| Time | Summary | |
| 17:22 | This charge against Paul Verryn seems to have been the trigger for the assaults and murders. Xoliswa Falati was the housekeeper in Paul Verryn’s household and helped to abduct the boys after Cebekhulu told her that he had been raped. They were taken to Winnie Mandela’s house. | Full Transcript |
| 17:37 | Were assaults perpetrated on this occasion, on these boys that were brought from the manse? // She actually started to hit Kenny. She said Kenny must stand up and then she asked questions. Why are you submitting to a white man? Then she started to hit Kenny and then saying that you’re not fit to live, fit to be alive. // What happened after that? // She hit the others. She hit Kenny then when Kenny tried to block the fists then the other comrades at Mandela’s place, that is the football club, held Kenny on both hands so that he couldn’t block the fists from Mrs. Mandela. // Did you participate in the assaults on … // So after that hell broke out. They were beaten. I never participated. I was ordered by Mrs. Mandela to go and sing. After singing, because everybody was just beating and beating and actually singing, because I was a bit scared and puzzled. What is, are these supposed victims, are these the ones who are supposed to be beaten? Because those were victims of sexual ...more | Full Transcript and References |
| 19:40 | Falati also claimed that she was told where the bodies are of some of the other children who disappeared. // Is it correct that you accompanied John Morgan to a certain place where certain pointings out were made? // And he told me that there’s a plantation and there was this mineshaft and Lolo Sono, Sbu Tshabalala, a certain guy from Zola - a guy who disappeared from Zola and Koekie Zwane - a certain young girl who was Zindzi’s friend is inside … the grave is somewhere here. A shallow grave, they didn’t put that one into the mineshaft but it was buried somewhere, just next to there. But the other three, the other people, are right in that mineshaft and I would like the TRC to go and extract those bodies. That is the big job that still awaits the TRC. | Full Transcript and References |
| 20:44 | Falati has however been accused by Winnie Mandela of also being involved in human rights violations. // My hands are not dripping with the blood of the African children. I’ve never compromised my comrades. I’ve never even compromised her. I went to prison for her as my leader. // She in effect blames you for their assault and Stompie’s death because you provided the information which led to the assault. What do you have to … // Well you know she regards herself as a … she dehumanizes a person, she reduces a person to nothing. She regards herself as a demigod. She regards herself as a super being. She wants everybody must cover her up by all means. She orders. There are comrades who were taken from their places, the witnesses, to be bribed – they refused – who are going to testify here. Because she wants to be clean all the time, because she regards herself as a demigod. Unquestioning submission corrupts leaders and demeans followers, making a cult out of a leader is ...more | Full Transcript |
| 23:50 | Ketiza Cebekhulu has since become famous. He was the central character in a book and a BBC documentary. He skipped the country before he had to testify against Madikizela-Mandela. He was rescued by British baroness Emma Nicholson who has since taken him under her wing. Cebekhulu was the one who first talked about sexual molestation. | Full Transcript and References |
| 24:11 | I’m the one who made the allegation by Mrs. Mandela’s order that Paul raped me. // Cebekhulu also had firsthand knowledge of what happened to Lolo Sono. | Full Transcript |
| 24:22 | There was a day in November that you were telling the Commission that an assault took place on Lolo Sono. Correct? // Yes. // Who were the people that participated in the assault? // It was Mrs. Mandela and Richardson and others. // Which particular person inflicted an injury to Mr. Sono and how was that injury inflicted? What did you see? // When I entered the garage it was Mrs. Mandela holding a sjambok. She was whipping Lolo Sono and Richardson, he was standing kicking and the other, the Mandela Football Team, they were surrounding. // Yes? // I didn’t take the beating and then I went inside and then they said Lolo Sono walk with the police, he’s a spy. | Full Transcript |
| 25:16 | Cebekhulu’s evidence on the assault on the four activists on 29 December 1989 also corroborated that given earlier by Pelo Mekgwe and Xoliswa Falati. // I brought a sjambok and then I handed it over to Mrs. Mandela and then she whipped Stompie. She’s the first to whip Stompie. She’s said he’s sleeping with the white man and Stompie, he walked with the police. And Mrs. Mandela started to whip them and took their foot and the hands and they lift him up and then dropped him on the floor. | Full Transcript |
| 25:46 | And then Cebekhulu came to his dramatic evidence of what he says was Stompie Seipei’s last moments. // I saw Richardson coming from this point to the other direction holding something in his hand. // Was Mrs. Mandela anywhere nearby? // She was standing right next to the Jacuzzi and Richardson put the person here and I saw Mandela’s wife, raising up her hands twice. // What did she have in her hand? // It was something that was shining. // After the hand was raised for the first time, did you see what … // She was stabbing, she stabbed twice. | Full Transcript |
| 26:53 | Your mother tells us whilst you were in Hammersdale you used to have friends of members of the police. Is she correct? // No. // Your mother is not telling the truth? // I did not have any police friends, I did know a lot of police but I was not friends with them. // Is your mother not telling the truth is my question? // I don’t know. I wish she was here, I’d ask her. | Full Transcript |
| 27:53 | ‘Day three Wednesday 26 November 1997’ // Madikizela-Mandela appeared relaxed and confident when she arrived at the hearing on Wednesday morning. She greeted old comrades warmly and seemed determined to show the world that there were no hard feelings between herself and Truth Commission Chairperson Desmond Tutu. But minutes later Madikizela-Mandela was back in the hot seat, this time listening to the damning evidence of Thabiso Mono, one of the four young activists whom she and her football club had kidnapped and assaulted. Mono corroborated earlier evidence that Madikizela-Mandela, whom he referred to as Mommy, had participated in the assault on the young comrades. | Full Transcript |
| 28:33 | When she arrived in the room she questioned us, why we allowed a white priest to sleep with us. We did not approve of that and then she asked Stompie why was Stompie selling the people? Stompie disagreed with that kind of information and then she started hitting us with fists, one by one. After that the whole group joined in the assault. // After you were assaulted with fists what happened? // They kicked us, they lifted us up and we were thrown to the ground. After some time they started hitting us with sjamboks. // Who started hitting you with sjamboks? // Mrs. Mandela started hitting me with a sjambok. We were lying down. // Mrs. Madikizela-Mandela has said that on the day in question she was in Brandfort. Can you comment on that? // I do not know what to say. I saw her. She was the person who assaulted us with fists and hitting us with sjamboks. I don’t know which Mrs. Mandela was in Brandfort. | Full Transcript and References |
| 29:54 | Mono denied that Paul Verryn had ever molested him or any of the boys who had stayed at the manse. Verryn, who is now a Bishop in the Methodist Church, was given a special welcome by Archbishop Desmond Tutu when he took the stand. | Full Transcript |
| 30:07 | We are aware too of the anguish through which you have had to pass over so many years and in a way, although we’re still going to hear your testimony, it is wonderful that you had been vindicated. | Full Transcript |
| 30:25 | In the manse in December 1988 there were various people given refuge. Correct? // That is correct. // They included Katiza Cebekhulu, Stompie Seipei, Pelo Mekgwe, Thabiso Mono and Kenny Kgase. // That is correct. // Did you ever rape any of those people? // No. // Did you ever sexually molest any of those people? // No. // Did you ever engage in any sexual activity with those people? // No. // Did you ever make sexual advances to them? // No. // In the second half of 1988 there was an incident when certain people in the manse accused Stompie of being an informer. Do you remember that? // I do remember that. // Could you tell us about the incident? // I returned home one evening and there was a gathering in the kitchen and Stompie was being interrogated. That’s the way I interpreted what was going on. He was sitting with his head in his hands and he was crying and I actually didn’t take any time with that. I immediately intervened and called Mrs. Falati out and said that under no ...more | Full Transcript and References |
| 32:02 | Bishop Verryn told the Truth Commission that the youths had been abducted from his mission house while he’d been on holiday. For the first time in the eight years since Stompie’s death Bishop Verryn apologised to the boy’s mother for not having done enough to keep him safe. | Full Transcript |
| 32:16 | I see that Mrs. Seipei is in the audience here today and the thing that has been most difficult for me is that having heard the allegations I did not remove him from the mission house and get him to a place where he could be safe and I think if I acted in another way he could be alive today. And so I want to apologise to Mrs. Seipei for my part in that. // The other person about whom you requested an opportunity to express your feelings is Mrs. Madikizela-Mandela. // I don’t know Mrs. Mandela really. We’ve met face to face briefly in my mission house once. And my feelings about you have taken me in many directions as you can imagine. I long for our reconciliation. I have been profoundly, profoundly affected by some of the things you have said about me, that have hurt me and cut me to the quick. I’ve had to struggle to come to some place of learning to forgive, even if you do not want forgiveness or even think that I deserve to offer that to you. I struggle to find a way in which ...more | Full Transcript |
| 35:47 | Next was Methodist Bishop Peter Storey who had been involved in trying to secure the release of the four kidnapped youths. Bishop Storey provided the Commission with details and diary entries, which gave a blow by blow account of events around the whole kidnapping drama. | Full Transcript |
| 36:05 | At the funeral of Stompie I said that his death was an unspeakable crime and that these past few weeks have probed beneath the surface of South Africa’s shame over these past couple of years. The primary cancer may be and was and will always be the apartheid oppression, but that secondary infections have touched many of apartheid’s opponents and eroded their knowledge of good and evil. And one of the tragedies of life say it is possible to become like that which we hate most and I have a feeling that this drama is an example of that. | Full Transcript and References |
| 36:55 | And then members of the now defunct Mandela Crisis Committee, Frank Chikane, Sydney Mufamadi, Aubrey Makoena, Beyers Naude and sister Barnard Ncube, all prominent veterans of the struggle told the Truth Commission that they had failed in their attempts to end the reign of terror of Madikizela’s football club. Cebekhulu’s lawyer put it to the Crisis Committee that they had been forced to send a memo to the then leader of the ANC, Oliver Tambo asking him to intervene in securing the release of the boys, because the Committee had no influence over Madikizela-Mandela. | Full Transcript and References |
