HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS

SUBMISSIONS - QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

DATE: 13-05-1997

NAME: MZWABANTU NGXOKELA

CHAIRMAN: We will now call forward Mzwabantu Ngxokela.

MZWABANTU NGXOKELA: (sworn states)

REVD XUNDU: Thank you. Mr Chairperson, he has been properly sworn in.

CHAIRMAN: Tiny Maya will lead you with questions on behalf of the Commission.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Chairperson. Mr Ngxokela, you are here to tell us the story about yourself about what happened to you on the 7th of June 1987, is that correct?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is correct.

MS MAYA: You are also from Stutterheim?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: You said that on this particular day you were arrested by certain members of the South African Police. Can you please tell us what happened on that day?

MR NGXOKELA: I attended a night vigil for Bhabha Mlata.

MS MAYA: Please come nearer to the mike so that we can hear you.

MR NGXOKELA: I attended a night vigil for Bhabha Mlata. I then left at night, I went home.

MS MAYA: Please raise your voice, we cannot hear you.

MR NGXOKELA: In the next morning on Sunday, the municipality police came in my home, they kicked the door, looking for me. I woke up, I opened the door. They took me to their house.

They then assaulted me, asking me what I was doing in a meeting. I asked them why were you beating me, they said they were beating me because I attended a meeting.

They were beating me with sjamboks. They were kicking me. I would fall down and they would kick me in my jaws and in my body. They took me to the rent office, they said that I must give them a statement.

I told them that I can't do that because I know nothing about what they were accusing me. They then took me to the South African police, they arrested me. I spent three days there.

On Wednesday I appeared in court. I was released on a free bail. They told me that they were investigating the case. We then found Attorneys and I was found not guilty in court.

MS MAYA: You said that the police came and they assaulted you in your home. Who was Bhabha Mlata, the one you attended a night vigil?

MR NGXOKELA: Bhabha Mlata was the one who was killed.

MS MAYA: Who killed him?

MR NGXOKELA: I was from Johannesburg where I was working. I was told that that weekend he was going to be buried. I attended the night vigil because he was a comrade I knew.

MS MAYA: Were you a member of any political organisation in Stutterheim?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: What was the name of that political organisation?

MR NGXOKELA: It was the UDF, but I was working in Johannesburg at the time.

MS MAYA: Did you notice any of the police that beat you?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Who are these police?

MR NGXOKELA: It was Nono Phahlane, Bhadu and Didiza

MS MAYA: Please raise your voice.

MR NGXOKELA: It was Nono Phahlane, Bhadu, Didiza and Kenny. There were seven of them.

MS MAYA: Were they South African police?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, they were South African police.

MS MAYA: You said that they took you to the rent office, why were they taking you there?

MR NGXOKELA: The rent office is the municipality office where we pay our rent.

MS MAYA: Why were they taking you, why were they beating you in the rent office?

MR NGXOKELA: They first took me to their home, they handcuffed me. Nono Phahlane wanted to shoot me. They then took me to the rent office.

MS MAYA: Was it a usual thing that when people were arrested by the police, they would be taken to the rent office?

MR NGXOKELA: I don't know because I was not staying there, I was working in Johannesburg.

MS MAYA: What happened to you after that?

MR NGXOKELA: They took me to the South African police.

MS MAYA: You were assaulted there?

MR NGXOKELA: They told the police to arrest me. The police then arrested me.

MS MAYA: Were there any other people who were arrested with you?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, I was arrested with Niqelo.

MS MAYA: Who is Niqelo?

MR NGXOKELA: They came with Niqelo in my home.

MS MAYA: Were you members of the same organisation with Niqelo?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Where is Niqelo now?

MR NGXOKELA: Niqelo passed away.

MS MAYA: Who are the other people?

MR NGXOKELA: It was only the two of us.

MS MAYA: Were there any other people who were tortured by the police because they attended the funeral?

MR NGXOKELA: I did not hear anything about that.

MS MAYA: Were there any other people who witnessed your arrest?

MR NGXOKELA: My mother was there.

MS MAYA: Where is your mother now?

MR NGXOKELA: My mother is at home.

MS MAYA: Who are other people who witnessed this arrest?

MR NGXOKELA: I did not see anybody because the police took me at home, they arrested me.

MS MAYA: You said that you were arrested and they released you after three days?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is correct.

MS MAYA: While you were in police cells, who was with you?

MR NGXOKELA: It was myself and Niqelo.

MS MAYA: The one who passed away?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: You said that there were other people who were arrested with you, apart from Niqelo?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, but I don't remember their names.

MS MAYA: In the community, did you see any people who were arrested with you after this?

MR NGXOKELA: No, I don't remember them.

MS MAYA: Do you know why these people, these police arrested you and Niqelo?

MR NGXOKELA: I don't know because I was not staying at home, I was working in Johannesburg.

MS MAYA: In the organisation, were you a leader or did you have any position?

MR NGXOKELA: I was just a member.

MS MAYA: The people who arrested you, are they still around in your community?

MR NGXOKELA: Please repeat your question.

MS MAYA: The people who arrested you and assaulted you, are they still around?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

MS MAYA: Are they still policemen?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, they are.

MS MAYA: When did they stop assaulting you?

MR NGXOKELA: Nono Phahlane pointed me with a gun, they then stopped him.

MS MAYA: You mentioned that you vomited blood, that is when they stopped assaulting you?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is correct.

MS MAYA: Did you go to any Doctor?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, in Stutterheim.

MS MAYA: Do you remember the Doctor's name?

MR NGXOKELA: It was Dr Brink.

MS MAYA: Did he treat you?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, he treated me.

MS MAYA: How were you injured?

MR NGXOKELA: I broke my jaws and my ribs.

MS MAYA: Do you still have medical records?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, from Dr Brink and Mt Coke Hospital.

MS MAYA: We would like you to give these documents to our investigators. Do you have something to add to your story?

MR NGXOKELA: I cannot do anything, I am just staying at home, doing nothing.

MS MAYA: Did you lay a charge against the police or the municipality police or the people who were responsible for the rent office?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, I laid a charge in the BPC offices.

MS MAYA: Were you compensated?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, I received a settlement amount of R3 000-00.

MS MAYA: Do you remember the name of the Attorney?

MR NGXOKELA: His name was Mhlalana.

MS MAYA: What about Tabata and Van Heerden? Was it Mhlalana alone or Mhlalana with Tabata?

MR NGXOKELA: It was Tabata and John Smith.

MS MAYA: What is your request to the Commission sir?

MR NGXOKELA: My request is that I got injured and I can't do anything for myself.

MS MAYA: What would you like us to do?

MR NGXOKELA: I would like to get medical treatment and to be compensated.

MS MAYA: Is that all sir?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, and I am alone. I am alone at home.

MS MAYA: Thank you Mr Ngxokela, I will now hand over to the Chairperson.

CHAIRMAN: Mr Ngxokela, the Dr Brink you mentioned, is he the same Dr Brink we heard about in Khayalethu Hela's testimony? Khayalethu Hela said that Dr Brink was corroborating with the police?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is correct.

CHAIRMAN: Is he the same Dr Brink?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

CHAIRMAN: You received treatment from him?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, I received treatment from him. He treated me and then he discharged me.

CHAIRMAN: Were you from prison at the time?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

CHAIRMAN: Tiny Maya?

MS MAYA: My last question Mr Ngxokela, you said that your ribs were broken and your jaws were fractured, were you admitted in hospital?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, in Stutterheim hospital.

MS MAYA: Thank you.

CHAIRMAN: Mr Sandi?

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Chairman. Mr Ngxokela, the police are supposed to protect the people, is that so?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is so.

ADV SANDI: At the time of your incident, were they protecting people in Stutterheim?

MR NGXOKELA: No, they were not protecting people.

ADV SANDI: Were they interested as the police to protect people?

MR NGXOKELA: No, they were not protecting people at that time.

ADV SANDI: When I look at your testimony and the testimony from people from Stutterheim, am I mistaken to think that the police in Stutterheim at this time, were doing anything they wanted to do to people, is that so?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes, that is so.

ADV SANDI: They were not prevented by anything, by anyone from doing whatever they wanted?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: They were not working according to the rules of the police? So you can say that they were making their own laws?

MR NGXOKELA: Yes.

ADV SANDI: Thank you Mr Ngxokela.

CHAIRMAN: Thank you Mr Ngxokela, we thank you for appearing before the Commission to give your testimony.

We also understand your situation because of this assault as the Commission, we understand that. All the cases presented before us, we investigate them trying to find out all the details so that we can make a decision of whether this person is a victim or not.

If we found out that the person is a victim, that the person's rights have been violated, we would then be able to inform the President, this is the first step that you've given us your statement and you've given us your evidence.

When we are making the finding, we will know what to conclude. For now, we would like to thank you for coming before the Commission to tell us your story.

Thank you very much Mr Ngxokela.

MR REDPATH: Mr Chairperson, I represent certain of the people implicated by this previous witness. If I've understood the translation correctly, he has subsequently increased the number of persons as alleged perpetrators, to seven.

That is why I have said I represent certain of them. My position, our position in regard to this witness' evidence is the same as in regard to the previous group of witnesses.

CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much Mr Redpath.

MR REDPATH: As the Commission pleases.

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