Special Report Transcript Episode 85, Section 2, Time 10:50

Let me just quickly before we lose this thread go back to Professor Giliomee. Professor, you talked about maybe we should have had trials, there should have been a continuation of that. In other words, a criminal judicial process. In other words we should have instead of amnesty; we should have charged these people and if found guilty they should go to jail instead of getting amnesty. But isn’t that really the main problem of that that you won’t have reconciliation at all. You’re talking about Nuremberg type trials, which is far more dangerous in terms of reconciliation, isn’t that true? // Listen I think the Nuremberg trial is simply a bogey that’s not very credible at all. There was never revolutionary victory in the country. You only institute Nuremberg type of trials when there’s a complete defeat of the other side. So I don’t think that was ever an option. But in terms of the truth - the courts of course are also not satisfactory - but what the Truth Commission tries to do is give you truth at a discount, they don’t establish the proper procedures for testing the truth and that’s my main objection to the Truth Commission. // Let’s just stay with that for a second, would you say that of the amnesty process also, which is a judicial process, where you have judges and you go through cross examination you have a full on judicial process; and since June last year, that’s the only stuff we’ve had with the Truth Commission is the amnesty process. Is that your objection with that process too? // Well I would say that I would have said that the Amnesty Commission was according to my perception - not a judicial person - was acting very much according to the spirit of the law until they gave collective secret collective amnesty to the ANC leadership. To me it’s incomprehensible and I believe that the National Party today has asked for the courts to set that aside. // The Truth Commission itself asked the courts to test it. // Because the Truth Commission has so postponed and sat on the whole issue that the National Party now today have decided to take legal action. If you look at one of the successful truth commissions was the one in Chile, but there was complete faith in the representativity of the commission because you had four of the old regime and four of the new regime. This one is totally skewed in favour of the ANC and secondly, these people in Chile performed their task free of charge, they didn’t have any income and now we have this kind of gravy train Truth Commissioners which all helps to sully the reputation of the TRC. // I think Professor before we move on I just have to point out one thing, the Truth Commission in Chile was a secret process, ours is on camera, ours is a wide, open process so there wasn’t much to criticize in the Chilean process because nobody knew what happened there.

Notes: Max du Preez; Herman Giliomee

References: there are no references for this transcript