CHAIRPERSON: Can Rose Magudulela come forward please?
Rose good afternoon. Welcome and thank you for coming today. Rose you're also taking us to 1993. It's the time that Sipho's already been talking about. Before I ask Mr Manthata who's going to be helping you tell your story can you please tell us first who's accompanying you?
MRS MAGUDULELA: The one I'm with is Theresa Malinga. Her husband was also killed with my husband on the same day.
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much Theresa for coming today as well. Can you please stand to take the oath and can Dr Russel Ally please help you?
ROSE MAGUDULELA: (sworn states)
MR MANTHATA: Rose and Theresa, welcome. Do feel at home. Rose are you working?
MRS MAGUDULELA: Yes I am working.
MR MANTHATA: What are you doing.
MRS MAGUDULELA: I am a nursing sister at the Belfast hospital.
MR MANTHATA: How many children have you got Rose?
MRS MAGUDULELA: I have three children.
MR MANTHATA: And they are all at school?
MRS MAGUDULELA: Two are at school and the other one is still young. She is only three years old.
MR MANTHATA: Otherwise how is the family? Are you still intact with your in-laws?
MRS MAGUDULELA: Yes. I have my mother-in -law with today, she is here.
MR MANTHATA: Can you please give us the story of that fateful day when your husband was shot?
MRS MAGUDULELA: It was on the 9th of June 1993. On that day I was at work. I worked here in Piet Retief hospital. I was going to knock off at seven in the evening. When I got home at seven my husband wasn't at home. He had knocked off at two pm and was working at Montybord(?). I got off the bus and went to where we were staying at Theresa's place - the one sitting next to me. I used a different route, a shorter one. When I got to the house Theresa was outside by the tap and she told me that there was somebody in the house looking for my husband and I asked Theresa where he came from. Theresa didn't know as well. We got inside the house, the two rooms that we were renting. I was curious, I wanted to know who this person was who was looking for my husband. Then I went to the big house where he was and when I got inside I saw a small boy who was short and light in complexion sitting on the sofa with a brief case. I greeted him and I asked him as to where he was coming from.
He didn't tell me but told me that he was Dhlamini. I asked where and he said at Fing(?). And I stood up, I went to the kitchen and I went back and said to Theresa, let's go back to this boy, I want to look at him properly because I don't know him. I went back to him and Theresa played a cassette on the tape and I asked him ...(indistinct) how do you know Magudulela and he said that he knew him from Inkandlha, because I knew that Magudulela was coming from KwaZulu Natal and Inkandlha is in KwaZulu Natal. I thought that he was a relative, only that I didn't know him.
When I left the big house I went back to the two-roomed house that was outside, the one we were renting. When I got to the room I sat down. On that day it was my husband's birthday.
MRS MAGUDULELA: I waited for my husband to come back home because they told me that he was going to attend to that meeting. I waited and I prepared supper and also I had bought him a birthday present, and I tried to hide it so he can be surprised. Suddenly I saw the car lights and the car parked and he got out the car and I met him immediately and told him that there was a boy in the big house waiting for him. He asked where that boy was coming from and I told him that he said he was coming from Feni, and I could tell that he didn't know anyone from Feni and he went directly to the boy in the big house and I didn't know what he said to him because I wasn't there. I didn't follow or go with him to where the boy was.
After some time as he was conversing with the boy, he came back to me in the room and said "Rose I'm coming back, I'm escorting this boy, I'm taking him half way". And I asked him where this boy came from and whether he perhaps knew him. He said that he would tell me when he got back. He took a paper out of his back pocket and read it and gave it to me. I don't remember well but what I do remember is that it had a Dhlamini surname and I don't remember the names and also what was said.
He left and I called him as he was leaving I called to him that he must not go alone with a strange boy and to ask Mpigelele to accompany him, meaning Theresa's husband for company, and they left. It was quiet and he hadn't got back until I got troubled asking why he was delaying coming back. It came into my mind that maybe they were going outside Piet Retief, but it didn't look like that. I felt that maybe I should go to bed but I wasn't too sure if I should. I was restless. After a long time I heard this big scaring knock at the bedroom window calling for Theresa and the person who was calling or saying Javo. I opened the curtain and found it was a local taxi driver and he shouted and said, Javo Javo, Mpigelele is dead but the others ran away.
At the time when he was saying Mpigelele is dead and the other one ran I told myself that the other one then they are referring to my husband, he will relate the whole story as to what happened, why he ran away. I got out the door and I called Javo. I was shouting, calling Javo. The way I was shouting I didn't expect Javo to come out of the door but out of the window. I wasn't dressed because I was expecting to go to bed. I just had a towel and I wrapped it around my waist, and I was expectant at the time. We ran with Javo.
Before we got out with Javo I asked the gentleman to help us and take us where the incident took place and the taxi driver said he had a problem with his taxi and he had a puncture and I pulled Javo by the arm and we ran. I kept falling and we continued to run towards the stadium because he had already told us that the car is at Skotipola(?) and as we were approaching we saw the car lights were on and Javo kept saying along the way that he will get the car started and take him to the hospital especially since the car is an automatic and he can drive it. When we got there we found two white policemen, one was tall and the other short. The tall one was Fourie and the short one, Pienaar.
When we got to them I didn't see my husband but I saw Mpigelele on the driver's seat and he was bleeding profusely through his mouth, and when I got closer Fourie said that I should not come any closer. I stood confused and held on strongly to Javo and thought that only Mpigelele had died, but not my husband. I tried to be strong and asked the police as to who informed them about this and they said they were informed by Dhlamini. And I asked if they meant the Dhlamini who came home and got my husband and Mpigelele. I asked where he was and they said he's around and I'll see him later.
Well I tried to follow what was happening and after some time Pienaar said to me the other man I ...(indistinct) is behind. I thought the other one who is behind is Dhlamini, let him think it's my husband at the time.
MR MANTHATA: Can I, I know it's very difficult, people become involved in the stories that are being told and I'm not asking you not to do that but can we just have some quiet at the back, it's difficult enough for people to be telling their stories and as difficult as the stories are, please let's listen as closely and as quietly as possible.
MRS MAGUDULELA: When I left Javo I noticed that it was so quiet, there was no one approaching or no life at all. I went to the back and I saw at the back that there was a jacket and lo and behold, my husband was also there, and i tried to open the door. The police refused that I should open the door and told me that he is also dead. We were there for quire some time until the police came and we got into their van and a policeman by the name of Taylor took us to Javu's sister's husband and we reported the whole matter to him as well and we went to my sister's, the family at large to inform them what had transpired.
We went back home and we were there with Javo. We went to Javo's house because I was really scared and wanted to be with Javo, until the following morning when the word spread around and our friends as well got to know what had happened.
After some time in 1994 if my memory serves me right, Mike got shot at Pongola and Ruth(?) Gamede who was a mayor at Piet Retief came to me and told me that the person who shot Mike Gamede was found and how would it be because myself and Javo saw that person who came to the house and got our husbands. How would it be if I go to Pongola and see if I can recognise the person. The date Gamede gave me, I wasn't free to go on that day because there were rumours in Thandukukhanya that it might happen that Gamede was killed by Magudelela and I was scared and not free to be with Gamede around. I even thought that he was planning to kill me as well. I was very uncomfortable and I decided that I should go to take a look at this person.
After giving birth, that was in 1994 I already had a child because I gave birth in November '93, now it was February '94, when I got to Pongola and I left my child with my mother, I didn't tell my mother where I was headed. It was my first time getting inside a court of law. I didn't know, I had no ideas what was happening in the court and I saw him, I saw using certain machines, equipment. I saw that very boy and I couldn't believe it and I said maybe he's the one in the witness stand who is the one in question. I looked around for Gamede so that I could sit next to him and I did so. As I took a thorough look at the witness stand I realised that's not the boy I saw in the past. Gamede kept asking me if he's the boy who I saw but when I turned and looked at the back I saw this boy sitting right behind me. I said to Gamede, quickly, and that was the time of the tea break and the magistrate was about to get off, and I told Gamede,...(indistinct) and I, that this is the guy sitting behind us. And when we stood up the boy came and stood right next to me and looked at me. They said I mustn't be afraid because I'm an IFP.
Gamede went to report to the police that we have located the boy and identified him. He said and confessed to me that he also planned to kill me and Javo. I thank the fact that he wasn't able to do that.
MR MANTHATA: Yes Rose it is a long sad story but please be patient and continue.
MRS MAGUDULELA: It took long before the case was conducted because the guy didn't admit that he was the one who killed but I saw some time he admitted and was arrested. He was working with another one and both of them were arrested. I don't quite remember the date but there was a Truth Commission hearing in Nelspruit and we went there - it was the 6th of May. They were the as well, the ones who were convicted and the one that I pointed at admitted that he is the one who killed Magudulela.
I don't know today where he is. He was applying for amnesty as well.
MR MANTHATA: Rose thank you for this painful recital. Theresa have you made a statement?
MRS MALINGA: Yes I did submit a statement.
CHAIRPERSON: Theresa I'm going to give you the opportunity also to talk. You have made a statement, so if you'll just stand I will swear you in.
THERESA MALINGA: (sworn states)
MR MANTHATA: Theresa I could see how painful Rose's recital has been to you. I could see you weeping as she was talking. Can you please add just what you know with regard to the death of you husband?
MRS MALINGA: First of all I would like to say thank you for this opportunity that has been afforded me. I also thank the Truth and Reconciliation Committee for the time they've spent and coming to listen to us, how we've been harassed and tortured in 1993. As Rose has explained everything it was a painful year to me. But what I'd like to pass on to the community of Thandukukhanya is that we thank them in the special way they've worked with us, because those days were difficult and scary days but they supported us through and through, and we were able to face the whole situation.
That's the first think that I would like to thank the community of Thandukukhanya for in that they were very supportive in the whole thing.
Secondly Rose has said almost everything, there's nothing much that I will add because we were together when they were killed and to the end what. What I would like highlight shortly is the way things changed after 9 June 1993 to date. I faced difficulties after my husband's death because the boy came in an sat in my husband's house and when I heard from the kids they said he arrived at about three and I got home only about five. Seeing that he was Magudulela's relative that we were staying together with, I could not tell the boy to go away but I let him stay and wait for Mr Magudelela. I prepared tea for him until I started dishing up supper and I served him supper.
These I things I did for this guy and that bothered me after that. It appeared to my in-laws that I knew the boy and it appeared as if I arranged the whole thing and yet that was not true. That was just a practice at my house that each person who comes to my house, a visitor, we would serve him tea, and my husband was a peoples' person and liked socialising and I respected his friends as well. As I was faced with those difficulties as we were also preparing for the funeral there was no peace at all because I was being suspected as if I had arranged this whole thing. So the preparations were not smooth at all but I thank God that he has made an opportunity like this, that we can pass all that we want to say to the community and also to my in-laws as well.
It also got to the extent that the perpetrators admitted and came forth. I'm summing up the whole thing. I can't go back as to what happened because Rose has already said everything. What Rose has said is exactly what I would have said.
My husband's death was such a tragedy to me, even to this day. We miss him a great deal and at times we are so scared because we don't know what tomorrow holds. On the 6th May we were called in Nelspruit when the perpetrators appeared in front of the Amnesty Committee and they were asking for forgiveness and showed remorse. One other difficulty that I face is the fact that it's not quite clear who killed my husband. I was attacked by thugs at work and one gentleman came with three people and others were standing by the gate and he got inside my office in the clinic and he introduced himself as a relative of my husband. As I took a look at him I could not place him anywhere. I didn't know him but as we were conversing thanked him that there is somebody in the family who can still reach out to me even though others are suspecting me. As we were talking about what happened in June something touched him as he was wrapping up his conversation. He said he was brought to kill me but what he had asked for from those who brought him was that he wanted to talk to me first, but he thanked me a lot because he had heard me and he won't kill me anymore.
Confused as I was I said that maybe he should go ahead and kill me and kill my children as well and just finish the whole job. And he said he won't do that but what he does, he kills people who are wrong and perpetrators but as for me I was innocent, so he won't go on ahead with the operation.
After this guy left the office I was so scared and I was admitted in the hospital and discharged the following day. My life changed because I was no longer free at all. Even going to and from work I was no longer a free woman but I thank God that He protected me to this day where I am brave enough to lay my story and tell the Commission that God has kept us safe to this day. It is not because we are wise or smart or better but it is because of His grace and also the fact that our husbands have been, God knows better and only He will look into our needs.
What I would like to mostly thank is that there a times when things go bad and one doesn't think properly but today the truth has come to the surface and we are happy about that and we do trust and hope that the community has already heard and seen the perpetrator today. That's all I will say.
MR MANTHATA: Thank you Theresa. Are you saying that this Dhlamini was arrested. Was he ever brought before the court?
MRS MALINGA: Yes he was brought before the court.
MR MANTHATA: Was he sentenced?
MRS MALINGA: Yes he was sentenced to twenty years.
MR MANTHATA: And he then applied for amnesty?
MRS MALINGA: That's what I will say because on the 6th on the 6th of May he appeared before the Amnesty Committee.
MR MANTHATA: Theresa where are you working?
MRS MALINGA: I'm a nursing sister at Piet Retief Hospital.
MR MANTHATA: You and Rose are nurses?
MR MANTHATA: I have no further questions. One can only thank God that you are regaining your strength and confidence in the community. Thanks for the person who told you that he does not kill people. I will hand the whole event back to the Chairperson.
MR LEWIN: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Rose or Theresa, if I could just ask a few questions to confirm what you have said because I want to be absolutely clear about it. You say that Dhlamini confessed that he had been sent to kill your husbands.
MRS MAGUDULELA: That's correct, he admitted to that but his surname that we know now is Msibi.
MR LEWIN: And who did he say had sent him?
MRS MAGUDULELA: I won't be able to disclose his name. I'm not free to disclose the name.
MRS MALINGA: Do you feel free to mention a group if not the name?
MRS MAGUDULELA: He said he had been sent by and IFP member but I'm afraid, I won't mention his name.
MRS MALINGA: And did that become clear at the Amnesty Hearing as well?
MRS MAGUDULELA: Yes he did disclose the name of the person in front of the Amnesty Committee and also made mention of the fact that he was given money to undertake this operation and also that the person was an IFP member.
MRS MALINGA: And can I confirm that both, Rose your husband was a civic leader was he not?
MRS MAGUDULELA: He was the chairman of the Civic Association.
MRS MALINGA: And a known member of the ANC?
MRS MAGUDULELA: Yes that's correct.
MRS MALINGA: Could I ask because your experience is unique in the hearings that we have held of people who come forward to make a statement and who have been called to an amnesty hearing. I think that it would be very useful for all of us to share your feelings, not only how you feel about coming forward to make a statement, how did you feel at the amnesty hearing when Dhlamini was making this confession?
MRS MAGUDULELA: I felt terribly bad. I saw him the second time around and another thing that was hurting is that the people he mentioned are people that are from Thandukukhanya and what was most painful to me was that I could tell that we are not secure at all. And also the people who sent him were not arrested. That is why I'm saying we are not secure, myself and Theresa. Maybe even our families are not secure because we do not know what they have in mind, especially myself. I went to point at him in hiding, I don't feel secure at all.
MRS MALINGA: The fear that you have, when you saw him again, Dhlamini whom you described as the boy, did you feel any fear?
MRS MAGUDULELA: No I didn't have any fear because I knew that he was arrested and in the hands of the law. I just felt terrified the day he came forward to ask for amnesty.
MRS MALINGA: What would you feel do you think if he is granted amnesty?
MRS MAGUDULELA: I will leave the country, I will leave South Africa because I will feel even more insecure. If I didn't point at him I think he would still be hiding.
CHAIRPERSON: Rose and Theresa, today you've come to talk respectively about your husbands. Mandla and Mpigelele. As we've listened to stories we've heard many stories from women and women have paid a very heavy price. We always talk about the price that our youth have paid but women too have paid a very very price over the last 35 years as we've moved forward to our new democracy. Women as mothers, women as wives, women as freedom fighters. And the two of you exemplify that here today by your maturity, by your understanding and I'm sure that the patients of your hospital are indeed very proud to have you there as nurses and health care providers.
I myself are very concerned that in our new democracy people still feel frightened, and I can understand that fear because the individual or individuals you are referring to are still free. I hope that the message that goes through to those people is that what cannot happen is harm coming to the two of you. That within the Commission of course, you can come to us at any time and ask for protection. We hope that our police services who are present here today are also listening to the concern that you and Theresa are expressing. I thank you very much for coming and sharing your pain with us today.