are not sworn in, they are merely expressing their feelings.
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chairperson, I now understand.
MS VILAKAZI: Honourable Chairperson I'm in possession of an affidavit that was filed by, that was prepared by the witness Nyembezi Florence Shingange. I just wanted to establish if the copies have been served on the ...
CHAIRPERSON: I've just become aware of a document given to me headed Affidavit.
MS VILAKAZI: May I indicate that the evidence which is to be given by the two witnesses is put in to be part of the record for the witnesses to be considered for purposes of reparation.
CHAIRPERSON: Wouldn't the affidavit in that instance suffice for those purposes?
MS VILAKAZI: Yes, I was about to say to the Panel that the affidavit will be submitted as evidence and if a need arises for, if the Panel is of the opinion that there are aspects that need to be clarified, then the witness will be available for clarification purposes.
CHAIRPERSON: I think this affidavit is drafted in such a manner that no questions arise out of it. Marked as Exhibit what?
MS COLERIDGE: D, Chairperson, D.
CHAIRPERSON: To me, speaking for myself, a quick reading gives me all what happened to her husband and what subsequently obtained in the community in respect of her, by being ostracised, that she wants to further her studies, that the reparations should consider such an instance and as well as the children who are now looked after by her and the pension that emanates from the State, barely meets her needs. I think that comes out very clear. I don't know if there is any other thing you want to clarify.
MS VILAKAZI: Beyond the affidavit there would be no further clarification, so the affidavit will then constitute the submission on the part of the witness. Thank you Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: It would form part of our evidence in the documents as it has already been marked D.
MS VILAKAZI: The other witness is Lily Mthembo Shingange. For the record, let me indicate that the witness is a sister to the deceased and she was with the deceased in the vehicle that was ambushed. There is a sworn statement which the witness has made to the press on page forty of the bundle, page forty to forty-one of the bundle. Now the affidavit as it stands, relates the incident itself, as to how the attack occurred. The nature of the injuries that were sustained by the witness are not elaborated on in the affidavit and the effects, the emotional effects and other effects that the incident had on the witness, were also - are not also covered in the affidavit. I would submit that the affidavit which is contained on pages 40 to 41, be taken as part of the evidence and that the witness be led only with regard to the effect of the incident on herself and on her family.
CHAIRPERSON: Ja, everything in this bundle forms part of evidence, that's why we went through that statement when we were furnished with the bundle, but you may however just clarify certain aspects like for instance the injuries you have just spoken about.
MS VILAKAZI: Honourable Chairperson seeing that the evidence relating to the injuries is not part of the affidavit, just a procedural questions, should that not be under oath?
CHAIRPERSON: It's just amplification of this affidavit, Madam.
MS VILAKAZI: Thank you Chairperson.
LILY NTHEMBO SHINGANGE: (states)
EXAMINATION BY MS VILAKAZI: Can you just confirm Ma'am that you are Lily NthembO Shingange?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, that's true.
MS VILAKAZI: And that the papers that I am showing to you are the statements that you made.
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, that's correct.
MS VILAKAZI: Now can you just tell to me, the Panel is already aware of what happened on that particular day. Can you just explain to the Panel what injuries did you sustain in that attack?
MS SHINGANGE: It was on the 16th of June in 1990. My brother came to my place and requested me to accompany him to the Memorial Service. We went there. When we arrived at my sister's place where our cousin passed away...(intervention)
MS VILAKAZI: Can I just lead the witness? The hearing has already been informed of what actually happened. Can you just take us from when after the car was attacked? What happened to you and the effect on your life afterwards.
CHAIRPERSON: We want to know what happened to your body.
INTERPRETER: The mike is not on.
MS SHINGANGE: When we went to the car after walking some few metres and then we heard some shots. I was in the middle. Between myself and my brother there were two bullets which passed. He was struck by the third bullet. I was shot in the thigh. After that shot the car went off the road and inside another yard. Two your boys came to that car. They dragged me out of the car. They took me to the funeral. I was crying by then, I was calling my mother to come and see us before I die. After that I don't know what happened, I can't remember. When I woke up I was in hospital. What happened after the shooting I can't remember, but what was difficult for me is that when I went to the toilet it was difficult for me, when I wanted to pass out it was difficult. They discharged me on the 29th. They gave me crutches. I used them for six months.
MS VILAKAZI: So can you just explain the nature of the injuries you sustained?
MS SHINGANGE: I was shot on the hip.
MS VILAKAZI: Was that the only injury?
MS SHINGANGE: And even my leg. Even now I can feel the pain.
MS VILAKAZI: Was your leg affected by the incident, by the injuries?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, that's correct.
MS VILAKAZI: Can you still walk on that knee?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, sometimes it is difficult for me to walk.
MS VILAKAZI: So you have not recovered fully from those injuries?
MS SHINGANGE: Even now, I can't sit for a very long time, I have to shift position so that it doesn't affect my leg because it was an open wound.
MS VILAKAZI: At the time of the incident, were you employed?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, I was working for myself. I was working, I was selling something so that I can maintain myself.
MS VILAKAZI: Are you still able to go on selling?
MS SHINGANGE: No, I'm no longer selling.
MS VILAKAZI: Do you have children?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, I've got two children.
MS VILAKAZI: Are those children at school?
MS SHINGANGE: No, they are not at school because I can't work for myself.
MS VILAKAZI: Can you say that if it was not for the injuries that you have sustained, you would be able to feed yourself and your children?
MS SHINGANGE: Yes, myself, if I'm well I can work for myself. Even those people who accompanied me, they knew that I work for myself if I was able to.
MS VILAKAZI: That will be all.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MS VILAKAZI
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Vilakazi. Obviously Mr Koopedi, you don't have questions to ask.
MR KOOPEDI: You're correct, Chairperson, no questions.
CHAIRPERSON: And would I assume the same with my Panel? Ms Coleridge?
MS COLERIDGE: No questions thank you Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Ms Lily Nthembo Shingange for the input you have given this Committee. In arriving at a decision we shall take what you said into account. Thank you, you are excused.
CHAIRPERSON: May I throw the ball in your court for submissions?
MR KOOPEDI: Thank you Chairperson. I have a very brief submission.
CHAIRPERSON: Before you do so, do you know the indemnity which Mr Mbhalati spoke of, what it covered?
MR KOOPEDI: No Chairperson and in fact our attempt to see on what basis was he given amnesty, we were unsuccessful. We also tried to establish whether Mr Ngobeni was granted amnesty, but we could not get that.
CHAIRPERSON: We grant amnesty.
MR KOOPEDI: Indemnity. I'm referring to indemnity, sorry, Chairperson.
MR KOOPEDI IN ARGUMENT: Thank you. Perhaps Honourable Committee Members I will start at submitting that this application revolves around incidents that occurred very late in the struggle of apartheid, if you look at the dates. My submission is that even though these operations were carried out after the release of President Mandela and other prominent political leaders, their release had nothing to do with the conduct of the armed combatants that were in the country.
It is my submission that attacks similar to these facilitated what used to be known as the Codesa negotiations. It is such
actions that enabled political opponents to come together and to agree on a cessation of hostilities and I therefore submit that when these occurred, this was during the time of the struggle against apartheid and again, Mr Chairman, Honourable Committee Members, it is my submission that the three applicants before you have complied with the requirements for the granting of amnesty.
My submission is that on the evidence that has been tendered, the applicants have fully disclosed all the relevant facts in this matter. They all did not receive any personal gain and on that aspect finally, it's my submission that all the people who were attacked and all the property which perhaps was damaged, this stemmed from a politically motivated action with resultant political objective.
It is on that basis that I will ask that the three applicants be granted amnesty. Perhaps one should also try and state on what incidents or actions that we request amnesty. The first one will be the attack on the SADF Personnel at Nkuakua stadium on the 12th of April 1990 and this will also go hand in hand with possession or the illegal possession of arms, the arms being two AK 47 rifles and twelve hand grenades, which grenades were described as F1's and RGD5's and the people asking for amnesty on this instance, will be the first and the second applicant being Mr Ngobeni and Mr Muhlava.
ADV BOSMAN: Mr Koopedi, with the attack on the SADF personnel be attempted murders of these personnel, or would it be assault, or how would you suggest that we formulate it?
MR KOOPEDI: I would leave it as an attack, but also add that any incidents that might flow from that because we do not know if people died, we do not know if property was damaged and if so, to what extent, so I would wish to leave it as an attack on them, but add a sentence that would say any delictual crime that stems from that.
ADV BOSMAN: ...(inaudible - no microphone)
MR KOOPEDI: That's right. That's right. And the second incident for which amnesty is being asked for, and this involves the first applicant Mr Ngobeni and the last applicant Mr Mbhalati, which is the attack and killing of Constable Shingange. This happened on the 15th of June 1990 and added to that, there was an illegal possession of two AK47 rifles and an unknown number of hand grenades. The applicants could not recall how many hand grenades they had here.
This attack and killing on Const Shingange also goes to cover the injuries that were occasioned on his sister, who has also just given testimony before you.
ADV BOSMAN: ...(indistinct - no microphone)
ADV BOSMAN: Sorry. The intention was to kill Const Shingange, so that was a murder and then it would either be an attempted murder or an assault on ...
MR KOOPEDI: I would not - I find great difficulty firstly in defining it as an attempted murder, simply because of the intention of the applicant as and when they did this. They had no intention to injure or to want to kill any other person who was with. My other grey area is also that one does not know if anyone else was injured, whether by a bullet or shrapnel and I would, in this instance, try and perhaps persuade you to accept that we're asking for amnesty for the attack and killing of Const Shingange, including the illegal possession of the weapons, but also to say any other crime or delict that would have flown from that attack.
ADV BOSMAN: The difficulty I have, Mr Koopedi, is that we have evidence now under oath from Lily Shingange that she was seriously injured in this attack and the Reparations Committee will have to deal with that and for us just to put that under one umbrella may create some difficulty, but perhaps that is a matter which the Committee can it's mind to.
CHAIRPERSON: No, in that respect, you heard me ask one of the applicants and specifically about Lily Nthembo, that was this not foreseeable, he said yes, but we were targeting Shingange. When I said using a heavy calibre like an AK47, that the bullet could injure somebody else and whilst, when somebody has been fired at, it cannot be termed GBH, it must be attempted murder.
MR KOOPEDI: That may indeed be so, Chairperson and perhaps I would rephrase and ask that the word attempted murder on Mr Shingange's sister, those words should be added to what I'm presently submitting. I however wish to add that there may have been people who were injured, whom we don't know of at this stage.
CHAIRPERSON: And that would cover anything flowing from that, but the two we should mention. For instance Murder, killing of Shingange, attempted murder, unlawful possession of firearms, unlawful possession of an unknown quantity of hand grenades.
MR KOOPEDI: Some property was damaged, also I would imagine the vehicle was damaged. I do not know if there would have been any other damage.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. You may proceed to the third incident.
MR KOOPEDI: The third incident Mr Chairman, is an incident that occurred on the 16th of June 1990 and this is the attack on the SADF personnel at Rita.
Chairperson we do not know exactly how many members of the SADF were there at that time. The attack on them should amount, as we have agreed, to an attempted murder. I am unable to say how many of these people were shot at and how many actually got injured. I would wish to add to this third leg that there was an illegal possession of two AK47's and an unknown number of hand grenades and there is another incident Chairperson, which no light really has ever come to let us see that incident, but the first applicant spoke about the incident. That is, after the attack on the SADF personnel at Rita, the first applicant Mr Ngobeni scaled a fence of a school he mentioned, Maake Technical School and he dropped a hand grenade which he could not find. Two days after losing this grenade, he looked for it, he still could not find it, but he knows that some time after and perhaps one should warn that in the bundle of documents you will not find anything relating to this, but sometime after this incident when he went to the area, the area was cordoned off, because there was a civilian who had found a bomb, this is what people said and this bomb had exploded in this person's hand. We believe that this is the hand grenade, Chairperson and we are therefore asking for amnesty for having negligently, if one can put it so, lost the hand grenade and that a person was injured or even killed.
MS COLERIDGE: Chairperson, if I can just be of assistance here, the applicant does mention this incident on page three, that's on his original amnesty application form, page three of the bundle, he actually does mention it.
ADV BOSMAN: Was it ever investigated, Ms Coleridge? That is the difficulty which I think we may have, whether it was investigated whether the victim's name was traced and whether the relatives of the victim were given notice.
MS COLERIDGE: Well according to our records and the docket that was obtained, the police couldn't establish whether a person was injured at the time and there was no other information that could lead us to assist us in relation to that incident.
ADV BOSMAN: Do we have anything on record in regard to the investigation that was done?
MS COLERIDGE: Not specifically in the bundle, regarding investigations, no.
MR KOOPEDI: On page three, 9(c)(ii), just below Constable Shingange, unknown victim, employee of Hillary Road Construction Company. Wouldn't that have assisted the Investigative Unit?
MS COLERIDGE: Possibly Chairperson, but as I said, we haven't received any information regarding that in terms of the investigation.
ADV BOSMAN: The question that remains is, was a proper investigation done and if you have nothing on record, it might present us with some difficulties.
CHAIRPERSON: Because when you go further down, 9(c)(iv), unknown victim - Hillary and residents of Rita and Thikiline villages. Is that not sufficient for our Investigative Unit?
MS COLERIDGE: Chairperson I will have to - I will take this further and I will definitely get back to you regarding this matter.
CHAIRPERSON: Because we have herd evidence of how it occurred, but we are really concerned about the victims.
CHAIRPERSON: ...(indistinct - no microphone)
MS COLERIDGE: No definitely Chairperson, obviously the Commission takes that very seriously, in a serious light, the victims rights and I will definitely pursue this investigation.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you for your assistance Ms Coleridge. You may proceed Mr Koopedi.
MR KOOPEDI: Chairperson, Honourable Committee Members, that was the end of my submission. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Mr Koopedi. Ms Vilakazi.
MS VILAKAZI IN ARGUMENT: Thank you Honourable Chairperson. With regard to the second incident, being the killing of Const Shingange on the 15th of June 1990, as indicated earlier, the application is not opposed and whether or not the applicants have complied with the requirements, the submissions of the Counsel for the applicants is not contested. With regard to the widow of Const Shingange, the affidavit that
she has submitted to this hearing, outlines the difficulties that she went through after the death of her husband. Her life has been made very difficult. She has not been able to further her studies, she wanted to become a teacher, but because of the pressure that was put on the institution where she applied, she could not be admitted to the college and this was due to the fact that she was labelled the widow of an informer. So her life has been difficult. She has not been able to find employment and having lost a father who was the breadwinner in the family, it has been difficult to raise the children and on that basis it is my submission that the death of Const Shingange is the direct cause of the hardships that the family has been going through ever since his death and I submit that in terms of Section 22 of the Act, that Florence Shingange be declared a victim for purposes of receiving reparation.
ADV BOSMAN: Are you in a position to furnish us with the names and ages of the children of the deceased? The ages Ms Vilakazi.
MS VILAKAZI: The eldest Sibongile Lordmade Shingange, she's eighteen years old and she's a student at Pretoria Technicon doing a diploma in accounting, she's in her first year. The others are a set of twins, they are boys, John and Simon, they are both aged fifteen. John is in Standard Eight and Simon is in Standard Seven.
With regard to Lily Nthembo Shingange, she was in the vehicle which was attacked when Const Shingange was killed. She sustained injuries in that particular attack. Although she was not employed at the time, she was self-employed, she was selling. Due to the injuries that she sustained during that attack, it has not been possible for her to continue selling, so she has been deprived of the ability to provide for herself and for her children. She's got two children, a nineteen year old girl, her name is Glory, she's in Standard Ten and seventeen year old, Hopie, in Standard Seven, she has put evidence to this hearing that she has not been able to work because of the injuries that she has sustained. She has not fully recovered from the injuries. She still has problems with her leg. It is my submission that her disability as it is, is a direct consequence of the attack, of the injuries that she suffered when the attack in which she and Const Shingange were took place. I submit that also in terms of Section 22, that she should be considered a victim, that she should be considered for reparation. Thank you.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Ms Vilakazi. Ms Coleridge.
MS COLERIDGE: Thank you Chairperson, I have no further submissions to add.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you. This has brought us to the conclusion of the hearings we were charged with at this centre. Firstly at this late hour to pass our condolences to Mrs Shingange and the sister. We know it has been a painful experience and as Lily Nthembo Shingange had also sustained injuries, but today at least you have come to know the reasons why your beloved one was attacked and in the process Ms Shingange received the injuries. From today, I know it's difficult, but I hope you can close this chapter in your lives that even though it would not bring back your beloved ones, but you know the precise details of what happened and this is the function of this process, that those who remained ignorant of why some of their beloved ones were taken during the conflict of the past, why it happened, this process has been and I would refer to you specifically, brought back to you. I know it's easy for me to speak from an armchair position, but that is precisely what happened, because today you can close that chapter and lead your lives.
I want to thank also people who do a very difficult job and we normally thank them last, but I want to bring them to the fore, to thank the interpreters who are holed in boxes and are doing a very difficult job. Your job is much appreciated. We thank you for assisting us in this process.
We want to thank the legal representatives for your assistance, Mr Koopedi, Ms Vilakazi and Ms Coleridge, you have been of great assistance to us. The Committee appreciates the input you have made and it is going to assist us in coming to a decision in respect of the three applicants.
Those who have come to attend these hearings, your efforts are much appreciated by this Committee and more specifically by my Panel here. We say thank you very much to have made these efforts to have come here.
To the caterers, the man who is doing a very difficult job, I wanted to come to him last, Mr Jo Japhta. People never see him in the forefront, but without him we wouldn't have had this hearing. He does the most difficult job, that's why I wanted to mention him last, that his name rings a bell throughout. Thank you Jo, but I think you are going to have problems, because I'm gaining weight with the food that you are arranging at these venues. If I can, for a while, be away from you, I think I will regain my weight.
Thank you Chairman. You know there's one thing that happens, that throughout I never lifted a plate to pour food for myself, or to dish up for myself. Thank you. You are very much appreciated. I would love to have you in my hearings.
As it is customary, we are charged by the Act to give written decisions and we shall reserve our decision and hope to give it in the near future, or the short near future, if we do have something like that. You shall be advised personally through Mr Koopedi about our decision.
Thank you very much. This brings us to the end of the hearings here for this week. We were charged to take the whole week but because of your assistance, we could only be here for two days. Thank you very much. The Committee adjourns.