| Time | Summary | |
| 01:19 | ‘Qaqawuli Godolozi. Murdered May 1985’ // Sipho Hashe. Murdered May 1985 // Champion Galela. Murdered May 1985.’ | Full Transcript |
| 02:00 | In April last year the widows of these three men asked the Human Rights Violations Committee to find out what had happened to their husbands since their disappearance in 1985. This week they got some answers. Former Eastern Cape Security Policemen Harold Snyman, Hermanus du Plessis, Johan van Zyl, Gideon Niewoudt and Gerhardus Lotz are asking for amnesty for the murder of the Pebco Three. Vlakplaas operatives Roelf Venter, Gert Beeslaar, Kimpani Mogoai and Johannes Koole are applying for their abduction. | Full Transcript and References |
| 02:36 | Sipho Hashe, my husband, was in Robben Island. He was arrested 1963 and came back 1973. And they gave him five years banning order, or registration I don’t remember which one is it now, but it was five years. He couldn’t even go out to the near school there. After my husband get through this, the banning order, Pebco was there. Then, after they co-opted him to the Pebco my husband started to organise. They used to take a loudspeaker going up and down in each and every street in Port Elizabeth, telling the people that there is a meeting at Dan Qeqe, using also Rio and the other halls. | Full Transcript |
| 03:40 | He was an organizer in the Pebco. He helped the people. I remember one time there is the people who have no place to stay in those shacks far away, like Dan Qeqe. So they take those people to here in Rio hall here and then he’d always cook soup for those people, every day they are going to fetch food in the shops for those people. | Full Transcript |
| 04:12 | My husband was active in Pebco and active in politics. The Pebco was trying to solve the community’s problems and there were a lot of problems at that moment. And he was involved too much in politics. He used to tell me about his father; his fighting for the rights of the people and the oppression in this country. And even him, he’s involved about those things. | Full Transcript |
| 05:04 | I think it was ’83 if I’m not mistaken; take ’83, ’84, ’85, Pebco was up. The Dan Qeqe Stadium, you wouldn’t even have space to walk there - if you know Dan Qeqe Stadium - if they called a meeting. | Full Transcript |
| 05:27 | The Port Elizabeth Black Civics Organisation (PEBCO) was launched in 1979. By the stormy mid eighties it had become the main force for resistance and street level organisation in the Eastern Cape. Hashe, Godolozi and Galela were prominent Pebco leaders at the time. | Full Transcript |
| 05:48 | Pebco in the Eastern Cape was the father of Civic Movement and its links and growth thereafter in terms of the Civic Movement is nationally recognized to the founder of the Civic Movement at national level. | Full Transcript |
| 06:02 | We’re coming as an alternative force and then we have to prove to the people that we are indeed an alternative force, and then we had to do it by means of demanding and pressurizing the government. | Full Transcript |
| 06:16 | We are operating above ground. We are as transparent as anything. Accounting in public meetings, making public press statements and press conferences. We had exposed every activity that we are engaged in and you could read without any much effort, didn’t need much brain to realize that this is a mass mobilization. These are civic issues. These are political civic issues we were there to express. We were never armed, but we were treated like terrorists. | Full Transcript |
| 06:52 | Port Elizabeth was ungovernable. And I want to go even further and say that Pebco was in control here. // The activists were winning the war, or had already done so. There was feedback from the secretariat, the Security Council, which was received by the JMC to the effect that the government was insisting that the Eastern Cape is stabilized and that a solution be found. It was the security branch which had to deal with that primarily; they had to stabilize the situation. And then I had the chance to have a chat to Minister Louis Le Grange and as I said earlier in my submission to them, we discussed the fact that the normal legal methods of policing were no longer effective and the minister said to me very clearly. Colonel, you have to make a plan with these activists in the Eastern Cape. | Full Transcript |
| 07:57 | Snyman interpreted his conversation with Minister Le Grange as sanction to eliminate activists. Colonel Hermanus du Plessis came to him and said they’d run out of legal options to contain militants in the Port Elizabeth area. Du Plessis suggested that the only option was elimination. Snyman did not oppose the idea. | Full Transcript |
| 08:22 | Col Snyman did not give a direct instruction but he did say that he realized that there were no other options, that nothing else did work and that I had to proceed and do the best I could in the interest of the country. // And you interpreted that as instruction to go ahead and eliminate. Is that correct? // Yes. | Full Transcript |
| 08:52 | The fact that Col Du Plessis told me that he had discussed it with Col Snyman created the impression with me that if it came from Snyman then it most probably came from even higher authority. | Full Transcript |
| 09:12 | I spoke to Capt van Zyl. I believe after all the years that it took place in my office. At that stage I also spoke to Capt Niewoudt and explained to them what the problem was that we were faced with. I can just mention that Mr. Niewoudt and Mr. Van Zyl at that stage were completely aware of the activities of Pebco. // Is it your evidence that these three people, the so-called Pebco Three, that they were extremely dangerous? // That is correct. | Full Transcript |
| 10:04 | The purpose as I can remember was to remove the three activists from society so that they could no longer participate effectively in organisation and be either directly or indirectly responsible for the unrest in the townships. // Even if he had removed some radicals there were other radical leaders and members of Pebco that were alive at the time, not so? // That is correct. // Is it also not correct that Pebco formed a constituent of UDF which was the umbrella body? There were other radical political organisations like COSAS and COSATU, which had radical members. So, eliminating a specific grouping like Pebco leaders would have been inconsequential or futile. Would you agree with me? // No I don’t agree. // Explain why you don’t because you did not mention that in your application. You said you wanted to regain the initiative, but is it not correct that after the disappearance was made public and known in the media there were protests for the release or the revelation of the ...more | Full Transcript and References |
| 12:25 | It was at this airport in Port Elizabeth that Norman Fesi, a baggage handler claims that he saw Hashe, Galela and Godolozi get abducted by policemen in 1985. // That day I saw Godolozi come here, and Galela and Hashe and then it was a long time they were waiting inside. They were standing here at that time, watching all that time; they go out… the police all together. After that, the following day, I report for the UDF offices; I wanted to know the personal office because Godolozi and Hashe the police has taken them. | Full Transcript |
| 13:06 | The applicants contradict each other on the purpose of the abduction. The askaris and policemen from Vlakplaas whose applications will be heard this week will say they were abducting the Pebco Three for the purpose of interrogation. They also say they did not know of the elimination plan. | Full Transcript and References |
| 13:24 | And do you believe that the murder of the Pebco Three was warranted. // At that stage yes. | Full Transcript |
| 13:34 | Snyman and Du Plessis were not there when the three were executed. The sequence of the executions was reported by Van Zyl who says after their abduction the men were taken to Post Chalmers, a disused police station in Cradock. The next day, May the ninth they were fed, drugged, shot dead and their bodies burned to ashes. | Full Transcript |
