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MR ERNEST SOTSU: Good morning. I prefer to express myself in English.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Sotsu I see you have brought two young people with you. Can you please introduce them to us so we can welcome them as well.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: On the extreme right is Vuyane, my grandson. Next to him is Vuse who is a younger brother to him. Also my grandson.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you Mr Sotsu. I welcome both Vuyane and Vuse. Welcome to them. Mr Sotsu we are going to April, sorry 3rd July 1991. You are going to tell us about a tragic even that took place in your life and for this community and for this nation. You have the time to speak in your own words freely and my colleagues and myself afterwards I am going to be leading any questions that may come out of your statement but my colleagues will also want to pose questions to you. So I give you the time now. Mr Sotsu one more thing. I am being a bit sleepy this morning. Will you just stand to take the oath.

MR ERNEST SOTSU (s.s.): I will start by giving my historical, political background and events that led to the triple murder of my family at the hands of the perpetrators or violence in the Vaal as from the 3rd July 1991. Firstly I joined the African National Congress in 1949, in the Eastern Cape, and remained a committed member to date. I

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have engaged in the liberation struggle against white domination ever since. In the period between 1960 to 1983 I have been engaged in the underground activities of the then banned ANC in the Vaal and surrounding areas where I recruited youth for ANC armed struggle. When the Vaal Civic Association was formed in the Vaal and subsequently affiliated to the United Democratic Front, I emerged from underground and joined it. The VCA, that is the Vaal Civic Association, was strongly opposed to the apartheid black councillors. In 1984 it launched a total rent boycott, which resulted to the Vaal riots, which claimed many lives and damage of property. As a result of police harassment, killings and arrests of VCA members and youth, I escaped police and I went once more underground, as MK/ANC local operative. My mission took me to various surrounding countries, including Lesotho, Botswana, Transkei homeland and others. Transkei then was led by the Matanzima brothers. Finally, in August 1986 I was arrested and detained at De Deur for four months under Section 29 of Terrorism. I was then transferred to Umtata in Transkei for further interrogation and detention for a year before I was charged and sentenced to eight years imprisonment. That was in 1989. Early. I was released in November 1989 by the Transkei military government, with five other political leaders in line with all ANC political prisoners who were being released at that time before Mandela emerged from prison. Back in the Vaal after my release I rejoined the VCA working in conjunction with the mass democratic movement. This earned me the wrath of the apartheid police once more who trailed me since then. After the unbanning of ANC, IFP made a rally in Sebokeng Zone 7 on the 22nd July

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1990. And as a result people were killed when Inkatha attacked the location and Sebokeng hostel in the evening that day. More than 20 people were killed, secondly on the 3rd 1990 Inkatha members attacked Sebokeng hostel once more. About 23 people were killed. I was called by telephone by hostel comrades to come in the morning through Comrade M Hunge. On arrival I saw dead bodies all around pointed to me. Together with other ANC and Cosatu comrades we approached the then Colonel Van Niekerk and another high ranking police whose name I have forgotten not to rescue Inkatha led by Qozo now a member of parliament, who were surrounded and cornered inside hostel 3 block. We said they should wait until the senior ANC members from Shell House to come and see for themselves those killers but Colonel Van Niekerk and other police called SADF to assist and rescue Inkatha. When SADF arrived it opened fire without the slightest provocation. During the pandemonium the IFP members were rescued by police and taken away. An additional 15 people in the hostel were killed during that shooting. Therefore afterwards a Stratford Commission was appointed. I then gave evidence before the Commission whereby I pointed out that police were in total collusion with the IFP perpetrators of violence. I was threatened right in court by the Inkatha members. I reported the matter to the police and nothing was done. The only thing I was told was that anybody who touches Inkatha is touching trouble. My late wife was also - that is Constance Sotsu, was also intimidated by the then late Khetise Kheswa who I did not even know and in his company was someone known as Vananda (Mtwana Zulu) who was staying at Kwamadala hostel where some of the perpetrators of violence were harboured by

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Iscor company, a sort of a parastatal. This was reported to the police but the police did not take the charges seriously. They dropped them and then did nothing thereafter. On the 3rd July 1991, whilst attending the African National Congress in Durban, my family was attacked. My wife Constance, my daughter Margaret and a grandson Sabatha were shot dead with AK47's at close range. They were crowded together in a lavatory which was pointed to me thereafter on my arrival in Durban. They were brutally murdered by Khetise and other murderers and faceless killers. Two of my grandchildren, Vuyani and Vusi narrowly escaped death but were seriously injured with bullet wounds and as a result they were kept in the intensive care of Sebokeng hospital for two months. They also underwent you know some form of surgery, operations. After this incident police spokesperson in the name of Jooste in Pretoria issued a statement through the press that I had refused police protection. This I denied and I said there was nothing like that but it was blatant lies as far as I was concerned. I called on the investigating officer at that time for an identification parade and I told him that I am prepared to put my neck on the block, I will bring my two children who were recently out of hospital to come and identify Khetise who was then known as a result of that attack at my place and other places as a vile monster and who was always in the company of the police and using highly expensive cars, cars which were given to him and others by police. I want to make it clear here that my aim was that these children should disappoint the police by identifying this vile monster, as nothing but a murderer who is in the police payroll. They successfully identified him among the other

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four murderers who killed my family on the night of the 3rd. Whilst clearly I was there in the police room a phone came which came through to the police who was there conducting identification parade. This phone was coming from a high ranking police by name of Van Niekerk, the same Van Niekerk that I have mentioned several times, asking whether these two children have succeeded to identify anybody. The police who was with me there at that point in time said they have succeeded to identify Kheswa clearly and they made no mistake. Little did this high ranking man knew that I was in that room. He was then arrested and given bail. I still don't know that bail it was below even R200, although he had slaughtered my children. He appeared thereafter in court in Vereeniging charged for triple murder. He pleaded with the Judges there that he has no advocate and he wanted the case to be remanded. This was done on condition that he gets the advocate. The next thing a week before the second sitting of the case I learned that the same Khetise Kheswa died in the hands of his handlers in custody. Something that surprised me a great deal, why was he in custody then. But all what I knew and what came to me was that he had said that he cannot be so disappointed that now he was going to face a triple murder and without an advocate and the police, I understand, got hold of him with the understanding that they must tell him that he must not talk too much, which I think is one of the main reasons which actually led to his death in custody. Now the question I want to ask is exactly who was behind the killing of my family. Who were the planners, what was the motive. I therefore have no doubt whatsoever that Khetise Kheswa was a tool which was used by the so-called third force, I personally say police. I would HRV/211 be happy/...

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be happy if those who were behind the perpetration of violence in the Vaal and the terrible killings that took place, not only of my family, that they can come forward and confess but now on my part how do I really forget and forgive the people who are still faceless, who are still not known, who are still out of reach of anybody. I just can't understand. I am a man of faith to say the least. I am also a minister of religion. I am a man with a B.A. spiritual degree. To some it would sound very unfamiliar for a man with a spiritual B.A. degree. Born again. I am prepared to forget and forgive, only if those perpetrators could forward and say I am the police who was behind the whole thing. I am a police who was paying Khetise. Khetise was in our payroll. We are the people who told him to go and kill Sotsu's children, the reason being the political background of Sotsu as he escaped prison before he could even finalise his eight year sentence in Umtata. Thank you. COMMISSIONER: Thank you Mr Sotsu. You have said a great deal and right at the onset from the Commission we want to still show our sympathy and empathy with you and your grandsons sitting there. I am sure it can't be easy for them and for yourself. If you will, sir, I am going to actually now proceed to ask several questions and then I will hand over to our chairperson. I want to actually start by saying that yes, we are listening to the human rights violations that were committed against your family but we also tasked with developing as complete a picture and therefore at times I may actually change historical periods if you don't mind. Can I just come back to your lady wife Constance, is that right? Sorry, Constance, yes. Was she involved in political activity herself?

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MR ERNEST SOTSU: Constance, my late wife, was a member of the ANC Womens League.

COMMISSIONER: And in your statement you say you reported these threats to the police and so did your wife. Besides the statement made after the fatal killings by the police were you given any protection at all?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I was never given any protection. In fact I did not even see the reason why should I get protection from the people who were aiming to kill me.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Sotsu you have said yourself that - and you have mentioned where and when your political activity started in this area, we are looking at a period of intense volatile activity as you yourself actually said in your statement. Was there protection provided by - I mean we are talking of protection units within the Vaal by political movements at that time. Was there protection given to you by the ANC or the Mass Democratic Movement, and your family?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: During that period on my arrival from prison right in Boipatong there was a youth league and that youth league in Boipatong were the people who were protecting me but they had no arms.

COMMISSIONER: Can you just tell us how old your wife Constance was at the time of her death, and the other people who were killed.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: She was about 40 years, she was born in 1936 and you can just cut it out of that.

COMMISSIONER: So she was - okay. And Margaret?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Margaret was over 30. She was born in 1958.

COMMISSIONER: And Sabatha?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Sabatha was two year old. He was on the

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third year.

COMMISSIONER: What about Vusi and Vuyani, I know they are here today. How old were they at the time?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Vuyani was 12 years, he was entering the 13th year. The other one was 10 years, he was entering 11th year.

COMMISSIONER: Okay. I just want to ask about the injuries that both Vusi and Vuyani suffered. Can you tell us something about that.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I think the Commissioner will pardon me if I would say the facts will speak for themselves because those injuries are still very visible even now. One Vuyani on the extreme right he has got his body from here round down riddled with bullets. He is still having a bullet in him right now. And then Vusi had a bullet on his left foot right above here in the joint of the foot which went down. He now is even limping right now.

COMMISSIONER: If I can ask, sir, you said that the children were asked to identify Khetise. Was that done with them standing behind a two way mirror or were they asked to go and identify clearly in a row?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I was asked that question before the identification parade as I said that I was prepared to put my head on the block, my neck so to say. I said to them I want them to identify them visibly and this was done so. They went to the man.

COMMISSIONER: Now I just want to come to the charges against this gentleman Khetise. Who else was charged with him? Was he alone in this or were there other people charged?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Khetise was alone. That is the only man

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who was alone because the police did not want to reveal the other people who were there. The children said they saw other people there but those people were not known to them.

COMMISSIONER: You also mentioned this person Vananda Zulu. Can you just tell us a little more about him.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: The so-called Vananda Zulu, shall I say so-called Mtwana, baby, he was a neighbour to me. When I came out of prison I found this strange man in my street. Little did I know who he was until one day he stepped in my house unknown to me and saying that he was being threatened by the youth league. So he wanted me to intervene. I asked him who he was. He then told me he was the so-called Vananda Zulu. Then I said I am the member of the African National Congress and I will talk to the youth. Go to your place and sleep in peace if you have no problem. So that is how I know. Within a week he was fetched by the police and accompanied and taken to what came to be known Kwamadala hostel. That was a hostel which was already you know disused by Iscor. But now that, I mean Iscor at the beginning of Inkatha activities in the Vaal started now to prepare this hostel, renovating it, meaning that they are preparing it for occupation and Vananda Zulu was among the first to get in there and then after that Zone 7 rally that is where the group after killing people was taken there to join the same Vananda Zulu. And it became now a harbour for criminals.

COMMISSIONER: Now you have spoken about, in your statement, first of all today you have said that Mr Khetise was part of a gang but at the same time in your statement you say he was a member of Inkatha. Now is that a perception?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Yes, let me just put this clearly. From

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the beginning the so-called Khetise was just a gangster interested in stealing cars somewhere in Zone 7. That is the story I gathered after the killing of my wife and thereafter he started now to have bad blood with the youth in that particular area and he sought refuge from Inkatha. Then he became now a member of Inkatha.

COMMISSIONER: I just want to stay on that. Again in your statement - so you are saying you only became aware of Mr Khetise after the killing of your family?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Good.

COMMISSIONER: So this point that you make in your statement that he was always seen in the presence of police in the Vaal region, especially at scenes where violent political clashes took place, this is post the killing of your family. Or is this what you found out from people?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: You see earlier when this Khetise started to appear in Boipatong I didn't know at all about him. I knew, I only knew a bit from the children who told me that there was an element called Khetise, a bad element. Then I didn't take this into consideration as such and they said he is always going with this Vananda Zulu and company. They were threatening the youth. Now I became serious therefore after the killing of my children. After getting the report before that he was with Vananda Zulu during one day before I left for the conference, whereby they intimidated my wife asking my wife about my whereabouts and that if I do return home that night I should report to Kwamadala where I am to appear before the tribunal of Inkatha and account.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Mr Sotsu I have a few more questions. I am sorry for posing so many questions. I want to go back now to your emerging as a leader in the Vaal from

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underground activity in the '84 period and I suppose I am coming back now to this complete picture that we are trying to develop. You said quite clearly earlier on that the Vaal Civic Association was opposed to the apartheid councils that were created. We heard yesterday about some of the incidences that took place during that time. I wonder whether you would like to actually throw light on that period.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Surely I am prepared to throw light on that period because I was - that is a right period for me, of which my political activity were already matured. I shall simply say that UDF was launched in 1983 and therefore the VCA was also founded and then it got affiliated to the UDF. Then at that time there were these councils which were being introduced and there were elections that were conducted during that period and that is a time when certain councillors were elected not by the will of the people, they were elected by approximately 3 per cent of the population of the Vaal and that was because the UDF and its affiliate were opposed to these councils because these were apartheid councils. In fact they were going to do the dirty work of oppression, assisting to oppress their own people. It was on that basis that we hated them, we were opposed to them vehemently. Not physically. Take it that way.

COMMISSIONER: Well I was just going to put that question to you. Did that mean opposition also in terms of removing these people?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Not necessarily to remove them physically. Not that. But when you say you want to remove a person you want to remove him from that structure. That structure. So that you don't recognise that structure and that

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structure must be disbanded.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Sotsu I am now going back to the 1990's. When one reads documents, the newspapers and listening even to you today, the climate that seems to be appearing is that here was a struggle between the community and the IFP. Yesterday even when we listened to a witness from the 1960 killing at Sharpeville one of the ladies clearly said that when they were going to work they were told that if you don't go to the police station and demonstrate you will be killed. Now I want to actually also understand that atmosphere that was created because people were living in this community. They didn't just turn up at Kwamadala. How much intimidation or to put it in another way if people were not for the struggle they must be against the struggle, and how much of that actually went on in that period that we are talking about.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: If you are referring to the period between 1990 and 1993 somehow, are you referring to that?

COMMISSIONER: Yes, I am particularly referring to that period.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Good. The impression which was brought to my mind by the activities of the Inkatha which wanted to you know bring its image through dirty means was that they wanted to make themselves to be felt to organise by means of the gun and a spear and cause fear. What they were doing they knew that they were not an organisation which was a political organisation per se. They were just a tribal minded organisation which or whose intention at that point in time was to make people to understand that Zulus and only Zulus have got the power and strength to force people to toe their line and therefore that was a way of building their

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organisation.

COMMISSIONER: Mr Sotsu my last question. You said earlier on that you are a man of the faith but at the same time you recruited people for the armed struggle. Is there a contradiction in this?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I think you should understand very well that there is practically nothing which is wrong with that. I am coming to clarify this in this manner. As a man of God a man of God shouldn't be a coward. Moses, Joshua, I can mention a lot from the Biblical point of view, that they led the people with the word of God but where clearly there were enemies on their way ....

COMMISSIONER: Order please. I did ask the audience when we started that don't have your own comments when the witnesses are testifying. Thank you.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I had not finished. I was just interrupted. I wanted to make it a little bit clear to the Commission that there is nothing wrong with a minister, a real man of God, to fight for the rights of the underdogs. Down trodden people. At that point in time there were not so many opportunists as there are today. There were real fighters, real people who were interested to liberate .... (nothing more recorded on tape). .... who wanted to fight and eliminate white domination and therefore a real minister of religion would never have agreed with the principle of white domination. It is on this basis that Ernest Sotsu, the speaker so to say, joined the liberation movement and became one of the so-called Moses' of this time.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much.

DR ALI: Mr Sotsu I am not going to keep you much longer but

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just one or two questions. The first one is about defence units, self defence units. Were you yourself actually involved in self defence units and what were your views about these units.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: As a member of the underground revolutionary movement led by the African National Congress when I emerged from the prison the atmosphere was still very, very volatile to say the least. The police were still harassing the youth, harassing all people who were inclined towards the liberation movement. Therefore there was one way in which we could live and that was when you back into the country, those who were coming from exile and from jail, that there should be these defence units. Defence units were meant, among other things, to defend the lives of those leaders who were coming back into the country. It was not the intention of the movement that defence units should themselves be the killers. Theirs was to defend their leaders and the community in particular where clearly there were cases similar to that which emerged when Inkatha started to make its swords and spears and guns to be felt in the Vaal.

DR ALI: There are though accusations, Mr Sotsu, from people involved in other sides of the conflict that self defence units themselves would often get involved in violence, in conflict and would themselves also be not only defending but often also attacking. How would you respond to that?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: I would simply say that defence units which you are referring to, some of them were people who infiltrated the structures of the defence units of the African National Congress and decided to confuse the issue by doing the opposite. They were not disciplined. They

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were people really who were there clearly to destabilise the situation.

DR ALI: Do you think there is still a role for self defence units presently?

MR ERNEST SOTSU: No, there is no need for them anyway.

DR ALI: Thank you Mr Sotsu.

PROFESSOR MEIRING: Mr Sotsu the Truth Commission or the Truth and Reconciliation Commission is tasked by the Act that was promulgated by parliament to do a number of things. Firstly to find the truth of what has been happening in South Africa over so many years, to give the opportunity to people to come and testify and bring their stories. One of the most difficult tasks is the matter of reparation and rehabilitation, how to make proposals to restore the dignity of the people, how to help them forward after the harrowing things that happened to them. You have been telling us your story and it is a very painful story on a personal level, your wife and the other family members who were killed. My question is what now, what can you propose, how can you help us to find solutions for reconciliation? I have very high admiration for you who said that if the perpetrators would come to the fore you will find the strength and the faith and the grace of God to forgive and to forget and that is a wonderful thing. That is what the Truth Commission is all about. My question is is that also possible within the community where you live. And then the second question after that have you given it some thought whether there are other alternatives to reparation, other symbolic acts that we can propose to parliament to restore the dignity of the people in this area.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Given an opportunity I would have used all

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my political background experience but if still there is an opportunity I am prepared to go all out as an old cadre to help and assist that there should be peace in this country but that should be based on the following conditions. I am still not satisfied at this point in time by evidence which can be brought forward by the police who I personally know that were always around where Inkatha was, that were always around when our people were being slaughtered by Inkatha at night in the hostel and everywhere. Those police, all of them have been transferred in this area, including Colonel Van Niekerk and others. I can still go back to my books and bring those names. If those people can come forward and be truthful and try to be faithful not only to the government but to God to make it clear that surely we were committed in this, we deceived the people of the Vaal, we deceived them and we led to the fact that they should be killed in big numbers and our aim was to promote the IFP, we had a wrong perception that Buthelezi would be a man of tomorrow in this country who will rule it. If they can come and clarify that perception and say we are sorry for all those innocent souls that were killed we were a third force, the people who were directed from above through the dirty tricks you know fashion, that we must confuse the black community in order to kill itself so that this violence should be there up to when I don't know. If those people could come forward and this information is not only extracted from these innocent people, these people who were victims, these people who were peaceful in the past, even before the advent of the white person in this country up to this very day. These people who are being used, I would be very happy if those police could come before this Commission, those who were here in

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Vereeniging and say we were there during the first rally of the Inkatha at Zone 7. We escorted Inkatha through Zone 7. When people were being attacked we went into the hostel where so many people were left dead and we were there and we were part of those victims. We were smearing our faces with black things so that we should look black not white and we did a lot to shoot the people through the windows of the hostel and will kill those in (indistinct). Sotsu is prepared tomorrow to stand before them and stretch his hand and says I pardon you.

PROFESSOR MEIRING: Thank you. Thank you very much.

COMMISSIONER: Thank you very much Mr Sotsu for your testimony this morning. You have given a grim picture of the conflict that was prevalent in this area. We are saddened by the loss of so many people in this area that you mentioned, particularly the loss of your wife Constance, your daughter Margaret and your grandson Sabatha. Vusi and Vuyani are amongst our today and we cannot imagine the trauma through which they have gone through as young people. We would recommend that you use the services of our reparation committee and meet our briefers here who will help and refer the young people for some support systems. We note the allegations you have made against the police. Unfortunately they are not here to give their side of the story but you can rest assured that the Truth Commission is going to address this situation. We commend your participation in the Stratford Commission, which looked into the violence in this area, even though you were not satisfied with the manner in which this Commission conducted its investigations. We have taken note of the allegations regarding the police and the request that you have made and

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we in the TRC have an investigation unit and we will refer all these requests and allegations to our investigating unit so that they can probe these questions. The TRC has the power to subpoena people to come forth and we note the names that you have quoted today and we will do our best in trying to expose the truth that will bring about reconciliation here. We rely on the strong faith that you have expressed and we hope that you will be also part of the process of reconciliation in this area. Thank you very much.

MR ERNEST SOTSU: Thank you.

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