JUDGE POTGIETER: You are Phinda Walter Kweyama, is that right?
PHINDA WALTER KWEYAMA: (sworn states)
EXAMINATION BY MR PANDAY: Thank you. Mr Kweyama, is it correct that you had originally applied for indemnity relating to a robbery that took place at the Isipingo gun shop on the 22nd of April 1993?
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: And is it also correct that you had then received correspondence from the Department of Justice, advising that you would all have to wait for the promulgation of an Act, in order to entertain those applications?
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: Now after having applied for indemnity, did you thereafter fill out an application form for amnesty?
MR KWEYAMA: That is correct.
MR PANDAY: And what did you do with that form after having filled it out?
MR KWEYAMA: I gave it to prison warders to forward it to the TRC.
MR PANDAY: And since having forwarded that application to the TRC, did you receive any correspondence thereafter from the TRC?
MR KWEYAMA: No, I did not receive any correspondence, except for one I recently received when I was already out of prison.
MR PANDAY: When you say you didn't receive any correspondence and you only recently received - I lost the interpretation there.
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, when I was in the prison I didn't get any letter from TRC.
MR PANDAY: Then how did you come to be appearing at the applications, amnesty applications?
INTERPRETER: Please repeat that question.
MR KWEYAMA: I had submitted a form in terms of amnesty.
MR PANDAY: And you said that you received no correspondence thereafter until you were released.
CHAIRPERSON: I think he said he did receive correspondence lately, after his release.
MR PANDAY: What I'm queering, Mr Chairman, is as to what correspondence did he receive.
CHAIRPERSON: Was that the correspondence that told you about this application?
MR KWEYAMA: That is correct.
MR PANDAY: Thank you, Mr Chairman.
Mr Kweyama, is it correct that in respect of the armed robbery at the Isipingo gun shop, you were convicted and sentenced to a term of 6 years.
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: And you have served that term of imprisonment.
MR KWEYAMA: That is correct.
MR PANDAY: Mr Kweyama, at the time of the robbery, did you belong to any political organisation?
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: And in what capacity were you part - sorry, what was your political organisation called?
MR KWEYAMA: I was the member of the ANC and an activist.
MR PANDAY: And did you have any membership card?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, before I was a UDF, ...(indistinct)
MR PANDAY: And then thereafter you joined the ANC.
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Now do you recall your ANC membership number?
MR KWEYAMA: No, I don't recall it.
MR PANDAY: If I have to show you on page - just bear with me, on page 52 you reflect a membership card number: 1878511.
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Would that be your ANC membership number at the time?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Okay. Now as a member of the ANC, what sort of position did you hold, or job designation did you hold with the ANC?
MR KWEYAMA: I did not hold a position, but I was an active person within the ANC.
MR PANDAY: When you mention active, what sort of activity did you engage in?
MR KWEYAMA: I participated in all matters relating to ANC, as I was also a member of the SDU.
MR PANDAY: Now in particular the event that took place on the 22nd of April of 1993, you've heard the evidence that was tendered by Mr Shangase, do you confirm firstly, that that was a true account of the events, that he tendered?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, I do. On the 22nd of April 1993, I was the driver of the vehicle that we were going to use to rob the gun shop. We left early in the morning so that we were there prior to the opening of the shop. My co-applicants alighted the vehicle and I remain in the vehicle. I did not see them whilst they were inside the shop, but I just waited for them to signal for me when they had completed the job.
MR PANDAY: Now Mr Shangase mentioned that you were designated as the driver, can you confirm who designated your position as the driver?
MR KWEYAMA: It was the Unit Commander, Sipho Mgadi.
MR PANDAY: And on that day in question were you also armed?
MR KWEYAMA: No.
MR PANDAY: And after having completed the robbery, do you confirm that you all had then driven off to deliver the weapons to a person in charge?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, I drove the vehicle. On arrival at kwaMakutha I dropped the other four and we went to drop the car at Unit 6, where I had been instructed to leave it.
CHAIRPERSON: Where did you get the car from that day?
MR KWEYAMA: It was parked outside a certain house in Unit 6 at kwaMakutha.
MR PANDAY: And who was supposed to have given you this motor vehicle?
MR KWEYAMA: It was Mfanafigele Mkhize who handed over the keys to me.
MR PANDAY: Do you know how the motor vehicle was obtained?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, I do. Mr Msani and Mfanafigele Mkhize were the people who acquired the vehicle.
MR PANDAY: When you say they acquired the vehicle, do you know exactly how ...(intervention)
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, I know they robbed the car from Isipingo.
MR PANDAY: Right, you need to be specific so they know exactly what took place. Now you say they robbed the car, was it Msani by himself or was he acting in concert with others?
MR KWEYAMA: He was in the company of Mfanafigele Mkhize.
MR PANDAY: And do you know what has become of Mfanafigele Mkhize now?
MR KWEYAMA: Mr Mkhize passed away when he was still in the prison.
MR PANDAY: Now Mr Kweyama, after having completed the robbery at the gun shop, did you in any way benefit financially?
MR KWEYAMA: No, we did not benefit anything financially. So what we did benefit about is we get the guns we want to protect the community.
MR PANDAY: Now you say you benefited by getting the guns to protect the community.
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Now what would you say was the political objective by having completed the robbery, or having partaken in the robbery, that you hoped to have achieved.
MR KWEYAMA: It was to strengthen our organisation, as well as to protect members of the community. It was our duty to protect the ANC community, that is why we needed those firearms.
MR PANDAY: Now you've heard the evidence of Mr Shangase, he stated that there was violence in the area between the IFP and the ANC.
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: They were also being attacked by the KZ Police, KwaZulu Police, would you also confirm that as well?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, we were attacked day and night by the KwaZulu Police.
MR PANDAY: Now what sort of justification would you equate to your act by robbing the gun shop? In relation to your political objective. After having ... Why would you say that you were justified in robbing the gun shop?
MR KWEYAMA: I would state that we needed firearms because we were under attack from the IFP and the KwaZulu Police. Were it not for that fact we would not have required those firearms.
MR PANDAY: If you all did not acquire firearms, what would have happened to the community in kwaMakutha? The ANC community.
MR KWEYAMA: If we didn't get those firearms the place would have become an IFP stronghold.
MR PANDAY: So is it to be assumed that you were protecting the interest of the ANC in the area?
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: Now on the day in question, when you all went to attack this gun shop, were you all acting under orders or did you all decide wilfully to do it?
MR KWEYAMA: We were following orders from the Unit Commander, Mr Sipho Mgadi.
MR PANDAY: And is it correct that he issued the order to have this place robbed for the weapons?
MR KWEYAMA: That is correct.
MR PANDAY: Now Mr Kweyama, do you know what was taken from the gun shop, specifically?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Can you account for us what was taken?
MR KWEYAMA: It was 11 pistols as well as 5 magazines.
MR PANDAY: Now I'm going to refer you to page, I think it's 47 - sorry, it's not page 47, Mr Kweyama, just bear with me, on page 28. Now on page 28 the first heading
"List of stolen firearms"
there's a whole list of items that are listed as being stolen, now do you confirm that there was only 11 firearms and 5 magazines stolen.
MR KWEYAMA: Yes.
MR PANDAY: Now do you have any idea of these items that are being mentioned herein?
MR KWEYAMA: I've no idea of where these other items emanated from.
MR PANDAY: And the cash that they specifically talk about?
MR KWEYAMA: I bear no knowledge about that amount of money because I did not see any cash.
MR PANDAY: Was there money taken?
MR KWEYAMA: No.
MR PANDAY: Now do you know what weapons were recovered?
MR KWEYAMA: It was the three firearms recovered from myself, Mr Shangase and Mr Mkhize, as well as another one recovered from Dumisani, which was not robbed from that shop.
MR PANDAY: And the live rounds and magazines they also list over there: 3 x 9mm ...(intervention)
MR KWEYAMA: I bear no knowledge about that.
MR PANDAY: Mr Kweyama, after having completed your robbery, Mr Shangase testified that you all reached a designated point and the weapons were handed over for safekeeping, would that be correct?
MR KWEYAMA: That is correct, they were handed over to Mfanafigele Mkhize, who would get into contact with the Commander, Mr Mgadi.
MR PANDAY: And did you all keep any weapons for yourselves?
MR KWEYAMA: No.
MR PANDAY: Or did you receive weapons later?
MR KWEYAMA: Yes, after about three days we did receive some firearms.
MR PANDAY: Now Mr Kweyama, would you therefore state that your sole motive for having robbed this gun shop was purely to obtain weapons for the protection from the attacks that were being launched against the community, specifically the ANC community?
MR KWEYAMA: That's correct.
MR PANDAY: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that's it.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS BY MR PANDAY
MS THABETHE: No questions, Mr Chair.
NO QUESTIONS BY MS THABETHE
CHAIRPERSON: Thank you.
WITNESS EXCUSED
MR PANDAY: That is the evidence of Mr Kweyama, Mr Chairman and that leaves us with the last applicants, that's Mr Mkhize.
