Going to speak Afrikaans or English.

Denzil, are you going to ask questions in Afrikaans. Okay, right Mr Bocks, will you stand to take the oath. Thank you.

ZO-MARIUS BOCKS Duly sworn states

Adv Potgieter is going to lead your evidence.

Thank you, Mary, good afternoon Marius - Zo-Marius. I hope you’re comfortable there.

Yes, I am - I’m happy.

You’re most welcome here. I know you’re from Carnarvon, is that correct?

Yes.

Yes, I think you have to pull the microphone closer, so we can hear you clearly.

Yes, I am from Carnarvon.

Tell us, what do you do?

I finished my studies last year in Business Management, I’m trying to find a work, I’m working at a very small shop as a bookkeeper - a stock controller.

As bookkeeper you say?

Yes.

Is that in Carnarvon?

Yes, that is in Carnarvon.

So you say you’ve done a diploma at the Peninsula Technikon.

Yes, in Business Management, yes.

Have you completed it?

No - no, I still owe a subject.

So you still have to complete?

Yes, that is correct, I still need to complete my studies.

What is your status, are you married or unmarried?

I’m unmarried.

Any dependence - any dependence?

Yes, I have a son.

How old is he?

7 years.

Your story takes us back to 1986, on 16 July ’86.

Yes, that is correct.

You were still at school then?

That’s correct.

Where were you at school?

I was at the Carnarvon Senior Secondary School.

What standard were you in ’86?

I was in Std 9.

Std 9?

That’s correct.

What positions did you hold at school?

I was on the Prefect Council - I was part of that Council of Prefects.

Oh, so it’s not quite an SRC but is it almost the same structure?

Yes, more or less the same but the status is a bit lower than SRC status.

[indistinct]

As I say they have a bit of a stigma - bit of a air about them, but is this the leading body that showed leadership in terms of students?

Yes, that’s correct.

Now, lets go back to that day, in ’86, the 16^th of July. What happened?

It was just after a break and I was in my English lecture room with Mr Mohale. Then the Security Police arrived, Mr Du Toit and a Kriel - and a Mr Kriel - and a person that I don’t know - I think it was Sergeant Moodie - something like that. I’m not quite sure about the name but I think that is what it is.

So was he also a Security Police?

Yes.

The Du Toit guy you referred to, is he also a Security Police?

Yes he was head - he was head.

So they arrived at school, did they come to you?

Yes, they came to the classroom and they were looking for me. I can gather that it was because of a meeting that I’ve chaired. It was a meeting on students that were detained before the 16^th of June.

Now we wanted to plan to halt the school activities since some of our leaders have been detained without good reason. So obviously that led to them bringing to - coming - to the school and they saw me as a kind of a instigator and obviously they wanted to stop me from intervening in school affairs.

Slogans were written on our walls and, of cause, there were also a case of students setting a office alight and that all led to intimidation and resulted in the slogans on the wall. They then took me - the police - to the shooting range - the shooting range.

Now, where is the shooting range - in town, out of town?

About 2 km out of town.

Is it very silent there - is it a quiet spot?

Yes, it is a very quiet spot. Only people there, in the immediate vicinity, would know what’s happening.

So they took you there, in the outskirts of town. What happened there?

They took me there - they tied me to a pole.

With what did they tie you up?

No, they chained me, then they got hold of some bags and they’ve pulled that over my neck - they wetted the bags, pulled it over - and then they tied it close with a rope. And now I had the situation it’s a wet bag - they hit me - I yelled - they yell at me - the people mistreating me like this were Du Toit, Kriel and this Moodie guy.

This went on - this treatment went on a considerable time - and at some stage I lost my consciousness and they - but they carried on hitting me - assaulting me. At some stages I was not even experiencing it, I just had this awareness that I was hit by a baton. Then they would refresh the bag and re-pull it over my head.

And you are tied up all this time? Where, your hands and feet?

Yes, both hands and feet - I was tied up. In the beginning they also shot at me while my face was covered. I couldn’t see whether they were actually doing it, but I heard the shots - I - and I gathered that they were shooting at me. After regaining my consciousness I heard a dog - how the dog came there, I don’t know.

I don’t know whether they’ve planned this or what happened but I saw them planning to tie my private parts to fish line and they would - they planned to tie this line to the doorknob so that if somebody closes the door, so I would have to move forward and if I would move forward, the dog will bite me. I don’t know what went

- got into them.

They must have been crazy and this is what they’ve planned, but instead of them pulling this through, they decided not to continue with that - they, to the contrary, decided to rather tie me up again and start assaulting me again. I don’t know what made them do that. They went on for a long time again - up to five o’clock, I think, that afternoon.

So the time I came back to the cells, we received our food - usually the food were dished out about six o’clock.

So for the whole day you were at the shooting range?

For the whole day, from about 10 o’clock - tot - to about 5 o’clock I was at the shooting range.

Were you assaulted the whole time there at the shooting range?

Yes, that’s correct.

And you had this bag over you all the time there.

Yes, that’s true.

Did they question you - interrogate you?

Well, it was quite simple questions. They wanted to know about my friends, for instance this teacher that had an influence on me. They wanted to know whether he was an instigator and whether he caused all the riots at school and he - he - wanted to know about Gerald - friends like these, what influence they’ve had on us. And they wanted to have all this information regarding these people. They were detained, a lot of them. They also wanted to know what caused the fire.

ADV POTGIETER:

So the interrogation was a - about the events at the school - they wanted to know more about that?

That’s right.

Did you refuse to answer they’re questions. What was your attitude?

I was quite arrogant, later on I could actually not even feel them hitting me, and I just decided I’m not going to leave my friends in alert. I don’t want to - want them - to be hurt. And I was actually stead fast in what I did.

So because of your attitude, you were actually assaulted even more - that resulted in that?

That’s correct - yes that’s correct.

So later on they took you to the cells in Carnarvon and tell us what happened then.

When we - got - got - came to the cells, I met some other friends there. Wesley, for instance, was one of the people that gave me information. Eshelle Andrias was also detained at the same time that I was captured. They took him in a blue Ford car, I was taken in a bakkie. Now these friends were there - they were left alone and they only wanted information from them, but they look me, instead, and I was kept in a cell. About a month in - in the cell in Carnarvon and then I was transferred to Williston.

So you were kept for about a month in the cells -in the Police cells - in Carnarvon?

Yes.

Did they interrogate you even further.

No.

So you were just locked up?

Yes, I was just locked up.

Did they tell you what they did - to you - that you were detained? Did they give you reasons?

Du Toit came there each weekend and then they would tell us something about a Fourteen-Days-Detention Law and I was later on transferred to Rooihel at Williston and it was - we were always kept for a period of fourteen days and they notified us - with regard to that.

So you say from Carnarvon you were transferred to Williston. How long did they detain you there?

Also for a month.

And from Williston, where were you transferred then?

I was transferred to George.

How was you - long was you detained there?

Also a month.

And when were you released?

It must have been towards the end of October - I can’t remember the exact date. I know the exams have been completed and the schools have reopened when we have returned.

So you were detained from 16 July 1986 and released at the end of October ’86.

Yes.

And after the events at the shooting range, were you ever interrogated again?

No, not again.

So, they’ve just locked you up?

Yes, they just locked me up.

And they left you there?

Yes.

Were you all - were you convicted on anything?

No.

Did they ever give you a reason for your detention?

No, no reason. I was assaulted and locked up and they treated me the way they saw fit.

And as far as you are concerned, why were you locked up? What did you do wrong?

I think it was part of intimidation. I think it’s because they saw me as a intimidator, trying to close the school, because we demanded that the students, that were released, be - that’s been detained be released before we went on with the school. And I think it’s because of that.

How old were you then?

18.

ADV POTGIETER:

What is the impact of this incident on you?

To be honest, I’ve entered the course for Business Management but I have really problems studying. It might be all the hitting on my head - I don’t want to make excuses - I wasn’t that bright at school but the point is now I really battle to concentrate. I find it very difficult - I really battled last year - I struggled.

I prepare myself, I study but some days I just give the impression that I might be lazy, because I just don’t have a focus. It’s although I go blank and I can’t remember anything. Last year I’ve had a operation to my knee. I’m a [indistinct] , there I asked the doctors to try and establish whether I’ve lie - low or high blood pressure because I wanted to determine the reason for all this. I’m usually very dizzy when I get up, you know.

Now, before the incident how was your health?

I was at the doctor once before in my life - when my tonsils were removed. So I’m - I’m - very healthy actually.

You’ve given us evidence that they treated you with this bag - this wet bag over your face. Do you have any effects of that - what happens if you close yourself with a blanket, for instance?

If a duvet or a blanket - if I have to live in a - lie under it and I feel it on my neck, then I - I - feel smothered and I get very tense. So I have to lie on my stomach, for instance.

So if you pull the blanket up to high then you have the feeling that you’ll be uncomfortable?

Yes, that’s correct.

Does this all happen after the incident?

Yes.

How do you feel today about the incident? I mean they’ve just left you there for a few months.

I’d like to put a question to the panel [indistinct] and is it for me - is it okay from my side it’s impossible, and honestly to you, it’s impossible for me to reconcile with someone, today, who’s still in the Force, still influence people.

And the end of the day I must go back to these people, reconcile with someone. Is there not a possibility that the Commission can do something so that that people can be, at lease, removed form their positions?

All 3 Police Officers, are they still serving in Carnarvon?

I don’t - I’m not quite sure where Du Toit is - I think one of them is at Beaufort. The other one, Kriel - you know the Government went so far that they’ve actually - they did post him to - Carnarvon as well, again.

So he actually was promoted? That’s what you’re saying ?

Yes, yes.

Anything else that you’d like to add to your evidence? Any - anything that you’d like to add?

No, actually not - I just hope that the panel will give attention to what I’ve put to them. You know, many things happened [indistinct] in the Forces. They can influence someone else to do that - at lease please remove them from the Forces. How could I reconcile with someone at the end of the day , who’s on top of me.

If I can make an example of - if I can make an example of Biskop. My Biskop - his a Biskop of my church, sorry, he will divide your congregation - he will - and lets say he brakes up the congregation, how can I reconcile with such a person? So that person will have to reconcile.

Did you make - did you lay a charge at any stage?

The Deputy of the Police Station, Attie Kriel - Attie Kriel - took reports. I don’t hate him - he’s a very ordinary person today and he was paid off, apparently because of alleged crime - alleged robbery, but the statements he took from us he never took forward anyway. He is just a ordinary till man in our town today. So - so - our cases were not followed up at all.

Marius, we thank you.

Any questions, Dr Ramashala?

Mr Marius, you say that you suffer from dizziness?

Yes.

And you’ve had medical assessment done?

Yes.

And what did the doctors say?

No, sorry I told - I tell a lie. What happened is like - I went to the doctor at that stage, Dr Neeht. Today he is not in my home town, but what happened he only give me pills for my kidney cyst - the only way - I told him everything what happened with me, but unfortunately he’s just taking it cool because it’s his brothers who done that to me.

And you still suffer dizziness today?

Today still and had have even a problem with my kidneys because laying on the floor, that side.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions?

Thank you, Zo-Marius. We’ve said that many of you young people made a large contribution significant to the liberation of our country. Many of you are victims and maybe if it helps you what you’ve suffered there - those years - actually have helped to bring us to this point in our history where we are a country busting a democratic system.

I don’t know whether it helps to levitate the pain you know, if you think back like this, you can say at leased that it was not in vain because we are now experiencing the fruit of you efforts. Now and then we need to remark that many of our young people have not enjoyed their youth and they had to participate in this struggle in the way - like the people like you have had to do it. But we want to thank you, we also need to say that we have to remind ourselves that a very high price was paid for our freedom and we must not waist our freedom easily. We thank you.