MR ALLY: ... detention, assault and torture that happened to you, before you give your testimony which Mr Manthata is going to help you with, I am just going to ask if you would please take the oath with Commissioner Lyster.

MBIZA MBOKOTA: (sworn states)

MR MANTHATA: Mbiza, you are welcome, you are welcome, feel at home. You are to tell us about what happened to you and your fellow members of the ANC youth league in 1992.

Can you go on with what happened?

MR MBOKOTA: I arrived at home, I was coming from school at Turflop in 1991. At home I mean the area itself was a little bit behind about the struggle and we was started organising ourselves. In forming the branch of the ANC started enemy between us and the nearest police station, Sasalam police station, including the tribal authority.

There is so many things which we used to quarrel with with the tribal authority and about holding meetings, they used to not allow us.

While we were still quarrelling about these issues, we said to ourselves we are still going to move forward. In 1992 I was still a Chairperson of the ANC Youth League - I was a Chairperson for the Youth League for two successive years. There was an accident in one policeman's home in Menga Village, this policeman's name is Noqi Tsahoge, his house was burnt down during the night.

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The following day in the morning, it was February 1992, we heard about the arson because the village is so small. During the following day, during the night police went to arrest all the members of the Youth League, they were detained at Sasalam police station.

Early the following day they also went back to arrest other people. When I started reading the list of people who were arrested there were ten. I found out that all of these were members of the ANC Youth League Committee.

Then we realised that they were trying to destroy the workforce of the African National Congress. I was a teacher at a high school. I went to the police station to visit them, to pay them a visit.

In the charge office they asked me who I am coming to visit them, I said to them I am coming to visit them because some of them are my relatives, but all of them who were detained are members of the ANC Youth League of which I was the Chairperson.

While I was still there, one of my comrades, comrade Moses Mahone was handcuffed, was chained in the legs and I could see that the comrade was injured.

And I said, because I was angry, I said to them if you don't allow me to see these people, you are afraid that I am going to see what happened to them, because this person, the last day I saw him, he was not like this.

But I could see that now he was injured. Then I argued with the police in the charge office, I said to them okay, stay with them, I am going. While I was walking, I went to another butchery which was next to the police station, and I think they thought I saw one of the comrades who was arrested and no one knew that the people were being

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assaulted.

It was the third day when I went there to see them. They sent a certain policeman in the name of Richard Madebale, he came to the butchery and said there is some other things that they want to clear up with you, the police in the police station, just come back.

I said okay, since I'm here in the butcher and as I've heard how they were arrested, just leave me here. What I am going to do, I will buy meat and braai it for those people who were arrested, because I know that you are going to arrest me, so that I get inside the police station with the meat I am going to buy here.

He realised that he could not argue with me, he went back. I was together with Stuart Mabangese who was a member of the Committee, but he was not arrested by then. We followed them to the charge office.

When we arrived in the charge office they said just come in. They took us to the office of the then warrant officer, Chibambo. They said, oh, it is you. They took us to another office because those comrades who were assaulted together, if you talk about office number 6, they know what kind of an office it is.

We went to office number 6, we found that there are police who were using nicknames, they are still using those nicknames. There is Mburi, Malumbu. Warrant officer Chibambo was instructing them to see what to do with us.

When we looked around in the office, we could see that it is difficult to be in that office, there were blood stains all over and sticks, you could not understand what those weapons were.

Because we realised that all the police are just taking VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST

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all those things and assault people and they want to make you suffer.

They said to me Mbiza, give a statement, write a statement here and tell us about, because you are a teacher, you're a good writer, write a statement and tell us about the meeting which decided that you are going to burn Noqi Tsahoge's house.

They said that you know that Noqi Tsahoge's house is burnt, I said no, i no. They said you and the others who had been arrested here, you are the people who burnt down the house and I said no, I can't write a statement.

They insisted that I should write that on this particular day, yourself, they read a list for me, all the people who were arrested, they said I asked them how come I shall give a statement talking about a meeting and the names of the people who held meetings for the African National Congress in the Province.

They said this list were given by Headmen Cali who is still a Headman there and Esminge. He said we are the people who should be arrested because we burnt down the house. I refused to give him a statement.

They put a bag on my head, they started assaulting me, sjamboking me. The hardest hit which also took me to hospital is something which was very heavy, which hit me on my shoulder. Seeing some other articles there, there was a very big wood which was there, I think it is the one which hit me on the shoulder.

Because I knew that I could give a statement in court, I said just put me in the cells, I am not going to give a statement. They took me to the cell. I stayed in the cell for four days and they said to me since you are the

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Chairperson of the ANC Youth League, you must be alone in the cell.

They put me in solitary confinement for three consecutive days. The team of warrant officer Chibambo, Noqi Tsahoge, Constable Tsahoge, this was the team which used to come to my cell and start torturing me.

This is the team which I used to say this is a better one, this is a bad one. That one, if they come there if warrant officer Chibambo started greeting me, when they close there warrant Noqi when they left the office, the others will come and start assaulting me, forcing me to give a statement. I said I am not going to give a statement.

The others outside in the other cells had some windows who could shout at each other to find out how we are. What I realised, when we greeted firstly for the first time, they said are you not badly injured and then I realised that these people were badly injured.

And then I told them that I'm just feeling some pains here and there, and then they told me that some were taken to hospital, they are back. We were 16 in total so they were calling names, that this was taken to hospital and that one was taken to hospital.

From there most of the people heard that we were arrested, those who were left behind, because they arrested 16 and then they ran away to go and inform our Zonal Chairperson, comrade Robert Malabu who is now the speaker of the Provincial Legislature and then they told him that there is something which happened in our Youth League.

And the arranged the MEC, now who is the MC for Constitutional Affairs who was still a lawyer working for the Human Rights and then we stayed there for nine days, I

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think so, before we were released.

On the 7th day we went to court, we applied for bail and it failed. We went back to the cells. Sometimes they used to come and torture us. Some of them were police, they were coming from Maheso, they have passed standard 10 from Maheso.

Some of them were torturing me, some of them were afraid to do that because I taught them. Those were the people who were in the team who used to take us to hospital for check ups.

Comrade (indistinct) applied for bail and it was successful, we were released on R200-00 bail per person and we attended the court case for four days, I think so. The fourth one was the last day, remanding the case, saying pending the Attorney General's decision.

During that time, many people used to come from the villages and the students used to come, because some of them whom I was arrested with, were students so they even stopped going to school and some stopped going to work until they realised that many people are coming to attend the court case.

One day we went there, we said we were going to court, they said they wanted to control people. They failed to control them. We tried to assist them to control the people and they started throwing us with teargas canisters, (indistinct).

After that they just came to take us to go to court and then they remanded the case again. Then for the last day, they said the case was withdrawn. We were never told the reasons, who's wrong, who's right, they never told us, the truth never came out.

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We only heard rumours that Noqi Tsahoge's rondavel, they used a generator, there was no electricity by then in Atmenga, they used a generator which used petrol and I think they said it is the thing which caused the fire.

What happened when the house started burning, his wife's panty was burnt and the buttocks and then they ran away and the house was burnt just like that.

We were not satisfied about the case itself, because we were assaulted, because at school I was working with school children, some of them are relatives to the police, some of them are relatives to Noqi, who made us to be arrested and we are staying in the same area.

It destroyed my relationship with the school children while I was teaching, it was difficult for me from that year until 1995 and I realised that I was mentally retarded, psychologically I was affected, so even my teaching was affected because some times, I mean I felt some pain and then I decided to retire because there is no follow up in the tribal.

The tribal authority was after me, I worked for the civic association as a secretary, I was harassed again and then I realised that the best thing for me is to leave the teaching profession.

What I want to say before this Commission is that those people whom were together, we tried to arrange that we shall come together to testify, because some of them were badly injured. For myself I was physically injured on my shoulder and psychologically and on my spinal cord I am still having some pains.

Some of them their hands are now not functioning, some of them their legs were badly affected, so they are worried

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that they should have known about the Truth Commission was coming here so that they should come here and give their evidence, so if possible if you can tell me if they are allowed to come in and give evidence.

MR MANTHATA: Thank you, Mbiza. Yes, giving evidence is not a problem. They can just make the statements, then we shall process their statements, they would be given the treatment that any other statement has been given, whether people spoke to their statements or not.

So you can tell them to get into the process of writing those statements. Okay, you are talking about the problems that the ANC Youth League had with the tribal authorities. Are these problems still going on are you in the process of solving them?

MR MBOKOTA: The problem between the ANC Youth League and the tribal authority is still there.

Somehow some of the RDP projects, when they arrived in the village, they didn't come through the civic, there are some projects which are managed by the tribal authority. They even say somewhere that those people who were in the ANC Youth League, they are not going to have access to go and work in those projects and truly speaking they are not getting that access to benefit from the RDP.

And if the tribal authority is still running the projects of the RDP, those people are still going to suffer for being members of the African National Congress Youth League.

MR MANTHATA: Are you saying that, where does the tribal authority get the manpower for those projects if it does not get them from the youth right around in the community?

MR MBOKOTA: What I can say is that the way the do it, the VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST

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youth itself is not a youth of the ANC alone, the Smoqoi Progressive Party that time and I still believe that residue of Smoqoi is still there and while projects are arranged, this projects are arranged in using the workforce of the Smoqoi Progressive Party, leaving the ANC Youth League outside, so these projects are being led by those people who were Smoqoi.

Those people who are known that this members of the ANC Youth League, they are not being covered by the RDP projects and in most cases they are ignored.

MR MANTHATA: Mr Mbokota, because one of the prime objectives of the Truth and Reconciliation is to promote national unity so one is just giving that hint that there need to be a reconciliation or a working together between all those forces.

Next my question would be when they got arrested and you had to make a follow up of these people, why didn't you instruct at least a lawyer who would have accompanied you to the police station where perhaps the possibility of your detention would have been minimized?

MR MBOKOTA: I didn't have a lawyer that's why a lawyer was arranged for us from the Lawyers for Human Rights.

MR MANTHATA: By the way, what period are we talking about? Are we talking about the period of 1993 or 1994?

MR MBOKOTA: 1992, we are talking about 1992, according to the statement.

MR MANTHATA: Yes, I think we have, yes, the best we can do is as we have said, could you tell your fellow comrades to bring me their statements, secondly could you, now that you have even see how ridiculous the allegation that Noqi's house was burnt by the comrades, is, I think there should be VENDA HEARING TRC/NORTH WEST

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a little bit of accommodation and understanding.

You can appreciate that this is not going to be an overnight thing, and we are grateful that you have given us the names of the police who made it difficult for you people, so this is as far as you can go.

I rest my case there and let me find out from my colleagues whether there are any further questions.

MR ALLY: Thank you very much Mr Mbokota, we've got your statement, we thank you for having come from - you have travelled all that way. It has been a very long day but we thank you for having eventually made it and we will certainly try to follow up on some of the issues.

Particularly in your case, the human rights violations which you suffered, the severe ill-treatment, the torture, the sjamboking and we will certainly be making recommendations.

As I've said to other witnesses on the need for the Government to take seriously the question of reparations and rehabilitations. People like you and others who suffered during the period that the Commission is looking at.

Thank you very much for having come and waiting so long. And I want to thank everybody who still remains behind. It has been a long day, we thank you for your support. The support you've shown to the witnesses, your patience, sometimes it was very difficult, we know with people struggling to get in.

We want to thank all of those who assisted as briefers, volunteers, to make this hearing possible. We want to thank the press, TV crew, it has been a long hard day for them. The cameras which they use, are quite heavy. To move around for so many hours. We want to thank the interpreters, we

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want to thank the police who have provided security for us as the Commission, also for looking after the premises and try to keep order, we know it is a bit difficult.

We want to thank the signer, it has been very hard for him and we want to say that the community here in Toyandu, the witnesses have issued a challenge to the Truth Commission, they said that you've come to listen to our stories, we've mentioned the names of those whom we believe were involved, we've mentioned the names of those who we believe are perpetrators, and we are saying to the Truth Commission, what are you going to do about that.

There are certain names which came up repeatedly, we all know them, Ramarighera, Manage, Ramoswana, Nesemari, Musuvua and we certainly are going to follow up on those names, that is a commitment that we can make to you.

As I said, we will ask them to come forward, if they don't accept the invitation, we do have powers to subpoena so that we can get the information that people have asked for to try and establish some of the truth.

Thank you once again, we will be coming to this part of the country again and we hope that people will be encouraged to make statements.

Could I ask that we stand for the last time, respect and acknowledgement of those victims who are still here, let us stand while they leave and if people want to end by singing the national anthem, that's fine, thank you once again.

Sorry, one final thing, if we can just make sure that we leave the boxes behind, these headsets through which you heard the interpretation, thank you.

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