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DR ALLY: ... not yet arrived. I just want to check if he is here. He is the next witness. Has he arrived? It does not appear so Your Grace so I am going to call.

CHAIRPERSON: Kleinbooi Mothoa are you around inside the hall? I think, you are too cultured man. You should ...

DR ALLY: Your Grace David Tijane is coming to speak on behalf of his son who was a victim of the abduction in January from Moutse and Wynand Malan is going to both assist him also administer the oath, David of his son.

CHAIRPERSON: Order please. We are very much grateful that you have managed to tolerate because you cannot hear properly. The sound is poor sometimes. Some of them does not speak loudly, but we would like to thank you. You will see him when he stands up to take the oath. You will see him.

MR MALAN: Mr Tijane, good day to you. Will you please just stand and take the oath before you start with your testimony.

DAVID TIJANE: (Duly sworn in, states).

MR MALAN: Thank you very much, you may be seated. Thank you.

MR TIJANE: I swear that I will tell the truth about my sons problems.

MR MALAN: Mr Tijane we know it will be very difficult for

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you. In fact this is a return to the place where your son died. Do not think that the audience will all know this, but your son actually died at this hospital according to the statement that you gave us. We will appreciate if, in your own way, you will tell us what happened and what knowledge you have of what happened. Please proceed.

INTERPRETER: Interpretation is not able because the speaker is not audible. The speaker is not audible.

CHAIRPERSON: (Xhosa not translated).

MR TIJANE: My son was visiting when the war started and he ran from my brother's place. He met the police and they arrested him. They started beating him up and they put him at the back of the lorry. They took them to the Ndebeles. They beat them up and they spent the night and brought them back the next day. They dropped them right on the street and he could not walk. They transported him by wheelbarrow. I took him back to the hospital.

When we arrived at the hospital it was very full, but they attended to us. They took him by ambulance. He was hospitalised and I left for home. His brothers came back from the Ndebeles and they wanted to find out actually what happened. When the brother came back from him to report to me he told me that the younger brother passed away here at the hospital. Now I could not do anything, I was helpless.

I do not have too many things to say. We gave a long statement to the Commission. That is why I am only saying my statement now shortly because we already submitted our statement. I do not have anything more to say. My witnesses are around this people. They all know that my son passed away during the conflict in the Imbokhoto tribe and they buried him. That is my only problem.

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MR MALAN: Mr Tijane, thank you very much. You would not mind responding to, maybe, one or two questions? Will that be okay if I ask you one or two questions?

MR TIJANE: That is okay sir.

MR MALAN: We had earlier evidence here, I think it is the same night. I just want to make sure, by Mr Simon Mahlangu where he gave evidence to us that he went to the Siyabuswa Hall, but left that night, returned the next day. You heard him speak. Was this the same incident?

MR TIJANE: They slept there and came back in the morning. Then when he arrived he was unable to walk. That is when we take him to the hospital.

MR MALAN: Right. Do you have any other information? You gave evidence and we did read your long statement which you talk of. We see there that you said that the conflict was sparked be the refusal of the Moutse people to be incorporated in KwaNdebele. Do you have any other closer information as to what actually happened? Again, you heard Mr Mahlangu talk and he said that there were some attacks by youngsters on some of the senior people the previous day and that this was a reaction. Do you have any knowledge of that or do you have any other theory to share with us as to how this happened, that the abduction came about?

MR TIJANE: The people were camping the whole night at Motete. Then at that night they were waiting and they put ashes on their faces. When they attacked the Motete village they knew each other by identifying themselves with the ash on their faces. They were able to identify their victims. That is then when they abducted our children to Siyabuswa. They took them at the Motete kraals.

MR MALAN: Why did they take them, Mr Tijane? Do you know

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why they took them?

MR TIJANE: I will not explain why. What I know is that there was a conflict, there was a fight. I did not know what happened before that. I did not know what sparked these conflicts between Imbokhoto and the Moutse people. The just came in our village and attacked all the community members and abducted the young boys. All of them came from Siyabuswa. They even hit me with a stone on the leg. I was nearer my house, but I went right inside to my next doors house. I did not go to my own house. All my children were outside the house.

MR MALAN: Mr Tijane, thank you very much. It is, as you have said, we have your full statement which we have read. We feel with you and we share with you, also, your grief especially where it is twice revisited both by your evidence and by the venue where your evidence has been given. I hand you back to the Chairperson.

CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Are there any further questions? Fazel Randera.

DR RANDERA: Mr Tijane, I am sure it is somewhere in your statement, but I have not been able to find it. How old was your son when he died?

MR TIJANE: I do not know exactly how old was he, but he was at school. He was a little bit grown up, but I do not know how old was he. So I will not exactly know how old was he.

DR RANDERA: Mr Tijane, that is fine. We will get that information. My other question is did you ever make a charge at the police station about your son's death?

MR TIJANE: I did not lay a charge there. I did not lay a charge.

DR RANDERA: Thank you.

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MR MANTHATA: I will try to ask you to understand because I heard when the Mathebe's father and I even heard that in the Ndebele communities or the youth from the Ndebele communities. I do not know by so doing you are displaying anger or are you just saying those people are from that area? I would try to understand that. Do you feel, are you in sympathy or are you in anger with those people?

MR TIJANE: I display the pain I have suffered after the loss of my son.

MR MANTHATA: Is the pain, are you talking about the pain from the Ndebele people or are you talking the pain directly from the death of your son?

MR TIJANE: My pain is that Motete community, in that Motete community many people were assaulted, but my son was assaulted and died. That is the pain I am showing.

MR MANTHATA: That is clear. We thank you, but I thought maybe you are speaking of hatred. I thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: Joyce Seroke.

MS SEROKE: Mr Tijane, you say your son was at school when this incident happened. Was he a member of a certain political party or a political organisation at school?

MR TIJANE: No, he was not a member of any political organisation, no. I disagree, he was not a member of any political organisation.

CHAIRPERSON: We do not have enough words to strengthen you and comfort you because one would be able to say those are saying this because it is better with the lives. They did not suffer this pain, but we still say to you, may God be the one who would be able to anoint you with His Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit would be able to bind your wounds and even your families wounds. We sympathise with

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you for what you have experienced and now the nation is sympathising with you. That is why we have this Truth Commission where people like you are able to testify that the whole nation would be able to say we sympathise with you of what has happened. We hope that the pain you have by the death of your son was not out of nothing, was something which bore fruits that today we are people. We are able to govern ourselves.

Yes, you suffer from that pain, but you know that when you are in war there are those who are going to fall, there are those who are going to survive. We ask you that you will be one of those who would say, yes, we were hurt, but we are people who are now liberated. We thank you very much sir.

MR TIJANE: Yes, if the soldier has died in war, is there no reimbursement?

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that is what we are trying, that all of us would be able to join hands with you so that many people have made you hurt in different ways, others were imprisoned, others went into exile in other nations, others were killed. Then today we said we want to hear the evidence of what exactly has happened so that we will be able to see how can we help each other.

MR TIJANE: I do not know that if that is true there is nothing I can say further, but the others must know that I feel pain by the death of my son. After that I started to have a heart problem. Then I said my son out of all the children, why my son died. I even nearly committed suicide. One man came to comfort me, came to advice me. So that person has helped me. I decided even to commit suicide. Even now when I am thinking of my son my heart is sore.

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CHAIRPERSON: If you are not a person, you could not feel that pain. That feeling shows that you are a person and we are trying in a witness, we are trying to heal that wound. Thank you sir.

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