VUSIMUSI PAULUS VILAKAZI: (sworn states)
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr Richard?
MR RICHARD: Thank you.
EXAMINATION BY MR RICHARD: Mr Vilakazi, you've been here all day and I ask you the question, have you heard what your previous co-applicants have said and do you understand what they have said?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, I heard.
MR RICHARD: Now do you confirm what they have said about your involvement in the various incidents and their own and the involvement of your co-applicants?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, I confirm that.
MR RICHARD: Now is there anything that you want to comment on about what they've said? Anything that you disagree with that you want to record your disagreement or anything where they've given too few details which you want to amplify and explain?
MR VILAKAZI: No.
MR RICHARD: Now your particular involvement was in the fifth incident and that was the killing of Mabisi Mazizi, do you remember when that incident happened and where it happened?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, I do recall.
MR RICHARD: When did it happen?
MR VILAKAZI: In 1987, August, at Zakele township.
MR RICHARD: Do you remember where in Zakele township?
MR VILAKAZI: At Jabavu Langa Street.
MR RICHARD: Now were you alone or were you with others?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, I was with others.
MR RICHARD: Who were there?
MR VILAKAZI: Mr Mnisi, he's now deceased, Papa Schoolboy Nkabinde, also deceased, ...(indistinct) also deceased, Jabulani Soko, he's still alive but I don't know his whereabouts and others whose names I cannot recall.
MR RICHARD: Now had you planned to kill Mr Mazizi before that day, or was it something that was decided only that day?
MR VILAKAZI: We had not planned anything in that regard that day, but we planned on the 3rd of January after the funeral of comrade Joel, that we were going to take action against any MG member that we were going to come across.
MR RICHARD: Now did you know Mr Mazizi?
MR VILAKAZI: Very well.
MR RICHARD: Was he associated with any organisation and with the Football Club?
MR VILAKAZI: He was a member of Easter Pirates MG.
MR RICHARD: How did you know that?
MR VILAKAZI: I knew this because we were always in conflict with them and he was in the forefront and he was playing a very crucial role in the conflict.
MR RICHARD: You now - on that day in August 1987, how did you come into contact with Mr Mazizi, what were you and your comrades doing?
...(END OF TAPE)
MR VILAKAZI: ...(no translation)
CHAIRPERSON: Just - I'm sorry Mr Vilakazi.
INTERPRETER: Sorry about that Chairperson.
CHAIRPERSON: Just a minute. Somehow there was some technical hitch. You'll just have to retreat.
MR RICHARD: He'll just have to start again.
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, not altogether, just deal with what happened.
MR VILAKAZI: On that day following the Zulu tradition there was this ceremony at Joel's home and we had gathered there as comrades and we chanted slogans. We went out of the homestead chanting slogans and when we came to a certain corner, we saw the deceased standing at a corner in the other street. On seeing us they fled into a shebeen. We pursued them into the shebeen because we could see him because of his conspicuous nature and we stabbed him and we hurled stones at him and we left him there. That's how we fled.
MR RICHARD: Now you talk of a ceremony at Joel's home, what ceremony was that?
MR VILAKAZI: In our culture of aMaZulu, there is this what we call the cleansing culture, the cleansing ceremony.
MR RICHARD: Now I am correct in saying Joel had died on the 25th of December the year before?
MR VILAKAZI: That is correct.
MR RICHARD: And so you were remembering your fallen comrade that day?
MR VILAKAZI: Not necessarily, but it was a domestic affair. Joel's family affair, a cleansing ceremony belonging to the family.
MR RICHARD: Now were you personally involved in any of the other incidents? Did you personally take part in them and do anything physically?
MR VILAKAZI: No, I was never involved in any other incident except for this one.
MR RICHARD: Now did you know about the other incidents?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes.
MR RICHARD: What was your reaction to the incidents when you heard about them?
MR VILAKAZI: It was very difficult times, you know, but everything that my comrades did, even though they did it in my absence was the right thing to do because I would also suffer the same fate had I come across the other group.
MR RICHARD: So did you associate with what your comrades had done?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, I associate myself with that.
MR RICHARD: Now two further questions, very short ones. Do you agree or disagree with my proposition that at that time during 1987 you and your comrades saw the Eastern MG Football Club, it's members and supporters, as supporters of the apartheid councillors, the apartheid Government and opposed to the struggle?
MR VILAKAZI: That is correct because in one incident when we were at a night vigil for comrade Mati, these people who were in the company of Sgt Meyer arrived and attacked us. I do not know how they got ...(indistinct) to attack the MG funeral or not, so it was obvious at that time that they worked in collusion with the police.
MR RICHARD: And now my last question is, at that time in 1987, do you agree or disagree with the statement that people who were either seen to give information and to co-operate with the South African police, or thought to co-operate and collaborate with the South African police, were seen as "impimpis" and enemies of the struggle?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, they were regarded as ...(ethnic)
MR RICHARD: No further questions.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR RICHARD
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Mr Nyawuza.
MR NYAWUZA: I don't have any questions, thank you.
NO QUESTIONS BY MR NYAWUZA
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you Sir. Ms Mtanga?
MS MTANGA: No questions, Chairperson.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS MTANGA
CHAIRPERSON: And the Panel?
ADV BOSMAN: I have just one question, Chairperson. Mr Vilakazi can you look on page 110 of the bundle? Your lawyer can show it to you, the last paragraph of the page. You speak about an order you had, can you see that? Can you see there "order"? Is that your own handwriting?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes.
ADV BOSMAN: Now all your co-applicants said that they were office bearers, but you only say you were a member. If you turn to page 106 (7) (b), you say you were a member of the UDF and then you speak about an order, from whom did you get the order? Who gave you the order?
MR VILAKAZI: As a UDF member, I was in the company of other comrades on the 3rd of January when this matter was discussed, that was the issue of killing or attacking an MG member of supporter.
ADV BOSMAN: Did you participate in the decision of the 3rd of January? I just want to clear up the word order, because we've got it on paper here. So you participated in the decision and you regarded the decision as an order, is that how you saw it? Do you understand the question or must I put it to you again?
MR VILAKAZI: No, I do not quite understand.
ADV BOSMAN: Okay, I'll ask you again. You say you were also present on the 3rd of January when the decision was taken, okay, and did you regard this decision as an order? Is that why you say order on page 110?
MR VILAKAZI: Yes, that is how I regarded it, I had to follow the decision.
ADV BOSMAN: Thank you.
MS MTANGA: Chairperson, if I may just bring it to the attention of the Committee, on page 11(a), there was a question put in the Request for Further Particulars, number 4, where it was asked: "Who in the ANC gave them orders" and his response on page 112, the same number, number 4, he says
"No one from the ANC gave the orders. We as the applicants, as members of the UDF, locally gave such orders."
CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Thank you Ms Mtanga. Yes thank you. Yes, Mr Richard?
MR RICHARD: No further questions.
NO RE-EXAMINATION BY MR RICHARD
CHAIRPERSON: Yes, thank you very much. Mr Vilakazi, thank you. You are excused.
WITNESS EXCUSED
CHAIRPERSON: Yes Mr Richard?
MR RICHARD: The last is Mandla ...(indistinct - background noise)
