Special Report Transcript Episode 69, Section 2, Time 06:55

The fact of the matter is that it is a well known fact that every adult, white, unless this can be denied in this house, every white South African in this room has been trained by the law – which I think was the conscription law. // Just for your information I was not so trained, I’d have never owned a gun, I don’t know even what it looks like. So you have a benefit over me. // Mr. Mkhwanazi it’s also a well known fact that thousands of white conscripts in fact refused to participate in the South African Defence Force. Some people in fact went to prison for fairly long periods precisely because they refused. It’s also a fairly well known fact, if we’re going to use that appellation, that very large numbers of members of the white community opposed that system of militarization and conscription. How does that fact bear with the notion that every single member of the white community would then fall within the definition of a legitimate target? // Those who were opposed were either in exile or in jail. // I was neither in exile nor in jail. // What we are trying to ascertain as a Commission is where does the buck stop? Who accepts final accountability? The very incidences that you refer to on page three which I’ve read out, let’s just confine ourselves to those because they’re quite specific: St James Church, King Williamstown golf club, Heidelberg Tavern. These were three specific incidences. In this case, was the political leadership at the highest level consulted prior to these attacks? And if not, in the aftermath of these did the political leadership have any objection or did they condone these incidences? // The structure of the Azanian People’s Liberation Army ensured that APLA always remained accountable to the political leadership. We mentioned it in the document that the top structure of the APLA leadership was the military commission. The members of the military commission were both members of the central committee and members of the high command. // When these attacks took place, before these attacks took place the political leadership was not informed. // The important incidents are those that affect white people. It’s unfortunate but it’s the perception that we have. The perception might be wrong, the perception might be right, but on a consistent basis we observed this in these hearings, that those incidents that involve white people are highlighted. And we are not making these observations because of a racist paradigm or racist attitude, it’s simply an observation that we make. I think here the specific examples that you want to concentrate upon Mr. Chairman is incidents of St James’s and the Amy Biehl ones. // The question, which was a simple one, remains unanswered. Was the leadership of the PAC aware of what took place in the incidents that it itself has brought to us. And if it only became subsequently aware of these incidents, did the leadership condone it? For right or for wrong reasons, there needs to be an answer to that.

Notes: Joe Mkhwanazi (PAC/APLA Military Commission); Alex Boraine (Truth Commissioner); Glen Goosen; Mike Muendane ; Glen Goosen ; Alex Boraine; Mbulelo Fihla (APLA Military Intelligence); Enoch Zulu (PAC/APLA Military Commission); Mike Muendane; Dumisa Ntsebeza (Truth Commissioner)

References: there are no references for this transcript