CHAIRPERSON:: ...and that you sit down. I have a number of requests. First request - there are quite a large number of ear phones, but not enough for everybody. It may be that some of you don't really need an earphone because you do understand both English and Tswana. If you don't need an earphone, don't take one, and leave the earphones for the people who need translation.
An urgent request - When you leave for lunch leave the earphones on the chairs and especially when you leave this afternoon when you go home, don't take the earphones with you. We need them, leave them on the chairs, it's of no use to you. You can use it with no transistor, or no CD, it's stamped for the TRC's use only.
Another request - A number of people came to me during the tea time and said in a quiet way that their is some problem at the back of the hall. The request is if the students could just be a little bit more quiet. I am a teacher, I'm a professor at the university and I know students are students, and it's wonderful to have the young people, we really appreciate your presence but whatever you do, do it quietly please. That will make it easier on all of us.
Another thing - This is the last hearing in this part of our country, the last public hearing, but that does not mean that we are not taking more statements. We are taking statements. We need many more statements from this area. There are many people who need to come and tell their story who have not done that. We have statement takers with us today. If there are some of you who are sitting here and think "but I should also tell my story, I also want to make a statement" - you can, if you want to do it, you can go out of the hall immediately now. Sello is our communications man and he's waiting outside the door where the communications equipment is and he will show you the way to the statement takers.
Throughout the day, you can go out quietly and come in again after you have submitted your statement, but if you need to make statements, you can leave just now quietly, go to that door where Sello will be and he will help you with making statements. Are there more announcements? Those are the announcements and then it is my privilege to call the next witness, that will be Mr Mmasebotse Vinger.
Miss Mmasebotse Vinge to the fore please.
Mrs Vinger, as the earphone is being fitted, can I say to you a very warm welcome. We are very glad and privileged to have you with us. You have somebody next to you, who is that sitting next to you at the table?
CHAIRPERSON:: What is his name?
CHAIRPERSON:: We want to thank you for assisting your mother. Dr Randera will assist you in telling your story, but I'll ask firstly of Mrs Joyce Seroke to conduct the oath. Will you please stand and will just raise your hand and just say what she wants you to say.
MS MMASEBOTSE A VINGER:: (Sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON:: Thank you. Please sit down and feel relaxed and now it's your time to tell your story and Dr Randera will help you with that.
DR RANDERA:: Good afternoon. I welcome Ronnie as well. Thank you to both of you for coming. You are taking us back to Maboloka in 1993, a period when, as we've heard from so many people in other areas, the Bop government was still trying to prevent the legalisation of the ANC, were not wanting to participate in the elections, there was great unrest and upheaval in the then V. I know your son was shot on that day. He was eight years old at the time. Can you please tell us what happened?
MS VINGER:: On 13 March 1993, I was at work. When I left, my child had gone to school. When I came back from work, I met his friends and they told me that Ronnie is in the hospital.
I asked them what was the problem with him, and I was told that he was shot in the head. I put my handbag at home and went to the police station. When I met the senior official, he was called Mr (indistinct). When I asked where my child was, Mr (indistinct) told me that the children were shooting themselves, that they were playing with guns and he wasn't badly injured.
I then asked him where my child was and then he said my child was in the hospital. I believe it was about 6:30pm. I then rushed to the hospital, he was at O.D. Hospital.
When I got there my child's head was bandaged. When I looked at his hands, they were burnt. When I asked what had happened, he told me that they had shot him. And then I went back home, because they told me my child would get better. Whilst he was at home, there was no progress of healing with my child. I asked them to discharge him from O.D. Hospital and transfer him to Garankuwa Hospital. They did that.
At Garankuwa Hospital, he went to theatre and he was operated. The doctor told me that my child's head had swollen. All the stitches have (indistinct). They wanted to heal his wound, because it was swollen by then. They found something like an iron bolt inside.
They didn't want to reveal that rod to me because they said the police had taken it away and then I went to the ANC because the V couldn't help us. And then I went to the senior ANC officials who took a statement from me and thereafter, they took the statement to an ANC representative. I think it was Mr Moseneke, and then he kept his statement with me until my child was discharged from the hospital.
My child stayed for two months and two weeks at the hospital and the third week he was discharged and then I took him to the doctor. When I took him to the clinic, they said they couldn't help me with him because his wound was very bad, they couldn't treat him. Every time he complains about headaches and eye pains.
I didn't have any money to take him to the doctor and my younger brother adopted him on his medical card and that's the medical card we use to take him to the doctor. They operated his head to see what the problem was and they told me that this child is going to grow up, but he's not going to be mentally stable.
I gave Mr (indistinct) the documents I had with me but there was no follow on on that case. All they told me is that they would lodge the case and they would let me know, but that didn't happen up until today.
MS VINGER:: No I don't want to say anything.
DR RANDERA:: I just want to ask a few questions. You said earlier on that you met a gentleman after Ronnie was shot and he said the children were shooting at each other and then when you saw Ronnie in hospital, he said that they had shot him. Who was the "they"?
MS VINGER:: It was his friends who told me so. That is his friends, who saw him when he was taken to the clinic.
DR RANDERA:: Who actually shot him?
MS VINGER:: I don't know, maybe he can tell who shot him, because he's around. Because by that time I was at work.
DR RANDERA:: Sorry, I would prefer if you actually said to us, because I'm sure you have asked him, and if it's possible for you just to tell us who you think, actually, from your discussions with Ronnie.
MS VINGER:: He said that rod was picked up by (indistinct) from school and that it what he used to hit him with. They were going to complain about their leave funds.
DR RANDERA:: It wasn't the Bop soldiers?
MS VINGER:: This iron rod fell from the police van. This younger boy picked it up and hit him with it on his head.
DR RANDERA:: Sorry, I want to be clear because, you see, our mandate is to look at the political conflicts, alright? I heard that there were soldiers there and they may have actually dropped something on the ground, but who caused the injury to Ronnie?
MS VINGER:: It is this other young boy who he says is Mapela. His name is Mapela.
DR RANDERA:: Thank you very much. Can you just tell me what was actually happening in Maboloka at the time?
MS VINGER:: I'm not sure about anything because I was at work, it was the 15 March, it was about that time...(tape ends) ... because they weren't able to keep that money out because they didn't know what it was used for. This young boy of mine was from school by that time. I think maybe when they joined the road that most (indistinct) police station, that is why the time people were being dispersed.
I think he was fooling these people together with his school children. This thing fell from the police van and was picked up by this young boy.
DR RANDERA:: You said that you went to see Advocate Moseneke and some charges were laid. Were the charges laid against this young boy and his parents or were the charged laid against the Bop police?
MS VINGER:: The charge was opened against the Bop police.
DR RANDERA:: Can you just tell us about Ronnie. How - I see he is in his school uniform here today - how is he doing at school?
MS VINGER:: After he got injured on his head, he has headaches. Sometimes he complains with his eyes, and he is not performing as good as he did before the incident. Because the doctor told me that the nerves on the side on which he was shot are not working anymore. He is only working with one side of his head nerves, or brain nerves.
DR RANDERA:: What standard is he in now?
MS VINGER:: He is repeating Std 4.
DR RANDERA:: This is the first time he is repeating Std 4?
MS VINGER:: Yes, he is repeating Std 4.
DR RANDERA:: (Indistinct) same thing all the time.
MS VINGER:: Yes, he was only passing the first time that he is repeating.
DR RANDERA:: Okay, I have no further questions, I'm handing over to the chairperson.
MS SEROKE:: The boy who threw, which injured Ronnie, where is he?
MS VINGER:: He's attending school.
MS VINGER:: I'm not sure how old is he but, then he was eight years old and he was a little bit older.
MS SEROKE:: Did you go to his parents to complain about this incident?
MS VINGER:: Yes, we did went to the parents, but his mother didn't come to me and the mother is not concerned, but the person who came is the grandmother of that boy.
MS SEROKE:: I would ask that the parents of that child should come and make a statement to us so that we would be informed or know what was happening on that day. (Indistinct) the statement takers, you must ask the parents of that child to come and make a statement.
DR ALLY:: It's still not clear, and I just would appeal to the witness, to Mrs Vinger, to just try and be as clear as possible. In her statement, she says that he was shot, he was - shot, is the word, all right? - by an unknown object, that's the first part. Then later in the statement, it says that the police told her her son was injured by a "slinger", while playing with other boys.
Now a "slinger" I would imagine, is a catty, a caterpillar, that's what the statement says. But then she says in the statement, " but I later discovered that he was shot." Now I would just like Mrs Vinger to be absolutely clear. What actually happened? Firstly, was he shot? Was that established in terms of the medical examination, the medical certificate or what the doctor said? Was it a bullet wound?
MS VINGER:: When we asked at the hospital, because he was taken by the police to the hospital, and something like a round iron was removed from his head.
DR ALLY:: An iron was removed from his head? Are there any medical records? Does Mrs Vinger have any medical records?
MS VINGER:: I don't have it with me, they are with the doctors, and other s we gave to Mr Moseneke.
DR ALLY:: Now this statement, the latest statement which was made, that he was hit by another boy. Is that what you are saying - that whatever it was, was removed from his head - it was another boy? Because in your statement you say that's what the police said to you, that the police told you that the boys were playing and that it was another boy who did this to your son. But then you also say that you later discovered that he was actually shot by the police, that you, in other words, you seem to be saying to us, you didn't believe the story of the police, that you thought the police were lying to you to cover up what they had done. Now what is your actual recollection of these events? Did you believe the story that it was another boy, or do you believe the story that it was the police?
MS VINGER:: I heard that when I was at work they were unrest in the township and then I found him in this hospital, when I came back from work.
DR ALLY:: Okay, thank you very much. I think we will have to follow up on those things.
CHAIRPERSON:: Mrs Vinger, I just want to add one question, and that is about the family. Are you married?
MS VINGER:: No, I'm not married.
CHAIRPERSON:: Are there other children, or is Ronal the only child?
MS VINGER:: I have two children.
CHAIRPERSON:: Mrs Vinger, thank you for coming to us about the worst thing that can happen to a parent, when something happens to the child, and all of us who are parents, really feel with you and for you. I read in your statement that you said it was through prayer to God that you were able to cope all these years.
We do hope that the Lord will carry you through these difficult years. We have taken note of your requests and we will take it to the Truth Commission and Ronal, I do hope that the second time in Std 4 will be the last time, that next year this time you will be a pupil in Std 5.
Thank you for coming and I hope it goes well with you. Thank you.