| Time | Summary | |
| 44:37 | When the chair turned, it was Mrs Mandela. I met Mrs Mandela face to face. I wanted to open the door and run. It was too late. When I turned I couldn’t see Morgan. I got confused. She said take a seat. I sat down. She said how are you? I said fine. I got scared. I didn’t know what was going to happen now. She said did you tell the police? I said no. She said listen Katiza, you need to choose. Either I get you to Swaziland; I give you an education, a house, everything, if you stay there. If you don’t agree, you tell me. I’ll deal with you right now. | Full Transcript |
| 45:30 | ANC security immediately smuggled Katiza to Swaziland. He was passed on through ANC bases in Mozambique and Angola to Lusaka, the capital of Zambia. Here, Zambian intelligence took charge. There was no education as promised by Winnie. For a house, Katiza was given a cell here in one of Africa’s most notorious prisons, Lusaka Central. Katiza was lost to the world. Some foreign correspondents including me believed he had evidence that would have been critical at Winnie’s trial. I began to search for him. Rumour said he was in Zambia and when I went to Lusaka in 1991 to report the presidential election I made a breakthrough. I met British MP Emma Nicholson, there as an election observer. | Full Transcript |
| 46:48 | Emma Nicholson was a friend of the new President, Frederick Juluba. When he invited her to see him just two days after taking office I urged her to ask about Katiza Cebekhulu. | Full Transcript |
| 47:05 | I said it was an international problem, a humanitarian gesture that you could make. You could do something wonderful today. He said what. I said find a missing prisoner, somebody who has nothing to do with Zambia, who didn’t commit a crime here as far as I understand, who I believe is in Lusaka jail. He said I’m sure he’s not here; we don’t have people like that. I said I think you maybe and he said, well alright if you insist I’ll send out a phone call; you go away and come back later. | Full Transcript |
| 47:33 | After six months in prison, the commander came and said I should dress, as they wanted to see me. I didn’t know if they were going to free me, to kill me or hand me to Winnie. I didn’t know. | Full Transcript |
| 47:52 | The president himself came on line. Come back, Emma at once. I found your man. I am astonished that he’s here. You’ve got to come and listen to what he’s got to say. Katiza Cebekhulu wanted to tell his story. It was obvious that he never thought he would have a chance of telling it. This chance was there. He took it with both hands and he poured the whole tale out, of how he had been as it were a houseboy in Winnie Mandela’s household. And what he had seen her do. And with graphic illustration, raising his arm in the air, he brought it down with thrusts like that, saying I saw Mrs Mandela do that to Stompie. And they all went silent. | Full Transcript |
| 48:50 | The president believed Katiza would be in danger from Winnie Mandela if freed in Zambia. Emma Nicholson worked to find a safe haven for him elsewhere. As a temporary measure only, Katiza was sent back to prison for his own safety. // In South Africa meanwhile Winnie Mandela was found guilty of kidnapping Stompie Moketsi and being an accessory to assault. She was condemned to six years in prison but on appeal her sentence was reduced to a mere 3000 pound fine. In his summing up Justice Steadman had this to say. She showed herself on a number of occasions to be a calm, composed, deliberate and unblushing liar. // Despite this, Nelson Mandela stood by his wife. | Full Transcript |
| 49:46 | I have never believed that she was guilty of assaulting anyone and the judgement of the court has confirmed that position. | Full Transcript |
| 50:04 | In Zambia Katiza was still in prison, but in South Africa his countrymen were free at last. In May 1994 the black majority voted for the first time. Nelson Mandela was elected state president. // I, Nelson…Mandela, do hereby swear to be faithful to the Republic of South Africa. // Will you please raise your right hand and say, so help me God? // So help me God. | Full Transcript |
| 50:46 | While South Africa celebrated Emma Nicholson continued a prolonged struggle to find sanctuary for Katiza Cebekhulu. | Full Transcript |
| 50:56 | Every country that is an active signatory of the human rights agenda was approached and every one turned him down. John …. Turned him down despite my personal pleadings and far more importantly, despite the fact that this was human rights asylum seeker material, without a shadow of a doubt. | Full Transcript |
| 51:27 | It took Emma Nicholson three years to find a country that would take Katiza. Now in his seventh year of exile we filmed him thousands of miles from South Africa. We showed Katiza film clips of the many faces of Winnie Mandela denying her involvement in any crimes. The clips included a speech to parliament by the new ANC Deputy Minister of Culture and Science. | Full Transcript |
| 51:58 | ‘My deepest regret is that I failed Stompie that I was unable to protect him from the anarchy of those times and he was taken from my house and killed…’ // Who killed him? You are the one who killed Stompie. // ‘I am astounded that political loyalties could not stand a single test, that it could even be dreamt that I would be responsible for the murder of a child …’ // She killed, she knows she killed. // ‘…When I have spent all my life fighting against these injustices, appals me.’ // ‘I feel betrayed. The ultimate humiliation by my own people. This surely is not the South Africa I ruined my life for. It cannot be. I’m not guilty of any crime…’ // You’re guilty, because if you’re not guilty, why am I here? // ‘…Why must I be treated this way by the world media and the local media?’ | Full Transcript |
| 53:22 | This small town, 200 miles from Soweto was one good reason why. At her trial Winnie swore under oath she was here in Brandfort throughout the assaults on Stompie. Despite his doubts the judge accepted her alibi. Katiza Cebekhulu alleges the Brandfort alibi was manufactured by Winnie Mandela’s lover, Dali Mpofu. I asked Katiza if he was approached by Mpofu. | Full Transcript |
| 54:03 | Yes. He said, well, Mrs Mandela is not here. I should say she was in Brandfort that day for the beating of Stompie. They were not in Orlando (Soweto), they were out. He (Mpofu) reminded me that I should not forget in court that, on December 29, Mrs Mandela was in Brandfort. From December 29, 30, 31. | Full Transcript |
| 54:25 | John Morgan, Winnie’s driver said at her trial that she was in Brandfort. He admits he lied. // We were merely lying there. All of us. Trying to defend Mrs Mandela. I actually wanted to report the matter to the police but I thought Winnie’s comrades were going to crush me or kill me. So I decided not to say anything, just keep my gap shut. | Full Transcript |
| 54:56 | If Winnie Mandela went to Brandfort then on December the 30th she was away all that day, it was 200 miles away. Are you sure you saw her on December the 30th in Soweto? // Yes, because December 29 was the day of beating Stompie. On December 30 she took me to see Dr Asvat. So Mrs Mandela is lying. If she was 200 miles away from Johannesburg, who took me to Dr Asvat? Because when I went to Dr Asvat I went with Mrs Mandela. | Full Transcript |
| 55:35 | Winnie said she visited Dr Asvat with Katiza on the 29th of December 1988, before driving to Brandfort. But this medical card from the visit was stamped the 30th of December. People who could have confirmed the card’s accuracy and importance were not subpoenaed. One was Dr Asvat’s brother Ebrahim. | Full Transcript |
| 56:02 | The date, which is depicted here, is correct. Because this I verified on the record books as well, as the patients were entered into the record book. That also stated it was the 30th of December 1988. | Full Transcript |
| 56:16 | Albertina Sisulu, one of the ANC’s best loved leaders. She was also Dr Asvat’s receptionist and could have given decisive evidence at Winnie’s trial. She was never called to testify. | Full Transcript |
