DR BORAINE:

[indistinct] very pleased to see you here today and to welcome you on behalf of the Commission. You have waited since early this morning and we thank you for your patience and we hope that you feel now having listened to some of the others that we don’t bite - that we actually care about who you are and your story.

And we also know that it’s not easy for you to think back and to remember the pain and the horror of your own experience. But we hope that you will feel very free to share your story with us. Before I ask my colleague Denzil Potgieter to lead you as you tell your stories, would you please stand for the taking of the oath.

SYLVIA VUIZWA MOLELEKI Duly sworn states

DR BORAINE:

Thank you very much please be seated and Mr Potgieter will now take over.

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you Dr Boraine. Good afternoon Ms Moleleki and Ms Koopman - we’ll deal with your evidence first Ms Moleleki and then when you finished take the evidence of Ms Koopman.

Now your evidence Ms Moleleki concerns a shooting incident where you were shot is that correct?

MS MOLELEKI:

ADV POTGIETER:

Just before we come to actual incident, perhaps you can just tell us briefly who you are and where you come from - where do you live?

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you - the incident that you will talk about happened in Ditloung where you live is that so?

ADV POTGIETER:

Could you tell the panel what actually happened on the day that the shooting happened.

He said that there were no riots, they were just toyi-toying. It was not all the people from the township, it was only a small group because we are two groups in the township. It was only kids. Then the police came, then Flemming shot me. I was actually shot by Flemming, my son said. Then my husband ask him (Flemming) and said to my husband that "You must say thanks, because he is not dead. I am very fortunate that I am dead". He was a sergeant at our place that time, but now he is an adjudant. The adjudant was Jenkins, who left just after the riots with Dr Meyer.

ADV POTGIETER:

This policeman Flemming that you speaking about - you say that when the incident happened was adjudant Jenning or Jenkins, is Flemming now [intervention]

It was Adjudant Jenkins, Flemming was a sergeant.

ADV POTGIETER:

Ja, is Flemming now [intervention]

Flemming is now the adjudant.

ADV POTGIETER:

Is Flemming today the adjudant he is now in charge of the police.

Yes, he is the adjudant.

ADV POTGIETER:

And you sure that he is - you know him well.

I am talking the truth, I know him very well.

ADV POTGIETER:

I just want to mention it to you for your comment - because I am suppose to do that, we got a note from Flemming he seems to be a Captain now, Captain HSP Flemming from Olifantshoek, first of all saying that he denies what you say - in other words that he shot you and secondly saying that on the 16^th of May 1993 he was on sick leave and he was not on duty at all. I’ve got to put that to you.

CHAIRPERSON:

Order please.

ADV POTGIETER:

I’ve got to put that to you for your comment, would you like to comment on that?

I have got faith in what I am saying, I was shot by Flemming on the 16^th June during the stayaway. It was Flemming himself, even my husband can say or even Mothelesi. He said that I stone two police van which were very far from me. They were standing in the veld. He is just denying, I am saying he is the one who shot me. My only witness is no more alive, he is dead; Breken Mocumumpi, who was also shot during the riots.

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you for you comment Ms Moleleki - just one other thing around that incident was Flemming before he shot you was he telling you to throw him - gooi my was that what he was saying?

He said that I must shot. He was standing right in the middle of the road holding a gun. He said`` Throw, I will shoot"!

ADV POTGIETER:

But did you have any intention of throwing anything?

How can I throw anything at him because my hand was broken. How can I throw at him because he was taking us out of the road.

CHAIRPERSON:

Order please.

We should get out of the street, we are not suppose to toyi-toyi in the street.

ADV POTGIETER:

Thank you Ms Moleleki just in conclusion - what is there that the Commission can do for you - what do you want us to do about your case?

I can no longer work because of the injuries I sustained and I have got problems with my upper body, my chest. If the commission can help me. I will be very glad.

Thank you very much.

CHAIRPERSON:

Thank you - any further questions - Dr Boraine.

DR BORAINE:

I want to ask you a question about Dr Cronje - his name is being mentioned several times as someone who helped people who were shot or who were injured. Is he still - do you know him now - where is he today?

I know him that he is a private Doctor in Kathu.

DR BORAINE:

He is still there today - thank you very much.

He is still there.

Thank you very much, mum.

On 16 June 1993 at 10h00 we were zabalaza, toi-toiing, a group of people from Ditloung. The police arrived and told us to stop, it is illegal. They got out of two bakkies and we ran away. I went into the yard of Katrina Seekoei’s house. Constable Flemming came to me and said ja gooi - gooi and pointed his rifle at me. My arm was in cast and I was holding it up so he must have thought I was going to throw something at him. Gooi, dan skiet ek, he said and shot me with bird shot. One of it is still in my right elbow, I then ran away.

My husband went to ask why they shot me. They, the police said it was because I stormed their bakkie with stones. Flemming also said sy moet bly wees sy is nie vrek nie. They left and came back later that day.

Mothelesi took me to the doctors in Postmasburg and Olifantshoek but both refused to treat me. We then went to Dr Cronje in Kathu who helped me.

A week later Mothelesi took us to a doctor in Galeshewe, I cannot remember who. He filled out forms and we had to take it to the Olifantshoek police station. Nothing ever came of it.

The victim alleges that on the 16^th of June 1993 she and various others were toi-toiing in the streets of Ditloung that the crowds were only toi-toiing and marching in commemoration of the 1976 uprisings. At approximately 10:00 am the police arrived and according to the witness they got out of their bakkies and told them that the toi-toiing and the marching was illegal. On receiving instructions to disperse she ran into the yard of Katrina Seekoei. She was followed by Constable Flemming who came up to her and pointed his shotgun at her and said the following words - as jy gooi dan gaan ek jou skiet and without any reason shot the complainant with his shotgun.

The complainant was shot in her elbow as well as behind her neck. The leader of the ANC Mr David Mothelesi went to confront Constable Flemming and questioned him why he had shot the complainant. According to the witness Flemming said the following words, she was lucky that she has not been killed - and he admitted shooting her.

According to the complainant and the witness there were no incidents of any stone-throwing and it was totally unnecessary for the police or for Constable Flemming to use any means of force or shooting to subdue or disperse the crowd as the crowd had already dispersed on their instructions. A while later the police returned to the complainant’s house and Constable Flemming requested the complainant to go with him to receive medical treatment. The complainant refused.

The complainant was taken by David the witness to a hospital in Postmasburg as well as Olifantshoek where she was refused medical treatment. Complainant was then taken to Dr Cronje in Kathu which is approximately 45 - 50 kilometres away from where the complainant resides and there she received treatment from Dr Cronje.

According to the complainant a case was filed at the Olifantshoek police station but they never ever heard anything of the case. According to the complainant many other people were shot on that particular day and also received treatment from Dr Cronje.

Complainant’s other witness Beker Mompie was also shot on that particular day and had since died.

Dr Cronje was visited in Kathu and can recall that he attended to many people from the surrounding areas as he was the only doctor willing to help them. According to Dr Cronje he was ostracised by the society for more than two and a half years and had to struggle to make a living as a doctor in the Kathu area. Dr Cronje will see if he can find any of the medical records of the patients he has attended to during the periods of unrest in the Postmasburg, Olifantshoek and Kathu areas and will forward it to the TRC’s offices in Cape Town.

Also available will be Kabelo Bosiame. He will also testify that during the unrest in June he was shot by the police while just walking to his residence and that he was also treated by Dr Cronje and he also lodged a complaint with the police at Olifantshoek but up till today nothing has ever transpired of the case that was made.

Vuizwa Moleleki as well as Mr Bosiame would like the TRC to investigate that matters further and to see that justice is done and that their cases which they made receive the necessary attention and that the alleged perpetrators be brought to book.