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TRUTH AND RECONCILIATION COMMISSION 

HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 30.10.96 ALEXANDRA

MR LEWIN: Mr Mayisa I would like to welcome you to the stand. Can you hear what I am saying?

MR MAYISA: Yes.

MR LEWIN: Before you begin your evidence could I ask you please to take the oath.

DOKKIE ELIAS MAYISA (s.s.)

MR LEWIN: I would now like to ask Commissioner Hlengiwe Mkhize please to lead you in your evidence. Thank you.

MS MKHIZE: I welcome you. I would like you to tell the Commission more about yourself and also introduce the one sitting next to you.

MR MAYISA: This is my nephew.

MS MKHIZE: I would like you to explain your story before the Commission. On the 28th February 1992, it was early in the morning, nine o'clock. When we woke up we saw a blue Cressida, there were three people inside the car. We know one of the occupants of the car because he was staying opposite to our house. I also know his name. He was the enemy of the deceased. I was busy preparing tea inside the house, the deceased came into the house and told me that they were going to town at the ANC offices, Khotso House. He used to visit that place. I suspected because I saw his enemy in the car, I didn't ask him much because even if they were enemies they used to talk to each other. That is how he left our place. It was about past nine in the

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morning. They took him the car, the Cressida. That is how he disappeared. 5 strokes, 8, 10 until early in the morning we were still waiting for him. The next morning when we woke up, I used to sleep with him and the others used to sleep in the front side of the house. When I went to ask the others whether he arrived they said no, he didn't come back home. We started going around asking the comrades whether they had seen him and they said they haven't seen him. It was Saturday and on Sunday we tried to look for him. On Monday in the morning we got a call from the ANC offices. The person who called was Comrade Dipu. He said he got a phone call from Pretoria, Garankua that three people have been killed and he said because we heard that you are also looking for someone who disappeared on Friday you had better go and check if it is not one of the three people who were killed. We waited for this man and he came and he accompanied us to Garankua. We went to the mortuary. We met the criminal investigating officers. We told them that one of our relatives had disappeared and we were just coming to check if he is not among the three. They asked us if we had our ID's and we responded by saying yes we do have the ID's. They looked at each other when they saw his picture and then it became clear to me that he is among the three. They told us that they were still busy with the bodies, then we had to wait outside. After some few minutes they called us. We entered the room, they pulled them out and we discovered that the deceased, we identified them as one of my niece. They have already been operated on, the CID told us that we have to give a statement and we refused to give a statement. They tried to ask us to give the statement, we didn't give the statement, we just went back

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home and we collected the hearse to come back the next day to collect him. The following day we went there with the hearse. We signed some papers for his release and the death certificate. It was Temba. The place was called Temba. We pulled out the stretcher, we put him on the stretcher, we went on to look for a death certificate. We asked at the police station where we can get a death certificate and they directed us to the place. Before leaving the place we asked them to show us where the incident took place where they were killed. They just directed us that it was under a bridge. We insisted that they accompany us because we know customarily that if someone died in a particular place we have to go to where the person had been killed and also customarily or traditionally explain to the deceased's body that we are coming here to pick you up and take you back home. They refused to take us to the place where they were killed and they said don't blame us, this person was given to us and we asked them who gave you the body, they said the police from Gauteng gave us this body. And we asked them does it mean that you can't show us exactly where he fell and died. They said no, they asked us where we come from, we said we are from Alexandra and one of them was surprised and we asked one of them to take us to the station commander, they said the station commander wasn't around at the moment and we could see that they were not going to help us because we were refusing to go and show us where they were killed. We just continued to the offices to get a death certificate. We reported the matter and we came back. MS MKHIZE: We would like to thank you very much Mr Mayisa. I would like to ask you a few questions to explain your story further. Can you tell the Commission more about Delon

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Mayisa as to how old was he at the time of the incident.

MR MAYISA: He was born in 1957, December 25.

MS MKHIZE: Can you also explain further as to at the time of the incident was he still schooling?

MR MAYISA: He used to attend night school.

MS MKHIZE: If you remember well what standard was he doing? Relax and tell us exactly about him.

MR MAYISA: He was studying and he was still young. He became involved politically in 1986. Thereafter he left school and he was actively involved in politics.

MS MKHIZE: When you say he was involved in politics what exactly was he doing in the political sphere? I think now with the new freedom you should be free to explain as to his involvements.

MR MAYISA: He was an ANC member.

MS MKHIZE: You said he had to leave school. Were there any other works or operations that was allocated to him to do?

MR MAYISA: I would say that he was a leader at the Mandela area.

MS MKHIZE: Was he trained in handling firearms. If ever he had firearms what kind of firearms did he have?

MR MAYISA: He was a leader in the street committee.

MS MKHIZE: The three people, you said one of them was his enemy, can you tell us about the differences between the deceased and his enemy? Were they belonging to one organisation or different organisations?

MR MAYISA: They were not in one organisation. The deceased was a member of the ANC and his enemy was the person who was doing criminal acts.

MS MKHIZE: I would like to believe that those were not in line with politics of the day.

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MR MAYISA: Yes.

MS MKHIZE: If possible can you disclose those criminal acts. And also the differences between them.

MR MAYISA: I would say I didn't know much about this other person's involvement as to which organisation he belonged. MS MKHIZE: In your statement you talked about a green Cressida but now you are saying it is navy blue.

MR MAYISA: I would say there was a mistake. The person who saw it well is my niece here sitting next to me.

MS MKHIZE: What is the correct picture?

MR MAYISA: It was blue.

MS MKHIZE: You said you were called by Comrade Dipu. Did you know this Comrade Dipu? Can you tell us about the way he called you and also the message that he gave to you.

MR MAYISA: I didn't take the phone, the children took the phone at home and then they gave me the message.

MS MKHIZE: When they explained giving you the message what did they say to you, what was the message?

MR MAYISA: They said he got a phone call from Garankua explaining that three people had been shot and he was suspecting one of them might be my nephew.

MS MKHIZE: Was there any case in regard to this matter?

MR MAYISA: No.

MS MKHIZE: As a person who was involved in politics did you get any assistance from the ANC at that time?

MR MAYISA: No.

MS MKHIZE: I would like to thank you and take you back to the Chairperson to allow other commissioners to ask questions.

MS SOOKA: Mr Mayisa, you mentioned that there were three comrades in this Cressida. Were all three of them not on

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friendly terms with the deceased?

MR MAYISA: I only know one of them who was an enemy to the deceased.

MS SOOKA: Do you know his name?

MR MAYISA: He is name is Masholo Sholo.

MS SOOKA: ... the bodies, you say that you found Dilon at the government mortuary with two others. Were the two others the people who had been in the Cressida? Was one of them Masholo Sholo or was that someone different?

MR MAYISA: I would say yes. Those were the people in the Cressida.

MS SOOKA: But it was not the one who was his enemy.

MR MAYISA: I would say three of them died, there were the three of them. We found them at the mortuary.

MS SOOKA: But the one that you just named was he amongst the dead?

MR MAYISA: Yes, that is correct.

MS SOOKA: Do you know the driver of that vehicle?

MR MAYISA: They investigated about the Cressida and it was found that it was registered through John Vorster.

MS SOOKA: Also in your statement you talked about the face of the deceased having acid burns. Can you tell us more about that please.

MR MAYISA: Ja. His face as burnt with acid and his hands, on his forehead there was a hole of this size, his neck was broken. You can turn him to any direction. His left leg couldn't be stretched. It was broken, it had to remain bent and the back of the heel, there was a hole, when you see inside you can see the bone. In his stomach the sideways there were about - it looked like he was shot four times and on his knees it looked as though he was shot in each knee.

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I don't remember well what it looked like there.

MS SOOKA: What is the name of the investigating officer on this matter?

MR MAYISA: It is not the police who were searching but we heard the incident about Comrade Dipu.

MS SOOKA: Thank you.

MS SEROKE: Mr Mayisa, you said they were asked to go to Shell House. Were they called to go to Shell House?

MR MAYISA: He usually frequented the place. He just went there.

MS SEROKE: When Comrade Dipu told you about the incident did you go to enquire more from him as to how he found out that these people were shot at Garankua?

MR MAYISA: He said he got it from a telephone message, someone phoned from Garankua. They found his phone numbers and they called him to give him the message. Because the deceased had some beads around his neck and they were a symbol of his political organisation.

MR LEWIN: Mr Mayisa may I think who do you think was responsible for your nephew's death?

MR MAYISA: I don't have any clue.

MR LEWIN: Where do you think that we as the Commission should look and perhaps Dilon's sister would also like to say something. Would she like to say anything? Before you do that could I just ask you to take the oath as well.

ELDA TSHABALALA (s.s.): What I can ask before the Commission I would like you to investigate, especially the police because usually during those days when we were at home, police used to frequent us. One day they came to attack him at night, they knocked at the door and saying that if he doesn't open the door he is going to pull it. He ALEXANDRA HEARING TRC/GAUTENG

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opened the door that day. They told him that they wanted arms. They said he had arms because he is an ANC member. My brother said you can go and search for arms anywhere in the house but if you don't find them you must know that now we are going to fight about this, he told the police.

MR LEWIN: Why do you think the police were responsible for his death?

MS TSHABALALA: I would say that police harassed him. In most cases, even when he was coming to the ANC offices Mkupani he would say that we were attacked on the way to the offices, they stopped us and robbed us. They were asking us saying maybe you are carrying arms in your car.

MR LEWIN: Could I ask if you do think of any other points which might help us in our investigation if you could please contact us again so that we can try and help you in finding out what actually happened in that time. And could you just give us your name please.

MS TSHABALALA: My name is Elda Tshabalala.

MR LEWIN: Thank you. Are there any other points that you would like, either of you, to say to the Commission.

MS TSHABALALA: Before, while he was still alive, he got into altercation with the police and he reported one of the police.

MS SEROKE: Do you know this police?

MS TSHABALALA: I don't know them because I didn't have time to sit with him and chat, I was working. I normally come back late in the evening.

MS SEROKE: Why did he report them?

MS TSHABALALA: It was because every time when they see him they always wanted arms from him. They always came and searched the house looking for arms. They broke everything,

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wardrobes.

MS SEROKE: And you don't know the police?

MS TSHABALALA: Yes, we don't know them. I personally I would say I don't know them because I used to go to work and only when I come back to discover what they have done in the house.

MR LEWIN: Was there any evidence that you had ever that he had arms?

MS TSHABALALA: There was no such evidence.

MR LEWIN: Elias and Elda we would like to thank you very much for coming to the hearing today, for telling us this story. We will try and follow it up. As I think we have said in so many cases before the real pain, apart from the real pain of someone dying is the pain of not knowing why they died or how they died or who was responsible and that is something that we as a Commission are trying to do. As I have said, if there is anything more that you remember please don't hesitate to come forward and let us know because we will investigate this and we will try and come back to you. We understand your pain and we are very grateful to you for sharing your pain with all of us here. We feel part of the community, we feel that it is very important, as you have shown, very important to come forward and to tell these stories, however painful they are. So thank you very much for coming, both of you. Thank you.

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